It was quite early in the film, when Phyllis came to deliver Walters hat to him. She went into his living room and said something like: "It looks nice. Who takes care of it for you?" And he answers: "A colored woman comes by a couple of times a week."
I LOL-ed.
www.biofilman.is
How is that racist?
shareWell, it's not, that's why I used the ' and '. But I thought it was unnecessary to mention the woman was colored. But I just thought it was funny so I laughed.
www.biofilman.is
The questioning is actually the last stage in Phyillis' move on Walter. As yet, she does not KNOW whether or not he's married, as he has all the cheerful demeanour of a carefree, single man, yet wears a wedding ring throughout the film. Hence her question, meant to subtly determine his relationship status without blurting out, "Are you married or seeing anyone?". She reinforced this by asking who cooked for him.
This way, he is equally subtle in communicating back to her that he has no romantic attachments, and while adultery back then was simply frowned upon (as it still is today everywhere outside of France), an interracial relationship back then would have been unthinkable. Simply telling her that "A woman comes by to clean/cook" would have left room for lingering suspicions.
M
Please note, I do not want comments from housewives, students or the unemployed.
Just a thing: Fred MacMurray's wedding ring wasn't an intentional choice to further the character. Nobody, even Wilder, noticed it till post-production.
Which makes me thing that you're seeing elephants where there are, in fact, just clouds.
If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world
"Please note, I do not want comments from housewives, students or the unemployed."
What has that to do regarding the value of ones opinion?
You'll get what you get and there's little you can do about it. What a stupid sig!
Excellent movie!
Apparently you wandered in here by mistake. You are making far too much sense for this board.
"The night was sultry."
@ minueteg Thanks for your contribution. You seem like someone that would be interesting to watch and discuss films with. You enlightened me on that scene!
shareM, Thanks for taking the time to parse out the full context of 1940s social conventions in America. Men in America in the 1940s did not do “housework”. Whether they were married or single, keeping a house, was a woman’s job. Neff further makes this clear when he describes his eating arrangements; in that of course, he doesn’t grocery shop or cook for himself. He “boils or fries an egg” for breakfast; and he goes to a local Drug Store Lunch Counter, for his lunch or dinner meals. In fact, he uses the “gone out to get dinner” cover story, to explain his whereabouts when he leaves his apartment to join Phyllis in the killing of her husband.
Men dining out (alone typically) at local (walking distance), restaurants when there is no woman to cook/clean for them is typical of film depictions men in domestic situations, until the late 1960s. Tom Ewell in “Seven-Year Itch”, dines after work in such a place, located either on the ground floor, or next door to his apartment building, because his wife has left for vacation with their son.
The best later day (before the sea-change of the 1960s) example of this can be found in the character of Alma (Patricia Neal – Best Supporting Actress) in 1962’s “Hud”, with Paul Newman, Brandon de Wilde, and Melvin Douglas. Her character is a full time live-in housekeeper; who in the course of the film, is the full time paid housekeeper, laundress, maid, cook, scullery wench; and is nearly raped by Paul Newman.
What is not recognized in this film is that when the ranch is shut down, and all of the hired ranch-hands are laid off; no adjustment in the status or pay of Alma is made. But at least two of the three grown men in the Bannon household (Newman and de Wilde) could have, and should have taken over the “housekeeping” duties, since there was no foreseeable need for their labor, on a ranch that was closed. But such was the mindset of the early 1960s about men and their roles, that even though there was no ranch work to keep these men from house work; and, there was no income from ranching to pay staff (any staff), Alma the female housekeeper/cook/laundress/maid/scullery wench, was kept on.
Within fifteen years this idea was long gone. James Garners’ 1970s Jim (“Rockford Files”) Rockford, lived in a beach trailer and had a retired father, who lived alone in a single family home. Both the characters should have had wise-cracking, worldly-wise housekeepers; either the same person for the households, or two different characters for each. But by 1970s the highly domestic Rockford’s (father and son), cooked and cleaned for themselves; and, in the opening credits of the show, Jim Rockford in a still photo, is seen shopping in a supermarket, with a look of lamentation on his face, at the high prices.
Commercial entertainment is an excellent window on the life and times from which it is made.
Well, it's not, that's why I used the ' and '. But I thought it was unnecessary to mention the woman was colored. But I just thought it was funny so I laughed.
I have to admit that I was struck by the comment - that it wouldn't be acceptable to say, today - but I did not take it as racist. That WAS acceptable to say in that time. I also found it amusing that Neff went to a drive-in restaurant and ordered - and RECEIVED and DRANK a beer!! In his car! That really surprised me - could you actually do that back then?? No WAY would that happen today! Nor the 'colored' comment.
shareHalfwit rfm should report Fred MacMurray to the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People. (NAACP)
shareBEST come back of the year !!!
