MovieChat Forums > The Big Sleep (1946) Discussion > Who killed the chaffeur?

Who killed the chaffeur?


Hi, anybody know who killed the chaffeur, the greatest unsolved mystery in the movies? I've watched it a load of times but just can't figure it out.

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Well, the movie is a MURDER MYSTERY, and people who watch murder mysteries do
so because they like to see the murder(s) portrayed and then solved.

I was in an elevator with Lauren Bacall several years ago and found myself
staring at her. Pretty rude on my part. When I caught myself I laughed to
myself and looked down at the floor. She said, in that patented deep voice,
"Well, that makes 643 for this year." We both laughed. Then I asked her,
"By the way who did kill Owen Taylor?" To that Miss Bacall said, "I don't
know. Nobody knows. Not even Chandler knew."

"Could be worse."
"Howwww?"
"Could be raining."

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Marlowe asks the key question to Brody- "How did you get the picture?" He HAD to have taken it from the camera himself. He, Lundgren and Geiger were photographing the drugged Carmen. Taylor then had to have burst in and shot Geiger to "protect" Carmen. (Yet his splintering of the window frame was not heard? Let that one go.)
After Geiger is shot, and Taylor drives off in the Packard, the station wagon can be seen IMMEDIATELY behind it. Lundgren has to be in it. He follows Taylor (why is he going all the way to Lido Pier?) and does him in there. This was a crime of passion. Before Marlowe enters, Brody just has time to take the photo (but is not cool enough to take the real treasure, the book of clients) and quietly slips off.

Your final paragraph then make perfect sense if Mars knew nothing about the killing of Taylor (and Lundgren's mental state). Lundgren's decision to kill Brody was nothing to do with Eddie Mars- Lundgren did it to stop Brody talking about his (Lundgren's) involvement.

This is tighter I think.

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I just saw this for the first time last week, on a new print at the cinema.

And it seems quite clear that it was the leather-jacketed punk who did the chauffeur in, basically because he was told to.

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Who by? His boss was dead.

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Not until after he'd given him the instruction.

I'm trying to remember this from the flicks a month ago, so apologies if that's not the case.

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Carmen Sternwood did it. That girl was up to no good. She's kinda pretty though... But not like her sister...

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Carmen killed Sean Regan.

However, this thread is asking about Owen Taylor, the Sternwood chauffeur whose body was in the car that the police recovered off the end of the pier. Carmen most certainly did not kill Owen. He was killed during the time that Marlowe was taking the stoned-out-of-her-mind Carmen out of Geiger's house and dropping her off back at home.

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vwhelan asked
> Hi, anybody know who killed the chaffeur, the greatest
> unsolved mystery in the movies? I've watched it a load
> of times but just can't figure it out.

See the imdb Q&A section of this movie:

"Who killed the chauffeur?

Neither the movie nor the book tells. It's rumored that even author Raymond Chandler had no idea when that question was put to him by the screenwriters. Those who have seen the movie and/or read the book are split over it being (1) Brody, (2) Lundgren, or (3) that the chauffeur killed himself."

I personally think the Butler did it (just like the cliché) during a phallic coup d'etat, fueled by interstitial melancholia and the occasional jazzy syncopated riff.

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The butler, Norris, did it. With the candlestick. In the conservatory. He was obviously infatuated with Carmen, what with her running round the house in a short skirt and poppy socks. He'd bashed off so many alone in his bedroom, he thought he might as well bash off a few in reallife, as well. Admittedly, I can't prove it, but, then again, can you prove it never happened?

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I remember reading that the Cohen brothers had a similar difficulty when they were making Miller's Crossing. It was such a problem for them that they stopped working on it and made Barton Fink instead, to give themselves time to figure it out.

Well, their solution was brilliant:

Tom Reagan: "Why did Mink bump Rug?"

Bernie Bernbaum: "I don't know, it was a mistake.. a mixup, I guess."



So, I am satisfied knowing that we don't know who killed the chaffeur. Especially since the author didn't know either.


Norm
(each of the theories proposed in the posts above are intriguing, but none of them hold up when you look at the big picture - or... maybe it was Chief Inspector Bernie Ohis?)

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>>>>"Who killed the chauffeur?

