Black-face


Why the hell did they have to choose a blackface minstrel show as the finale? What a racist way to waste great talent (Busby Berkley was allegedly racist). Can they just cut it out on TCM to be PC?

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I didn't know Busby Berkeley had any rumours of being racist, but he was a bit of a nasty individual (so it wouldn't surprise me if he was). I guess they used blackface because of the times they lived in, it was acceptable. Al Jolson is the prime example and the most maligned (unjustly) because of his use of it. However it has been shown that Jolson, Eddie Cantor, Judy Garland, Bing Crosby and Fred Astaire (who all used blackface at one point) were not racist at all and supported black people.

In any case TCM over here (in Australia) has not cut the scene. If it was a racist intent on Berkeley's part then shame, but Judy definatly was not.

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It was not considered racist at that time. It's also worth nothing:

- Black performers used black face (they drew the exagerated white lips on their faces). Just off the top of my head, one such duo was Amos and Andy. If the blacks of that period performed the same style, apparently they didn't find it objectionable either.

As for cutting:

That's a horrible idea. History should be shown EXACTLY as it occurred, not censored. The key to free speech is to allow ALL people freedom of expression, including those you find objectionable. Otherwise one day you might hear someone say YOUR words are offensive, and try to censor your freedom.





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"Black performers used black face(they drew the exagerated white lips on their faces). Just off the top of my head, one such duo was Amos and Andy."

You are wrong. No black actor did blackface performing in the cast of Amos 'n'
Andy.

During 1928-1960 Amos 'n Andy was a radio show. The title characters were played by a white actor, Freeman Gosden. Another white man, Charles Correll, did the voice for a third black male character, Andrew. On the stage, Gosden and Correll did blackface imitations of the title characters in Sam n' Henry, a radio show that was a forerunner of Amos 'n' Andy. During the 1930s Amos and Andy was hugely popular on radio. Twice in that decade, Gosden and Correll appeared in movies as their creations, in blackface. In 1951-1953 Amos 'n' Andy was a television series. It had an all black cast as the regulars. I've seen some of the episodes when they were in reruns. None of the performers in the television show did blackface. Amos 'n' Andy was cancelled on television after protests from the National Organization for the Advancement of Colored People (NAACP).


Black members of that organization objected to the image of African-Americans being depicted as lazy, ignorant and dishonest. Interestingly, there were some complaints from white southerners about blacks not being portrayed in a negative way when appearing with whites.


Watching the blackface singing and dancing in Babes, I, too, cringed. That it was a popular form of entertainment then, I knew. That didn't make me any less surprised that it was put into the film. But, aside from how blacks may have felt watching these stereotyped images of them, my sympathy went to the actors.


However, that being so, you can't delete an offensive scene without doing damage to the continuity of the story. Also, what has been posted about the historical record and censorship is true.




Maybe someone can do a show with black actors in whiteface.


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"Black members of that organization objected to the image of African-Americans being depicted as lazy, ignorant and dishonest."

Lol, I never understood those stereotypes, how could blacks be all those things when they did all the menial work while whites sat and drank mint juleps, whites were notorious for scamming others out of pay wages and their land! Lol! Crazy!

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from todays standards one may find the blackface scene offensive but it should be judged by the era in which it was produced, an era when blackface acts were common and were at most times meant to actually be complimentry.. an admission that American popular culture then as today was created and driven by it's citizens of color.... Here's the question to ponder :Were blackface numbers with well crafted music any more offensive than rap with it's degrading of woman it's anti gay stance, glorifcation of drugs, violence and its general mean spirited attitude? I'm sure that you would not approve of "Amos&Andy"
BUT are unaware that with it's banning the only real losers were the actors that lost massive amounts of income due to the ban and their inability to recieve income from reruns.... the activists[troublemakers]suffered no loss.
PC when it successful will creat a bland world similar to an ice cream store that has only one flavor..... even if you do not believe it the differance
between races should be celebrated not shunned do you really want a world which every one is alike?
the more people I meet, the more I prefer the company of my cats



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some of the biggest performers of all time: Bing Crosby, Al Jolson, Judy Garland, Doris Day, Mae West, Frank Sinatra, Jimmy Durante, Fred Astaire, Eddie Cantor, George Burns, The Marx Brothers, Fanny Brice, Bob Hope, Betty Grable, Dean Martin, Gene Kelly, The Three Stooges, and Shirley Temple all performed in blackface on screen or stage. They weren't racist and were subjected to this. black performers who were raised on the minstrel circuit (Eddie 'Rochester' Anderson, Josephine Baker, Ethel Waters, Hattie McDaniels, Fats Waller, Sammy Davis Jr., Rufus Thomas, Godfrey Cambridge, Billie Holiday, and many others) despised blackface and regretted wearing this symbol of racism.