... well, at least so far. Maybe up for '... ' of the decade even. Just love 'em when they leave a trail of smoke as they rocket across the plate like that ... making that stinging 'smack' sound as ball meets mitt.
'SteeeeeRIKE THREE !! .... You're outta here !!'
What will they do? Dig him up and hit him?
shareThat's how people talked in those days. Nothing sinister or raciast intended. Many blacks had few options but to work as cleaning women porters, maids, etc. Just a sad part of our history.
sharei thought he was just saying she had a really good tan.
You stay classy, San Diego.
who said she was black? She could have been mexican, or asian?
shareoh dear God. What are you, 12 years old?
shareHow's it funny?
shareNot entirely sure, acceptable language changes, currently Benedict Cumberbatch has problems with it.
shareYou think if you walk up to "one" today and call them colored, they're not gonna take that as racist? C'mon man!
Nonsense. What are you, in the second grade?
shareThe nations oldest and largest civil rights organization is known as the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People (www.naacp.org). As long as they continue to retain the word "colored" in their title, I would not consider it to be racist.
shareNot racist given the time period the movie is from. If you look at how people spoke 60 years ago and further back with todays eyes you would call racist again and again, but thats how it was and it was not meant to be racist im sure. Although if you were african american it couldnt have been fun. The world often is and was pretty ignorant.
"If only you could see what i've seen with your eyes"
Actually, at the time "colored" or "negro" would have been considered the sensitive, polite ways to refer to the race of a person who would now be described as "African American". (Hence the phrasing of the name of the NAACP.)
shareCan you please do some research on racism? By misusing the term, you do a dis-service to us all.
shareI'm not offended and I'm colored. Sort of beige and pink colored.
shareI find the line a rather clever double-entendre. Up until the 1960s it was common for people to have either part or full-time maids, usually black women, and his response was perfectly appropriate given the time period. And taking care of "it", could suggest another occupation--although less savory--open to black women back then, prostitution.
share[deleted]
My father is seventy five and insists on using the word colored when referring to African Americans. "It was the way they were referred to until the late sixties" he insists and "black was an insult back then." I use black or African American interchangeably, usually black though because it is less of a mouthful. I hear that "colored" is considered offensive today similar to saying "oriental" instead of "Asian".
There was much more politically incorrect material in the movie like the garage attendant in Neff's building looking overjoyed to be washing one car after another, the African American train porters (there were white ones too) the referral to women as "dames" and the hothead criminally inclined boyfriend with the Italian surname Zachetti. Both of my grandfathers anglicized their Italian last names because of the stigma of criminality and the Mafia coming out of 20th century popular culture.
I don't think it was non-PC to show the garage attendent apparently "overjoyed" to be washing cars - he probably figured that the more cheerful he acted, the better his chances for a nice Christmas bonus. Likewise the porters - acting extra subservient was just a matter of practicality. (Meanwhile, you just KNOW that they were all like "Cracker-ass cracker!", cussing out the white folks as soon as they were out of earshot, just like in that Chris Rock routine!)
shareI laughed too because it seemed out of place, why can't she just be a woman. Can't believe I'm saying this but they should edit that word out of it for a more perfect film to better stand the test of time. I was more put off more though by Walter's overuse of the term 'baby' in referring to a woman he'd apparently never slept with.
Nearly perfect film, 9/10
Can't believe I'm saying this but they should edit that word out of it for a more perfect film to better stand the test of time.
I can believe you're saying it. It seems to be part of the disease of political correctness that even works of art are not safe from the desires of people who want to tinker so that the art will match their comfort zone.
http://thinkingoutloud-descartes.blogspot.com/
Jesus Tap Dancing Christ, we have raised a generation of victims and whiners who can't even handle a line of dialog from a 60 year old movie!!!!!
The OP better buckle his seat belt, life gets a bit bumpy when you are an adult.
Within the context of the era, the comment made perfect sense. Yes, it was racist, but that's how it was.
People hungry for the voice of god
Hear lunatics and liars
I´m well aware that you´re normally a reasonable man, but I don´t find much of anything reasonable about the suggestion that "colored" is in any way a "racist" way of referring to blacks.
"facts are stupid things" - Ronald Reagan
[deleted]
The term itself wasn't racist, but it did represent a culture that was inherently racist. The very fact that "maids" were, almost by definition, black, and that "colored woman" would automatically mean, in this context, a maid, says much of the culture itself.