Neither the movie nor the book tells. It's rumored that even author Raymond Chandler had no idea when that question was put to him by the screenwriters. Those who have seen the movie and/or read the book are split over it being (1) Brody, (2) Lundgren, or (3) that the chauffeur killed himself." <<<<

You know, I call BS on this tale that the screenwriters contacted Chandler who didn't know who killed the chauffeur. What's the mystery, because it's right there in the book - p. 118 "Owen Taylor, driver of the Lido Pier Suicide Car" is a headline Marlow reads in the paper. On p. 112 Marlow is talking to some cops and the DA he says "the Hollywood Division has two murders on it's hands, both solved.". Geiger is one murder, by Taylor, and Brody is the other, by Lundgren. Taylor the chauffeur is a suicide, the only evidence otherwise was the sap on the head, and Brody's story tells us how that happened and that Taylor was still alive after it happened.

Remember Owen Taylor burst into Geiger's house to protect Carmen, killed Geiger to protect Carmen, took the photo plate from the camera to protect Carmen, but DIDN'T TAKE CARMEN. From a room with a dead guy. The only assumption can be she didn't want to go, which makes his "protection" totally moot. When Joe Brody caught him, sapped him, and took the photograph the evening's disaster was complete, which is the reason Chandler provides for Taylor to drive himself off the pier in the car he was going to be accused of stealing. Hard not find that explanation if your looking for one.

What I can't believe is:

1. Why any observant reader of the book, like any Hollywood scriptwriter, can't come up with this explanation, and

2. Why Chandler would deny a solution - he was either very forgetful, drunk, or having a jolly. Chandler telling someone to read the book when asked about a plot point sounds like him. Chandler calling someone to admit his book had a plot hole doesn't.

But the whole tale itself just sounds to me like a producer who half-read the book talking to a studio head who hadn't read it at all - "What's the plot, Harry?" (producer in CYA mode) 'Too complicated for me. I even asked Chandler, and he didn't know!". Another explanation is that Owen Taylor's suicide to escape criminal justice would have been a film code violation, so some PR guy is covering for the plot hole the movie has by blaming it on the book.

Anyone know the source of this story of contacting Chandler? Seems fishy to me. Was this tale told while he was alive?.

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didn't know that about chandler. cool stuff.



Where there's smoke, there's barbecue!

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Watching the movie I thought it might have been Canino that killed Taylor since he was really the only flat out killer type in the film and Mars' main hitman. Brody was too much of a small time punk to kill anyone.

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I take it from the info I've read on this film that the lack of answer to the who killed the chaffeur question was unintentional, but in an indirect way it is part of the film's charm. In life rarely is it that all loose ends get tied up, and another aspect of that is that the film doesn't speak to what happens to the couple. No real indication of a long term relationship, although I do think one is possible. Another is what happens to Carmen? Is she really past the kinds of troubles she had in the film and before it started?

Perhaps others can think of other loose ends, but these sort of work for me.

Great great film.

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The book doesn’t reveal (that I recall, it’s been a few months since I read it) who killed Owen Taylor – but if you read it, you’ll discover what a vicious little turd Carmen Sternwood really was. I couldn't agree more, though: Quirky as it may be, the film (both versions, actually) really works - so long as you don't ask too many questions!

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Part of the problem is the only things we know about Owen (The chauffeur) are:

1) He took the Packard without permission.
2) He was in love with Carmen.
3) He shot Geiger. Grabbed the film from the camera.

Now where it gets interesting is Joe Brody. Brody knows Carmen gets into trouble, and has blackmailed her before.
So he followed Owen. Said himself he played "Copper" and pulled him over and sapped him.

So the real question is. Was Owen drunk when he killed Geiger because he knew what games he was playing?
If he was drunk, did he wake up from getting knocked out. and being groggy he crashed the Packard into Lido Pier?
Or was he concussed from the sap, and crashed?
Or in a dazed state tried to drive, blacked out and crashed the car?
Or when he was passed out did Brody set the throttle, let the vehicle drive and crash into the pier.

Brody did get the negatives from Owen, we know that. He admits to sapping Owen.
He also seemed pretty rattled trying to explain to Marlowe. He was just gunned down before he could reveal what happened.

But clearly Brody has something to do with Owen's death.

