swearing


the say damn alot and i think the bad guy say the eff word too. any one else notice this????????????

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F word? No way it would ever get into this or any other movie from the 1930's.

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Quite agree. Especially as when Blakeney recites his poem "they seek him here, they seek him there" etc. neither he nor those who recite it after him can use the word "Hell". I think "Damn" was jolly well all right at the time, what-ho! It was a word to emphasise and make something serious as in, "He'd damn well better be in by ten o'clock, or there'll be trouble."

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It's actually the same in some of the books, depending on when they were published - with 'd--n', or Blakeney's slurred pronounciation of 'demmed', replacing 'damn'. I can't recall if the same applies to 'hell' in the censored books, but I thought it was amusing to have the word blanked out like that!

I've never understood the problem with 'damn' and 'hell' - films that replace the latter with 'heck' seriously irritate me, because it's not a strong word, and yet watering it down loses any impact it does have.

Sarah

"Tony, if you talk that rubbish, I shall be forced to punch your head" - Lord Tony's Wife, Orczy

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Especially as when Blakeney recites his poem "they seek him here, they seek him there" etc. neither he nor those who recite it after him can use the word "Hell".

On the contrary, he uses the word "hell" twice when he recites his poem for male-only audiences. He leaves it out only when he recites the poem to a group of women.

----

The early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.

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yes, thank you for the accurate information

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At the end of the movie, I thought I did hear Chauvelin whisper the F word when Percy came back after Chauvelin thought he was killed.

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It would probably be the Raymond Massey personality that mixed up with Chauvelin

The movie censor board as you know were really strict going as far as to soften ords like "damn" and "Hell" which was considered strong lannguage then.

I guess that's what I liked about the old movies. A bit overidealistic in a way and far removed from actual reality where the actors and directors strived to keep the language as clean as possible (which must have been a
real
struggle for some actors!)




"Lehmunade! do you see anyone coming?"

"The answer is a lemon.."

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I think, as he was listening to the firing squad outside, he was so impassioned at the "ready, aim, .... and when they yelled, "Fire", be mouthed it and it looks like he's saying the "f' word.

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I watched it again, and my impression was also that he was saying "fire" along with the firing squad commander.
No way in, uh, the place below would he utter the "f" word in a movie dated 1934.

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But such a great, timeless movie! I just love it, and it never fails to tickle me.


Best,

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There is a great amount of both authenticity and pseudo-authenticity in this movie. The dialog appears extremely stilted to us of the 21st Century, but yes, people really did speak like that. Listen to some of the very earliest voice recordings (Cylinders and early one-sided disks) made -- such as those at the Edison Library -- which date back into the 1880's -- and you will see what I mean.

In Victorian times the word Damn and Damned was OK because it was used by Queen Victoria. The word Hell was not. Just as when asking for a piece of the roast chicken to be served, one did not say "Please give me a Breast (or thigh)" Breast meat was referred to as "The White Meat" and the Thigh was referred to usually as "a leg". Recall, if you will, why those times were called "The Victorian Age". What Dear Queen Vicy did, said and dressed, everyone emulated. Very similar to the Diana, Princess of Wales, situation before her death.

The used of the word "demmed" as a very clever disguise of the word dammed is actually the uper-class English Public School accent of that age. I opine that the "accent" was emphasized to pass by the Hollywood Movie Censors.

Percy's use of the hand gesture to point downwards instead of saying "Hell" was a common one used in the age, similiar to pointing upwards, as in "going to Heaven".

M. Chauvelain does not say *beep* (as in the "eff word"). He says the word "Failed!" (in French " ... échoué! ... " which, if you recall your high school French lessons, is pronounced in American English as "A-ch'oo-EH!" He did not use the French word, mainly I suspect because most would think he sneezed ;-) He said the English word "Failed" in sotto voice .. which makes it sound something like *beep* if you want it to sound like that.

Unfortunately, the available DVD and VHS tape of this grand classic has such a crappy sound quality that it makes it difficult to actually understand conversations, unless you are a student of 1930's pseudo-Victorian British English upper-class Public School accents. You will notice that the French revolutionaries -- when speaking -- effect a kind of low-class, almost Americanized -- accent. This is a cinematic coup d'main which immediately allows the listener to realize that they are low-class scoundrels with no culture or appreciation for the Finer Things of Life.

What the world needs is a first generation digital of this film. Alas, since it was most likely filmed on Celluloid and any copies existant are third or more generations removed ... the sound track and details are forever lost.



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I'm a little late to this discussion but, I did see this movie again the other day, and whereas I was just enjoying the movie and not making a study of it, I did notice that the words "Demmed" and "Hell" are not covered up in the film. The only time "Hell" is avoided is when Percy is reciting his poem to a group of women.

I do agree that we very much need a restoration of this film. I feel that Criterion is who should take this on, and I hope that they do so before it is too late.