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Add to that list Ava Gardner as Julie, the biracial singer, in the 1951 film of Showboat. It was a role that had been promised to the black singer Lena Horne. In Torch Song, from 1953, a blackfaced Joan Crawford mouthed the words and danced to the tune of Two-Faced Woman. Both times the singing voices were dubbed. Lena Horne was chosen to do the singing for Ava Gardner. But just before
the recording was done, she was replaced.


Fred Astaire did blackface, perhaps for the only time, in the 1937 movie, Shall We Dance. It was his tribute to the greatest black dancer of the time, Bill "Bojangles" Robinson.


In Going Hollywood, in 1933, Marion Davies, jokingly rubs the cheek of a black boy because she wants some of his skin color for herself. She intends to disguise herself as a black woman. She does so, resembling the black pancake logo, Aunt Jemima.



Several years ago I was astounded to learn that blackface had crossed the ocean. On TCM I was watching the 1937 British film, Young and Innocent. It was directed by Alfred Hitchcock, the reason I wanted to see it. In one scene, a blackfaced band is playing for a dancefloor. This movie was seen by me not long after I had viewed Ken Burns' series, JAZZ, on PBS. So, I figured that no matter where, jazz and maybe also swing music were linked to black Americans.


By the 1970s we had come a long way, despite persisting racial tensions. In the television series, All In The Family, Gloria has a baby. Her father, Archie
Bunker, rushes into the hospital. He is still in blackface, having done a minstrel show act for his equally bigoted lodgemembers. The laughter is prolonged. This time, the white character in black makeup is the object of ridicule.



The white singer, Neil Diamond, appeared in the 1980 version of The Jazz Singer. According to the Trivia section for the movie, he appeared in blackface
and with an Afro haircut singing in a nightclub. It was his tribute to Al
Jolson. That famous entertainer starred in the original film The Jazz Singer, in 1927. Jolson sang in blackface in part of the film.


Why was the darkening of Neil Diamond's face necessary? From the description of the movie, it is essentially the story of a young Jewish man whose father wants him to be a cantor, or synagogue singer. But the son wants to be a popular entertainer. Did blackface have to be in the script of the third film because it was in the first one? For a white actor to have darkened his skin to mimic a white image of a black man in the 1920s was bad enough. However, after fifty-three years, the civil rights movement and Sidney Poitier it is astounding that a performer would still be insensitive enough to do it for no good reason.





The most recent example of blackface in films was Robert Downey, Jr. in Tropic Thunder. He did a satirical portrayal of a white actor doing a stereotyped, exaggerated performance as an angry black man in a Vietnam war film. I can't recall if there were complaints. But the movie is a comical take on war films and moviemaking. It deserves to be rated as a comedy classic. A current performance is that of the actor on Saturday Night Live who impersonates Barack Obama. He does Obama because, like the President, he is slim. Perhaps we have matured to the point where we can appreciate the humor in a once thoroughly racist device if it is not done in a degrading way.






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Fred Astaire and Virginia Dare do a Blackface routine in Irving Berlin's "Holiday Inn". I'm sure you knew that but just forgot...

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"Were blackface numbers with well crafted music any more offensive than rap with it's degrading of woman it's anti gay stance, glorifcation of drugs, violence and its general mean spirited attitude? I'm sure that you would not approve of "Amos&Andy""


Tell me you are not serious with this foolish statement! lol, What the hell does rap music have to do with anything? You act as if Rock musicians are noted for their great respect of women and their love for gays, one of the biggest female and gay bashers is WHITE rapper Eminem, but again what does any of this have to do with a racist black face number?

NOTHING!

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we were discussing black entertainer and white performers who acted black not rock music, last time i checked rap was a black dominated genre And i would include eminem in the same class as white performers in the 40's trying to mimic blacks. Shakespere said "imitation is the sincerist form of flattery" and as i see it it is a compliment to black singers that whites wanted to be like them

the more people I meet, the more I prefer the company of my cats



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And that "black dominated genre" is mostly supported by white suburban teens! You honestly think that black face numbers were whites paying tribute to blacks?



excuse me a minute
















Give me a f-ing break! lol

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What a pathetic topic. Any of you morons realise this was released in 1941 not 2001.