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If he was drunk, did he wake up from getting knocked out. and being groggy he crashed the Packard into Lido Pier?
Or was he concussed from the sap, and crashed?
Or in a dazed state tried to drive, blacked out and crashed the car?
Or when he was passed out did Brody set the throttle, let the vehicle drive and crash into the pier.

You missed a possibility.

Owen might have woken up, realized that:

He had committed murder.
He hadn't been particularly careful.
There was at least one witness (besides Carmen) who could connect him to it.
He hadn't even succeeded in securing the photos to protect Carmen.

And then purposely driven off the pier to commit suicide.

In fact, since he made it all the way out to the end of the pier before going off, I would consider the suicide possibility more likely than the dazed / concussed / groggy accident possibilities.

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I think you may have stumbled on to the explanation here -- the Hayes code.

According to the code murderers must be made to pay for their sins. Owen Taylor murdered Geiger, right? He died in the book right? So, logically speaking, keeping him dead would be the expedient option for the screenwriters. I mean the other option -- having him arrested -- would require a rewrite of the already convoluted book plot. Whether he died by his own hand or not was immaterial to the film as long as he is punished badly enough not to stop the showing of the film for Hayes Code violations.

And Chandler would have cared less one way or the other. His complaint about the English Murder Mystery tradition was that it was all too neat and tidy -- not at all like "real life" -- so he wasn't uncomfortable in the least with an ambiguous end to Owen Taylor. To his way of thinking that ambiguity wasn't a flaw it was a feature. Regardless of whether he was actually called and asked, he'd be the person least likely to give a straightforward answer.

Makes sense.

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The killings are the easy part. Try explaining how there is porn with zero skin exposed!!!!!!!

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The beauty of the screenplay I find that it is somewhat ambigeous. This said, to me it seems Obvious that it was Joe Brody who killed Owen. When he tells his story to Bogart he shifts and turns and doesn't look Bogart in the eyes. Obviously the story he's telling is not true and obviously he has something to hide. If he did NOT kill Owen than why tell his story so awkwardly?

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The novel itself is ambiguous.

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The novel doesn't say straight up either. But the way I see it and with some deduction and logic. Carol Lundgren shot Joe Brody that part everyone knows. In the book Carol was Geiger's lover, lived in the bungalow. Taylor was the Sternwood's Driver. He was in love with Carmen.
Owen Taylor didn't like Geiger getting Carmen wasted and being blackmailed, and in the book she was nude. Geiger clearly had a racket within the racket either providing "exotic hootch" or drugs or both. When the women are drugged he takes photos of them nude to blackmail them. (Maybe threaten to add the photos to the books?)
Taylor got upset, shot Geiger. Drove off and Brody followed. Lundgren followed Brody.

Brody sapped Owen Taylor, took the photos and negatives. Left Owen unconscious in the car. Carol was probably scared Owen might blow the lid on the smut book racket, and worse reveal that he and Geiger were involved romantically. So he drives the car with Owen still knocked out. Releases the handbrake on a hill. The car (A Packard) hits Lido Pier either it rolled down hill hand hit the pier, or if it's flat, Carol put the hand throttle on the car and released the brake.
This also provides the reason why he would kill Joe Brody. Not because he murdered Geiger. But to silence him as a witness to the racket, and to protect his secret that he was Geiger's lover.

So basically:

Owen Taylor: Kills Geiger
Carol Lundgren: Kills Taylor and Brody.

But overall Raymond didn't say for sure.

Carmen also killed Sean Regan target shooting in the oil fields behind the Sternwood's. Because Sean wasn't interested in her. Carmen was unhinged and spoiled and was jealous he didn't hit on her. Eddie Mars helped Vivian hide the body of Regan in the oil sump. That's why was blackmailing her. It also explains the title. As Marlowe puts it where does it matter where you are sleeping the Big Sleep?

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That makes sense, also since Carol wanted to clean up any loose ends of his getting revenge on his lover's death.

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I read Lauren Bacall's biography and in it she asked Bogie the same thing. He didn't know, asked Howard Hawks, he didn't know, he asked Chandler. Chandler didn't know either! He never solved it in the book!

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I just watched the movie...on Christmas Day 2016...and its obviously Joe Brody...he hit him and stole the negatives....that much we know.....so obviously he got rid of the body, its a no brainer

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No, it's implied. Never proven.

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