Illusion vs. Citizen Kane

You missed what I was saying. I don't despise Citizen Kane; I just see its limitations compared with Illusion, especially the acting. Like you, I thought Citizen Kane was a masterpiece. But I saw both films within a short time period of each other, and I was struck by the landscape and depth that Illusion covers, and I found Citizen Kane coming up short. That's all. And I wondered if anyone else was struck by this, too--without being cowed by the conventional wisdom of "Citizen Kane . . . masterpiece."

I just thought it would be fun to compare the two movies Grand Illusion and Citizen Kane. I wish the discourse had not been lowered by some to label me as a "moron," but as it was a Citizen Kane fan, I will take it as a compliment. You may love a movie as a young adult. But later in life you reconsider it and find its limitations when compared to another movie you had never seen or previously weren't mature enough for, because your life experiences are more varied. That's all. Some movies, such as Grand Illusion, you grow into, knowing that there will be more to discover each time you watch it.

Woody Allen reagrds LGI as the greatest film ever made - what is he a "moron"? CK is an overrated picture and was not awarded an Academy Award for best film , director or best actor. The academy were uncertain of this picture and rightly so.

CK's is a technical achievement, full of clever FX but the film is quite simplistic with a kitch Freudian ending.

OW had an enormous ego and was a nightmare for the studio system, if anything this movie was a prophetic statement about his career more than anything else. Today, it looks tired and the technical wizadry dated and affected. The plot is tiresome and the script at times self-indulgent. It is a good film but lacks the passion of LGI and other classics from the golden age.

It is said Wells watched JF's "Stagecoach" 50x before making CK. Well, if nothing else he had great taste! He interviewed very well and had fine insights into Shakespeare.

I have also watched Stagecoach more than 50x and CK is not in the same league. Wells borrows much of the cinematography from Ford's earlier film (watch the scene where the doctor walks into a saloon - stunning and completely ripped off by Wells).

No, I would stand by the claim that only critics of a certain age and nihilistic bent are pro-CK. They are the post-68 generation who have helped to trash Western culture in the same way that their economic equivalents trashed the East European economies.

You were wrong boyz - about economics, politics, architecture and art.

"The Grand Illusion is a great film but it's for sure idiotic to call it better than Citizen Kane, Citizen Kane is a much better film.
I dont question Grand Illusion being a masterpiece as it is. But only idiots can say that Citizen Kane is overrated, although I dont consider it the greatest film ever but I consider it one of the top ten, while Grand Illusion is not.
And by the way Kane has a better acting, Script and Direction, as I remember one moron saying that Illusion has better ones.
Don't get me wrong I like Grand Illusion very much, but it's not the type of film to be compared to Citizen Kane."


Well I guess that settles it, then. Friends, lets forget our own individual opinions and recognize katoga2002's opinions as universal facts. They just have be. By the tone of his post I can tell that no person in history has ever been more certain of anything. And people who are so certain of things can never be wrong. Certainly not when it comes to matters of opinion. In fact, I move that we get rid of the electorial college and just ask katoga2002 who he wants to be President. We'd be idiotic not to. I can see it now. President Zombie Orson Welles.

I know this was told in 2005 and it is 2012 now. But are calling Orson Welles a moron ? Because he thought Grand Illusion was the great film ever.

http://justgyaan.blogspot.com/

And that, I think, is the criterion I adopt

One point -- The German officer played by Stroheim does not mourn "Bouldieu" as a human being but as a fellow member of the soldierly class. He despises Frenchmen Mareschal (Jean Gabin) and Rosenthal (Marcel Dalio) as amateurs playing at war. The film is not grade-school idealist -- but realist, and all the better for it.

You didn't feel any empathy with Charles Foster Kane? I feel sorry for you...

Calling Citizen Kane a technical tour de force is to miss the point of the picture. The character of Kane is such an enigma that it is impossible (well, it was for me anyway) not to be drawn to his character. So much happens to him, he does so much... God, I could go on for ages.

But don't compare these movies. They're completely different works of art. It's like comparing Beethoven with Mozart; it just isn't done. They're both brilliant.

http://www.ymdb.com/daniel-glassman/l34590_ukuk.html

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Grand Illusion has been my choice for greatest film in world cinema since I was a kid, but Kane is also in my top 10. Orson Welles said, "If I could save only one film, it would be 'Grand Illusion'", perhaps because Illusion brilliantly, creates a uniquely humane vision for which the world to aspire, something that is even more important than the everlasting technical brilliance of Kane. That is not to say that Illusion isn't also technically great; it is; and that's not to say that Kane isn't also humane; it is. In fact, I take issue with those who are trashing the opinions of others on this thread and saying one is obviously better than the other. Ridiculous, both are universally acclaimed world masterpieces. And while true it's apples and oranges, so what, that's what movie lists are for, it's harmless fun. Finally, AMEN to those who say the Academy Awards are meaningless, they are. To add to what others have already said, Wings isn't better than Sunrise, The Crowd and The General; Cimarron isn't better than City Lights; Cavalcade isn't better than King Kong; The Great Ziegfield isn't better than Modern Times or Fury; Hamlet isn't better than Treasure of the Sierra Madre; Greatest Show on Earth isn't better than Singin' in the Rain & High Noon; Around the World in 80 Days isn't better than The Searchers; Gigi isn't better than Vertigo or Touch of Evil; Ben-Hur isn't better than Some Like It Hot; and to jump ahead to perhaps the most egregious offense in Oscar history, the well-meaning but flat-out-bad, laughably implausible and unintentionally stereotypical Crash wasn't in the same stratosphere as the original, beautiful Brokeback Mountain (which, incidentally, was the most honored pre-Oscars film in American cinema; nothing with its credentials had lost; with senior members like Tony Curtis and Ernest Borgnine vocally bragging they wouldn't even see it "because John Wayne would have turned over in his grave", it strips away the scraps of credibility the Academy still had even after the flat "Chicago" beat masterpiece "The Pianist". Sorry for the digression! Both are top 10 world cinema, Grand Illusion gets my slight vote.