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
to rock my soul
The term itself wasn't racist, but it did represent a culture that was inherently racist. The very fact that "maids" were, almost by definition, black, and that "colored woman" would automatically mean, in this context, a maid, says much of the culture itself.
How is calling the woman you love "baby" belittling?
Are "dear", "honey", and "darling" also unacceptable?
How is calling the woman you love "baby" belittling?
Are "dear", "honey", and "darling" also unacceptable?
How is calling an adult a baby *not* belittling?I don't see it as belittling, I assumed he meant it as she was that precious to him, and he would keep her safe and protect her.
Franzkabuki, using "colored" in the 1940s wasn't racist, but it certainly would be considered racist now because words evolve and take on different meanings as we progress. I dare you or any white person on this board to call a black person "colored" to their face. Let's see how big and bad and confident you are defending the word when you aren't hiding behind a keyboard.
And is your misquote of Reagan intentional? If you're a Democrat, I would expect someone like you to be more sensitive on topics of race, and if you're a Republican, get the darn quote right. "Facts are STUBBORN things."
Small minds discuss people; average minds discuss events; great minds discuss movies.
"Certainly would be considered racist now because words evolve and take on different meanings as we progress".
Wouldn't call it "progress", exactly.
"Let's see how big and bad and confident you are defending the word when you aren't hiding behind a keyboard".
What a load of nonsense. Why would I feel "big and bad" since I wouldn't think I'm offending anyone? And I don't think I need to "defend" anything - rather, it'd be the job of the blacks to logically explain why such an innocent word is suddenly deemed so offensive. Of course, as an essentially polite person, I'm not gonna insult people to their faces and will thusly avoid the usage of "colored" IF it's indeed so terrible (actually, I never use it anyway), but it still don't make a whole lotta sense to me...
"If you're a Democrat/-/".
Not everyone in this world is an Umuriken you know. And of course it's intentional... I believe, in a twisted way, by Ronnie himself, even.
"facts are stupid things" - Ronald Reagan
[deleted]
No, "colored" wasn't and isn't a racist term. As someone noted, think about the NAACP. It is a nuts group of racist agitators today, but at one time it was a legitimate and effective advocate of and lever for social change. Perhaps the most disciplined, professionally accomplished, and formally educated generation of black Americans deliberately selected the term "colored" because it was inclusive and was regarded as dignified.
Furthermore, the acceptable modern locution is "people of color." We live is a pretty dumb world.
If you have one available go to a library with the series Dictionary of African Americans . At least I think that is what it is called. Anyway, it's hardbound volume published annually that notes the accomplishments of American Blacks of that year. You'll see that they had to keep changing the title every few years as new designations were preferred.
A few years back I asked a soccer coach if the black kid I saw practicing was an American (I thought he might be from a Caribbean nation). The coach scowled at me and said the kid was an African-American. I wont use the term myself until people of color quit saying "white" and call me European-American. I don't support racial bullying.
LL
Using "colored" in the 1940s wasn't racist, but it certainly would be considered racist now because words evolve and take on different meanings as we progress. I dare any white person on this board to call a black person "colored" to their face. Let's see how big and bad and confident you are defending the word when you aren't hiding behind a keyboard.
If you're so confident the word isn't offensive or racist, why don't you go to an all-black neighborhood and say it? Go to Harlem. In fact, go on the stage at the Apollo in Harlem. Does Showtime at the Apollo still come on? Because I'd love to see what happens after you use that word. Some words go out of vogue; just like "queer" for "homosexual." Come into the 21st century.
One day soon, I hope we'll all be talking about how it is no longer okay to use "bitch and ho" to address women. And I'm the last one to defend political correctness because I believe political correctness makes us dishonest and also validates paranoia. But in this case, there is no excuse for people to be arguing that "colored" is still a defensible term in 2014.
Small minds discuss people; average minds discuss events; great minds discuss movies.
Hmm. Big and bad. Hadn't thought of myself that way, but I kind of like it. You are rather bossy come to think of it. And personally, I don't think Leonard's wife would have had anything to do with you or you ilk.
LL
Colored was not used as an insulting term. The "formal" word was Negro -- colored was kind of casual.
That being said, no one today would use the phrase "I have an African-American (or black) woman...". But for some reason, it seems normal for that time to mention race or ethnicity (the Italian grocer, the Chinese laundryman, etc.).
Many Europeans, including Prince Charles recently, will use the word "Filipino" as an synonym for family heath helper.
People hungry for the voice of god
Hear lunatics and liars
It's not just that the word "colored" was used along with the profession, as in "Italian grocer", etc., but that "having a colored women come in" was enough to understand that she was a maid.
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
to rock my soul