Is Mayberry segregated?


This was set before the peak of the Civil Rights movement in the South. There are no black people.

reply

No it was not segregated. You can see people in the background who were African American. If the town was truly segregated African Americans would not be allowed to stand close to white people and would be reflected on a television show. The town would have a section where African Americans would conduct business in general. Although painful it was fairly realistic that the main characters would have virtually no contact with African Americans other than Sheriff Taylor. To its credit the show did not ever have an African American run afoul of the law even if it were a comedic bend such as having a counter part to someone such as Otis Campbell. So no bad stereotypes to its credit and I think African American stereotypes were overblown by the 1960's in entertainment. So things were already improving just over a generation after Gone With The Wind.

reply

The TAGS spinoff Gomer Pyle USMC nearly always had African Americans in Gomer's platoon in any given episode along with Asian Americans. It was probably a bigger deal to showcase an Italian American such as it was with Ted Bessell's Frankie Lombardi.
Jack Webb made it a policy on Adam 12 that no one group was disproportionately portrayed as criminals on that show.

reply

However, in the 60's when this show was made, tv and movies were produced out of Hollywood and NYC. The show's creators were liberals who would never intentionally support segregation.

So if we try to conceptualize Mayberry as a real place, there would have been segregation, de facto but not legal. That's how the South was in 1960.

But as you say, there were few blacks on American tv in the 60's, in general.

reply

Jack Webb was anything but a liberal. Segregation varied widely in the South during the 1960's from what I am told. In non former plantation areas segregation was very minimal and sometimes nonexistent. The white people there never had a stake in the plantation system. We never hear any talk on The Andy Griffith show about cotton or tobacco grown although North Carolina in general was known for tobacco. We only see subsistence type agriculture which would indicate the soils in Mayberry were too poor for those crops. So the people of the town of Mayberry at the most had a minimal investment in slavery. The most intense examples of segregation and bigotry for the most part existed in the deep South in cotton country. Cotton provided great wealth for many whites in those areas with mechanization decades into the future. There was outright hatred for African Americans when the slavery system was torn down. But things did not change appreciably in the short term as the almost as bad share cropping system was installed.

reply

Jack Webb was from California and worked out of Hollywood. I assure you he didn't vote for George Wallace.

Mayberry was not an accurate portrayal of the South. Though North Carolina was more moderate and wasn't Mississippi. It was still the white racist South.

There would have been strong racial separation in every small North Carolina town. The Hollywood producers of the show didn't even want to touch on the topic of race.

reply

George Wallace was to an extreme so Jack Webb could be to the right and not to the far right. Webb's Dragnet co-star Harry Morgan commented that Webb certainly was to the right of center in terms of politics. Television seldom is dead nuts on in terms of portraying locales or people. I had a college roommate from Asheville, NC and he most certainly did not harbor any racist views. The racism in the South was usually tied to one's economic connection to slavery or the lack of. Then there of course is general ignorance so hatred was directed with some people at many different targets. I stand by my statement that in towns which had little or no benefit from slavery economically the progress happened much sooner. Not perfect harmony in most cases but an ability by people of color to live in peace. By the way in the North where I live people denied economic opportunity for reasons other than race. But race and ethnicity could have been factors based on the situation. In many locales since the English got there first they seized the most opportunity with others waiting to see what scraps were thrown from their tables.

reply

I remember going to a drug store lunch counter in the Houston area in the summer of 1963, and seeing a sign on the wall that read "We Reserve the Right to Refuse Service to Anyone", with a cartoon picture of a negro (the polite term at that time) eating a big piece of watermelon. If it was still like that in Texas in the early '60s, it most likely was in North Carolina, too. Of course, the example I saw wasn't law, it was the policy of the private business. But I don't doubt the authorities would have backed the owner's right to enforce that policy.

reply

"We Reserve the Right to Refuse Service to Anyone", with a cartoon picture of a negro (the polite term at that time) eating a big piece of watermelon.