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Yes, we DO need a restoration. Yes, Percy "swears" an awful lot, but it's not an angry swearing at all, it's an emphasis or "by jove" kind of swearing. Strangely enough, I had a VHS with the movie on it that my Dad had taped ages ago, and I bought the DVD thinking it would be better quality, and it was worse and missing a few of the funniest scenes in the movie. *raises eyebrows*

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I went to Criterion's website and suggested that they take on the restoration of The Scarlet Pimpernel and, I recommend others to also contact them. Then maybe they will seriously consider taking on the project.
Bye the way, what were they missing scenes? I too have a couple of copies on VHS which I have now transfered to DVD, and when I purchased a DVD it too was of very poor quality. Now, I'm quite curious as to what was cut out.

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If Predak is referring to the Madacy DVD, then some of the best scenes are indeed missing - the main one that springs to mind is the 'Cease? I shall love her till the day I die' line from Howard; the quality is not very good either. But the double DVD, with the 1937 sequel, that is available on eBay is uncut, and is in good condition, considering the age of the film - subtitles, too, to really follow some of the excellent dialogue. Until a perfect restoration is released, I suggest the recent DVD for the best quality copy (and for the rare chance to watch the sequel, which is actually better than the first, despite the lack of Howard and Oberon!)

Sarah

"Tony, if you talk that rubbish, I shall be forced to punch your head" - Lord Tony's Wife, Orczy

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[deleted]

I got this DVD from my local library and was disappointed to find that there were no subtitles. Any way to know whether a copy is the subtitled version you mention?

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I wish this wonderful film would be restored, too. Please, Criterion! It's a classic and deserves a good resoration.

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[deleted]

I agree with the other commenters, in that Leslie Howard said it "demmed" a lot to get past censors. Also, if ever watch another version of this movie, it has some of the same lines at the end, but better acoustics. Chauvelier actually says "Fire", because the firing squad is about to finally kill Percy. It's hard to hear, but listen for it.

I may be a geek, but at least I'm lovable sometimes.

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He doesn't say the f word. He is either saying "Fire" in some strange way or he is saying some word in French that resembles the English f word. It's related to the execution he thinks is going on.

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I remeber someone saying that one guy said Hell. I saw it, too, but when he said it he was actually talking about Hell. He didn't mean it in a swearing context. The damned part, he did, though. Although that may be seen only as him reciting a popular saying, and nothing more

Baby's on the Half Tip

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"What the hell"
"Damn you to hell"
"To hell with you"

These are about as bad as you can get using "hell" and damn" and none of these sayings are anywhere close to swearing.

They are no worse than saying....

"kiss my grits"
"kiss off"
"Go kiss a mules behind"

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dahoss,
I know exactly what you're talking about. I have to admit, it bugs me when people think "swear words" can be substituted

Baby's on the Half Tip

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It's not swearing. He/they say dem-me a lot, which is the same as saying "darn" or "drat" or "dang."

. . . . . . . .

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Yes, you're right, they do say damned and demmed a lot, but that goes back to the book. Demmed is merely a foppish way of saying damned, a word that no one would have minded much at the time the book was written.

At the end Chauvelin is mouthing "fire" along with the captain of the firing squad. Why would he say the f-word? He thinks he's won at this point.

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I'm not quite sure this opinion has been expressed previously, but here goes anyway JIC not

The period was Regency, after Victoria, during which the rigid Victorian 'rules' were quickly disappearing, thanks largely to the excesses of the Prince, Regent

It was impolite to curse anyone else but 'allowed' to do so to oneself. Percy would call down objuration on himself with 'sink me'(sinkmeh), 'stab me' (stabmeh) and the ultimate 'damn me' (dammeh). All three were used in Percy's (all male) Club, Blacks, and in the Prince's (again, all male) rooms.

Other curses were disguised, especially in mixed company as follows;

ods blood = God's blood
zounds = God's wounds
ods fish = God's fish (at the wedding at Cana)
good gad = good God

and of course the famous 'demmed elusive Pimpernel'

In mixed company, the 'is he in ( )' was, at most, only gestured

The 'damme' in question, therefore is more of a slurred abbreviation of 'damn me', not an expansion of 'damn'

"Roman Legion; Count OFF"
"I", "II", "III", "IV" ...

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The period was Regency, after Victoria, during which the rigid Victorian 'rules' were quickly disappearing, thanks largely to the excesses of the Prince, Regent

Or - try, it was actually the end of the Georgian era (King George III), which came before the Regency (the Regent was his son), and before Queen Victoria's reign (she was the daughter of the Prince Regent's brother).

Otherwise, you're right: morality was much more lenient in upper class Britain before Victoria's day (even before the Regency!)


"Tony, if you talk that rubbish, I shall be forced to punch your head" - Lord Tony's Wife, Orczy

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