MovieChat Forums > Killers of the Flower Moon (2023) Discussion > it's weird that Mollie would overlook Er...

it's weird that Mollie would overlook Ernest helping to murder her sisters but wouldn't forgive him for poisoning her


Ernest is arrested by the FBI for his role in the murder of Mollie's sisters and then agrees to testify against his uncle. He's then allowed to see Mollie after she recovers from being poisoned and she doesn't seem upset at all that he literally helped to murder her sisters. It's as if the murder of her sisters suddenly meant nothing to her. But then she finds out that he poisoned her, which she survived, and that's the end of their relationship. It doesn't really make sense that she would so easily overlook his role in the murder of her sisters but would then totally give up on him because he poisoned her even though she survived.

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Martin Scorsese doesn't know how to portray women or love stories at all (and im not saying it's in any way a "love" story, this is 100% an abuse story. But Scorsese and DiCaprio keep harping on about how it is a "twisted love story", which shows how little they understand about relationships and how skewed their perception is) Her character's behaviour makes absolutely no sense in this film.

She’s supposed to be this strong and intelligent woman, and yet she just passively let’s her husband murder her whole family, and then at the end she... HUGS HIM? Scorsese lost the plot with this one. I kept waiting for her to shoot DiCaprio but every time he sees to it that one of her loved ones is murdered all she gets to to is weep and then touch his face lovingly. Why did they advertise the film as if she is important to the story, other than to sell tickets to native audiences?

Trouble comes with the insinuation that Ernest truly loves Mollie. He takes very little manipulation from Hale to start killing her sisters and eventually her for her oil money. Of course, he loves money - the film makes sure we don't forget that by having him say as much, and in so many words, about 15 times - but there is simply no hesitation to do these horrible things to her family, no internal conflict, not until the last act or so, at which point it comes across as uncharacteristic. He says he feels regret, and Leo looks regretful, but he has done very little to convince me of this. The film couldn't decide whether it wanted him to be a truly horrible, greedy man who didn't love Mollie or a sympathetic victim of a genuinely evil man who was tricked into hurting the woman he loves.

I never once felt that Ernest loved Molly. Everything about them felt rushed. & the whole "it's about greed, he really loved her but greed took over he couldn't see how terrible it was that he was poisoning her" Please.... how could you poison the mother of your children and claim to love her ?

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i think he wrote it as though leo's character loved his wife. without any redemption at all, this story would've sucked so bad. leo's character would've had no conflict at all and he was just a pure villain.

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there was one scene that came AFTER the guy who murdered her sister testifies. he says that her brother in law helped held the sister up to be shot. then the very next scene is the brother in law sleeping on the couch in her house as she walks up and lays in bed with her husband. that made no fucking sense. it also made no sense that fbi didn't have the brother in custody. in real life, the brother was acquitted somehow but i didn't look into why.

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I think that was a timeline jump. We see that Molly was considerate and gave a cushion to the man who just murdered her sister and his wife. We have the cushion moment and then it flashes back to the murder, if I’ve remembered it correctly.

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They showed the murder first.

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I wondered the same thing.

Great film though.

Wish it wasn't based on actual events. Depressing.

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If I’m remembering correctly, when she sits down she’s always planning to leave, she just wanted to know one last thing - will he actually lie about poisoning her. He does, then she leaves, knowing the full extent of his evil.

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But that wasn't even their first meeting after he was arrested and exposed by the FBI. He was previously let out of jail to go to his daughter's funeral and he saw her there. At that point she knew about his involvement in the murder of her sisters. The movie doesn't show her being upset with him about it. At that point why would she even wait to learn whether he was involved with poisoning her or whether he would tell the truth about it before she threw him out of her life for helping to murder her sisters?

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IIRC the only time we’re certain that she knows he blew up her sister’s house is when we see her witnessing the trial in which he confesses to doing so. The sit down scene is either immediately or shortly following that, isn’t it?

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That was after he was briefly let out of jail to go to the funeral. She knew by then about his involvement in the murder of her sisters. That's the whole reason he was in jail in the first place.

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I only learned that he was involved in killing Reta during the courtroom confession scene. Prior to that I thought he was in custody for suspicion of being involved in multiple crimes 🤷🏻‍♂️

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By the time Ernest was briefly let out of jail to go to the funeral she knew that he was involved in the murder of her sisters because that's the whole reason he was in jail in the first place. Those multiple crimes he was involved in were the murder of Mollie's sisters.

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There was a whole slew of crimes, they killed multiple people plus insurance fraud etc etc - that’s why he was in jail.

As far as the sisters go, I believe the only one he was involved in killing was Reta, and Mollie didn’t know that to be the case until he confessed to it.

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At least one of those crimes was the murder of Reta. Mollie knew about all the trouble Ernest was in by the time he was let out of jail for his daughter's funeral. Even if she didn't know for sure about his guilt by that point she at least knew what he was accused of. And regardless of when she knew for sure about his guilt, the last time they met after he confessed in court she didn't have anything to say to him about her sister's murder. All she did was ask him whether he really poisoned her.

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I’m willing to give the film the benefit of the doubt up until he confesses to being involved in the murder of Reta. Until that point I will assume Mollie simply wasn't aware, or suspected but was in denial.

But after he confesses it seems like a glaring mistake to not have Mollie even react to learning that he was killing her family, let alone confront Ernest about it. I agree that it’s absurd that her one concern is ‘will he lie to me’ after she knows he’s been secretly slaughtering her family. She should be scratching his fucking eyes out.

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Their relationship was unrealistic from the start.

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I genuinely got the impression that the Osage were very naive and innocent people. I don't think they expected a murderous gang of white men to descend upon their happy world.

A big gang of violent, greedy white boys figure in a hell of a lot of historical stories!

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To me, it felt like she really really loved him and love can forgive a lot. Don't forget, Ernest is playing an ... less as average intelligent man, which was several times proven in the movie. He is not mentally limited, but I wouldn't bet my money, if he could outsmart Homer Simpson. So it is plausible for her, that King Hale was the mastermind who just used her husband as a tool, which is most of the time even true. Furthermore, Ernest in the movie states several times in save spaces with King Hale and other goons that he truly loves her.
So even after all what happened, she was willing to forgive him, as long he really was finally totally honest to her. So she asked him, if he confessed everything. And he says yes, he never tried to poison her, making it finally clear, he does not stopped lying. So the last chance of redemption for him was forfeit.

Look into history of victims of domestic violence. Victims often come back to their perpetrator, because they believe, they can change them, because they love them. It is sad, but often happening.

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Beat me to it. She was a victim of domestic violence and she showed many of thr symptoms. She was heavily manipulated. We see it every day with the victims going back to their abusers.

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Still, Ernest was too less intelligent to play her, so I think he really loved her, but was massively conflicted and greedy, so followed the plan. I don't see him being on purpose manipulative beside him hiding the killing.

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I think it bothered her more that he was still lying about that. I wonder if he'd have owned up to it if she'd have handled it differently. He did have remorse about it, because he put it in his own glass at one point.

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