Hahaha. And we wonder why they hate us?

reply

Why does NC have to be like Texas? I've known people from both states and the cultures vary significantly. As a Yankee from the North if given a choice I would rather mingle around NC than Texas as a lot of Texans are xenophobic. As to casting on a sitcom I would not draw too many conclusions as to social policy and practice. As said elsewhere in this forum the Mayberry shown on the show would not overly reflect a NC town in the early 1960's. The show was good for some laughs but was never presented as a history lesson. By the way the episodes "A Black Day for Mayberry" and "Citizen's Arrest" are coming up on the Me TV schedule and you will see African Americans in the crowd scenes.

reply

Don't try to reason with people who don't use reason. It's frustrating.

reply

Yes, it was segregated.

"Black extras did populate background scenes, but only one episode featured a Black main character — actor Rockne Tarkington as a professional football player who moves back to his hometown to coach Opie’s team.

The show’s response was that portraying Black participation in majority town life was unrealistic for a comedy in a time when the Southern reality was tense racial segregation."

"Earlier that same year, four students from North Carolina A&T State University in Greensboro challenged segregation with the first sit-in, at a F.W. Woolworth lunch counter.

Mixing rose-colored fiction and real life, it would be nice to think Floyd the barber would have given those nice young men a shave and a haircut in Mayberry.

But not even Griffith believed that. A former colleague told me about a call back from Griffith to answer a question on race that he had stumbled on in an interview; it was about his decision to skirt that particular lesson in 'The Andy Griffith Show.' It would have been the one thing Sheriff Andy could not have solved in a half-hour, he figured, so he left it alone, my friend reported.

Some African Americans, they wrote, "might wonder how Mayberry came to exist as an all-white community and what this signaled about race relations in the quiet hamlet," also noting that Griffith said he regretted the decision to exclude blacks from the regular cast. The actor explained that African Americans at the time did not want to be portrayed in servant roles and "there is no way in some small town in the South that white people were going to flock to a black doctor or lawyer."

Btw, Mayberry was based on Griffith's real hometown, Mount Airy in North Carolina. It's a tourist attraction.

reply

For the most part you are reading into things that do not exist. The only evidence I would accept in terms of segregation are signs written or otherwise that say so. Mayberry had maybe 2,000 people and maybe 50 people were portrayed in that town. This means we do not know what the makeup and character was for 98 percent of the town. I never saw any signs on the show that said "whites only" or "colored people not allowed." What Griffith said decades after the fact or was pressured to say really had no bearing on it. I never heard Floyd the Barber or Wally the filling station owner say anything derogatory towards minorities on the show. Also, shows back then were budgeted cheap when it came to actors. There was never going to be a huge cast to reflect every person in a small town. A fair number of episodes only had Aunt Bea, Andy, and Opie in them. As said elsewhere in this forum minorities were probably fortunate not to be protrayed as a fair number of the characters shown would be on the other side of the law. After all Andy was the Sheriff and Barney a deputy so law enforcement would be the subject of a fair number of episodes. The Mayberry jail did have occupants in a fair number of episodes. Would it be fair to have all the law breakers white and nothing else? I think it is ridiculous to look for racism in a show that was about one small family and not much else. Their reach in the community was quite limited as it often happens in real life. Floyd and Goober were never invited to dinner once at the Taylors! Not once! Sure, there was racism in the South but it is quite a stretch to go looking for it on TAGS. As others pointed out bigotry comes in many forms and is directed at many people. But somehow I don't think that fits the agenda you have here.

reply

The small idyllic town and its sherrif who didn't normally carry a gun are what appeals to viewers.

Griffith had a say in the creative process and Mayberry is based on his hometown Mount Airy where there are still racial problems today.

The show was a feel good program, therefore showing discrimination and racism would've destroyed the illusion. Griffith decided not to deal with it. Realistically, there would've been a black part of town and limited prospects.

BTW, I was watching the show when it originally aired with my family and I still watch it today. I am a fan, but I'm also realistic about how blacks living in small southern towns, including fictional Mayberry, were treated.
https://www.visitmayberry.com/

On a similar note, Leave It to Beaver, another "feel good" show on rare occasions dealt with prejudices and issues like alcoholism. The bigoted mom didn't want her kids going to the poor Mexican garbageman's house across town or allow Beaver to play with a boy from a "broken home". Unlike Griffith, they addressed realistic themes a few times.

reply


,. Mount Airy where there are still racial problems today.