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I have to say I thought the same thing as the original poster. Why the heck did they have to include the minstrel show in the finale? In fact, I asked the same question about the other, Berkley, Rooney, and Garland piece (Babes in Arms). It seems that Busby Berkley was a little obsessed with the minstrel show, however I can't say whether he was racist or not. However, I did feel uncomfortable watching that part of the film. I understand they were just being "men of their time" but it was a shockingly racist time. It was more than likely a harmless inclusion at the time, but it certainly is a rough watch today. Does anyone know why the "Babes" movies were so focused on the blackface finale?

Regardless, did anyone else cringe when they saw Judy Garland in that getup?

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I not only cringed when I saw Judy Garland in that number, my eyes filled with tears. I know that Garland was not a racist and I know that the minstrel number was just going along with the times, but I wonder about independent judgment -- didn't the people going along with the times see that the exaggerated white lips and the exaggerated movements and voice was demeaning? It's so sad.

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Chapelle is a riot and it's called satire. Babes on Broadway is not satire.

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I thought the "Ho Down" number was offensive to the farming community. How dare they use the term "Ho"!
And what about those pantomime horses? Couldn't they find REAL horses?
And the skits fantasized by Mickey and Judy in the abandoned theater insulted the French, the Irish and the Scots!
And Mickey's impersonation of Carmen Miranda impugned the dignity of Latino transvestites and other tropical fruits!
Ain't tolerance wonderful?
Hey, all you guilt-wallowers -- GET A LIFE!

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Criticism of the blackface sequence isn't about guilt. It's about awareness of the bigotry and prejudice that permeated America at the time, and to some extent still does. We need to learn from the past, not brush it aside as unimportant so that we won't feel "guilty".

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Black face acts in any old film, no matter how good the rest of the movie may otherwise be, are something I, personally, find pretty much impossible to stomach in this day and age. The best I could say of its employment is that I doubt many, if not most of its performers had any personal disregard for people of color, but were only performing an unfortunate example of shtick that had been a staple of American pop culture since before the Civil War and until the Jim Crow era finally underwent its much-deserved death.

Secret Message, HERE!-->CONGRATULATIONS!!! You've discovered the Secret Message!

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at the time even up to the 70s it was alright to show it--it was always done as a variety performance --there was no hint of racism--because the musical numbers were great to view--but we can all understand that these days--its not so palatable -there seems to be something wrong in viewing such material-and that is perfectly understandable-

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<< Why the hell did they have to choose a blackface minstrel show as the finale? >>

All the racist implications aside, the "reason" a minstrel show motif would be used for a finale is that a song and dance sequence has to have a theme.

The minstrel shows were (oddly) associated with joy and lively freedom...built on the supposition that those precious, addled, child-like old darkies were so "free and easy" compared to uptight, respectable, whites...always with a song on their lips and a twinkling tap in their toes. (I guess a misplaced classification like this helped some white people ignore what their black brothers and sisters might actually be feeling or experiencing.)

So, since minstrel shows were energetic, supposedly-comedic experiences, it makes more sense to pick a theme like that for a rousing finale than, say, a number set in a welfare maternity ward. It gives the opportunity for bold costumes, blaring orchestration, and belted singing.

But still....gross.

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I agree that its regrettable and bound to be offensive in present times, but what makes it doubly unfortunate is that Judy Garland, Mickey Rooney and Ray MacDonald are all superb in the number and show such talent; Judy's singing and dancing, Mickey's banjo playing (Anyone know if he did all that himself? Say what you will about his overacting at times, but the guy had incredible talent), and Ray's soft shoe number are all first rate.

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I realize this is a very ancient thread, but I just finished watching BOB after not seeing it for years.

My thoughts:

First of all, Astaire's blackface in the classic 1936 film "Swing Time" is NOT a minstrel number, but rather an homage
to his dancing hero, Bill "Bojangles" Robinson. True, he would NOT have worn blackface to do this number today,
but get over it kiddies, it's not 1936 anymore. And this number is one of his greatest. STILL.

The finale in BOB is a whole other ball of wax. Rooney, Garland and co. are NOT paying homage to anyone.
Their ridiculous minstrel show goes on for about SEVEN minutes, and they mimic and mock black people with
terrible, racist jokes.

Here's the good news: BOB is pretty much a talky, bloated, corny affair, with little to recommend it. The
charming "How About You?" is really its only highlight. If any young person expressed interest in Rooney
and Garland today (they were talented beyond reason, frankly), I would suggest "Strike up the Band"
or "Girl Crazy."

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