Examples?

reply

As you know, you can Google racism and any town/city and find issues. Often fictionized to fix a narrative.

Credible sources are usually the problem.

reply


I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt and would review any citation fairly, but at the same time, I don't know what his definition of racism actually is. When everything is racist, nothing is.

reply

Historically, he doesn't provide evidence. To my point, I did find a TripAdvisor report of racism in Mt. Airy.

reply

Griffith admits racism:

" The actor explained that African Americans at the time did not want to be portrayed in servant roles and "there is no way in some small town in the South that white people were going to flock to a black doctor or lawyer."

reply

"When everything is racist, nothing is."
That's a dumb comment.

Racism is the Jim Crow laws which were on the books throughout the South.

Btw, if you own an old house, look through your deed and other property records closely. The majority of them in the U.S. made it illegal to sell your house to black people. That was what partially kept neighborhoods segregated along with redlining and zoning.
https://www.npr.org/2021/11/17/1049052531/racial-covenants-housing-discrimination

reply


You said Mt. Airy still has racial problems today. I asked for examples. You've provided historical references which pretty much answered my question I suppose..

I've been through the South in the last few years and I have never seen anything that resembles racism. I live in the Northeast U.S. in a decidedly red town in a very blue state. Our "minority" is less than 4 percent, but despite my town being mostly white middle class, this is the best place I've lived in my 66 years.

reply

That garbage man and his sons were WASP as one can be. Beaver's snobbish mom was class conscious.

Neither parent had a problem with Beaver's Latin friend.

The family was empathic for the boy from the broken home (played by the great Barry Gordon) because parents ping-ponged him and his mother was depressed.

You are correct in saying LITB addressed more issues than most sit coms of the era.

reply

I find Mrs. Cleaver interesting because she has the prejudices which were common during that era. She thought it wouldn't be safe for the kids to go to the garbageman's house to play because it was in the poor area.

She said that the boy was "too mature for Beaver" because he came from a "broken home". That's a criticism of the boy himself, not the mother. Those terms are prejudiced. But, prejudice and stereotypes against divorced couples were common at the time.

Ward was more open-minded.

reply

You obviously missed my point in my prior post. Having minority characters often opens a Pandora's box. On a show that revolves around a sheriff and his deputy and the community jail would you accept a minority character being jailed for an offense? The show referenced that some of the offenders wound up in state prison. Some were fined for acts such as speeding with the Fun Girls. Would your take be that the offender got what they deserved or would you feel that the white sheriff and his deputy had their collective thumbs on the scales of justice against the offender?

You might have a better point if Andy were in charge of the local factory or superintendent of schools were he could expect to cross paths with hundreds of people with none being minorities. Or if he had a dozen kids and never had a minority friend that came to the Taylor house or dated a Taylor kid.

reply

You're missing the point that Mayberry clearly had a small black population and was in the South. There was racism in Mayberry. It would be unrealistic to think otherwise.

Why would a minority character play only a criminal? How about a schoolmate of Opie's, diner owner or a store clerk?

reply

Your reading comprehension is non-functional. You obviously did not read my second sentence. I allowed for Andy having many kids (as quite a number of Southern families did) and not one friend being a minority as an example of racism. Are you a bot? Mayberry had been mentioned as a town that had a couple thousand people and to take the Taylor's household of three as an example of racism is ridiculous. Three percent of anything is not a large enough sample size to draw a conclusion. Again, I would ask for examples actually provided on the show that would in turn demonstrate what is shown as racist. The question is about the show itself and not the South in general. Can you comprehend that? I have my doubts.

reply

Family Guy takes on the Andy Griffith Show:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=l67kTS3lSd8

Only Black character with speaking role:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lmilpkQrxtA

reply

Hahaha at Family Guy.

It would have been disingenuous for Mayberry to have been a happily integrated town in the 1960's.

reply

Exactly!

reply