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RonC (21)
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Do you know if the song is available on a CD? I haven't been able to find it on any Disney compilation...thanks!
Yes, Frank certainly had a bunch of women.
Interesting comment by Colin in his final confrontation with Costello to the effect of "is that what all this is about - all those women and no kids?" I wonder if Frank has a sexual problem too...or if Colin just feels like the rejected son (one more reason apart from self-preservation to kill Frank).
Colin might be afraid that shacking up with a police shrink is not a good look to Frank...dangerous for both him and Madolyn. Still, if Frank is the "co-signer" of the apartment (who else would it be?), presumably he could pop around any time.
Yeah, there are lots of interesting doublings, parallels, ironies etc in the film when you think of it.
Costello had two women with him at the opera (and maybe afterwards, who knows?). Maybe with women, drugs, opera, whatever, he just enjoys what he can get. He seems kind of blase about things: I guess when he's reached the level of (criminal) success he has and can basically have or do whatever he wants, he might be a wee bit bored with life. Costigan at least gives him a protege, a reminder of the past and someone to talk to (French is a companion of sorts, but more of a work associate).
The "is Colin gay?" questions is an interesting one to discuss. Or stressed, or at some level guilt-ridden...he does give Costigan, in a roundabout way, due credit at the end for his service even if it's to save his own skin - he did a good thing for a bad reason. If only Costigan had left that envelope where it was...
I agree Colin and Billy might have different sexual reactions to pressure (and perhaps to Madolyn).
I don't recall there being a marriage in the film between Colin and Madolyn (not such a good Catholic then?). I suspect if she brought up the idea of insurance or he found out, it would make him even more paranoid.
So - was the gang member who didn't give up Billy before he died an undercover federal agent or a regretful gangster who didn't want his last act to be ratting out Bill?
I agree, would be good to see another "straight" adaptation of Arthur. Ditto with the Greek myths. Agreed, sincerity is often hard to come by these days in movies (so is originality, but that's another story....). I quite liked Excalibur. I wonder if a straight version of The Sword in the Stone would work (the Disney film was not one of the studio's best efforts). Or a new version of Camelot where the leads could actually sing (not be dubbed or not so good)?
Agree re Madolyn/Costigan - he liked she wasn't a BSer.
There does seem to be a bit of surrogate-fathering going with Costello - though he's ultimately more paternal with Bill than Colin. He tells Bill he should wise up and go back to school (perhaps a lingering indication of his respect for Bill's father, who wasn't a crook) but with Colin, he's happy just to use him for dirty work (and keep him in the dark about things).
Agree re Dignam. He and Queenan certainly make a good cop/bad cop duo!
Agree re the Baldwin character. I guess he was another kind of cop to see besides the dedicated, the crooked and the hotheaded.
I didn't get the impression Costello molested Colin either, it's a theory that some have proposed. Costello didn't seem to really love anyone (Billy in a fatherly sort of way perhaps).
Colin seems at times to be protesting too much sexually - making a show of wolfwhistling at the woman in the office when his friend is watching, going on about how the firemen footballers are "a bunch of homos". I think he took Baldwin's advice re marriage helping career. Maybe Madolyn seemed convenient and a challenge ( he's conning people anyway, why not try it with her? She's nearby, she's good looking and bright and like him has to keep secrets, she's a "catch") though it's interesting he doesn't want her stuff in their apartment (for her safety in case Frank and the boys pop around? for his if word gets out about what she does working with police - too close for comfort?).
He might be closeted even to himself, of course, as you say. We do know had trouble performing sexually with Madolyn which might also be a sign of the stress he's under: Billy, otoh is more obviously stressed out but seems to have no problem having sex with her. And I agree, Billy is very probably the baby's father. At least Madolyn has a decent job to help support herself and the baby (I wonder if she had a life insurance policy on Colin...).
I agree Madolyn was unlikely to compromise like Kay, just a possibility to raise - I guess as someone used to working with police and ex-cons, she would have an interest in keeping the system clean ("sometimes people do get better"). She was, as you say, tough and gutsy and it seemed like Costigan recognised this (and of course didn't know about Colin) and respected her for it as well as falling for her. He needed to be able to trust somebody and with Queenan gone there weren't a lot of options.
Both he and Colin seemed to be quite alone: we don't hear anything as far as I recall about Colin's family, only surrogate "father" Costello. And as we know, Costello trusted Billy more than Colin. Billy's only other family we see is his aunt and cousin (and the latter is bad news, especially for someone raised to be honest).
Interesting re Dignam - yeah, in his new role he can just let rip,as you say, often for strategic purposes. Though picking a fight in public with Costigan probably goes a bit too far.
Agree re the rat problem. You would likely need to get someone completely from outside to try to sort through things, and that would take a lot of time to organise and get them up to speed, and would be obvious.
Am I being too harsh in judging Alec Baldwin's character as complacent and overly cynical about the job? He has little confidence in the police's ability to stop Costello ("marginally disrupt", ha ha). He certainly doesn't seem to be unduly concerned about the rat: even when Colin asks about the files and Baldwin refuses to give them to him )"You WANT those files"), it doesn't seem to raise the faintest suspicion about Colin in him. I don't think he's necessarily corrupt, but he doesn't seem terribly effectual.
What do you think about the speculation about Frank molesting Colin and/or Colin being gay/unable to conceive and/or the implication Madolyn's baby might be Billy's not Colin's? The last would seem to be a reasonable inference.
Thanks - interesting discussion. Agree re Costigan's final plan (which did work insofar as he exposed Colin posthumously: interesting that Colin gave Costigan the posthumous recognition he deserved and arguably Costigan ensured Colin would get what HE deserved...Just as well Madolyn was a good person (she might have done the Kay Corleone/Godfather thing and just lived with her husband despite her knowledge).
Dignam is said to have done "extensive" undercover work by Alec Baldwin's character when the latter is introducing him to the squad (before their foulmouthed macho banter). How such a hothead could have coped with the pressure that undercover work would entail is an interesting question (maybe he'd been bottling it up for years and his manner was his way of letting it all out...). He didn't seem to be doing undercover work now, agreed.
I know Colin was thought to be the golden child, but still, even Queenan (who seemed pure as the driven snow) could be tailed without anyone questioning it.
Dignam seemed to dislike Colin instantly on general principle - maybe suspicious of his fair-haired child status - and when he's not fighting with Billy, Dignam does at times reveal a grudging respect for the guy (SATS, "We need you pal").
I agree re Queenan and Dignam would not be expected to both be away but still, they ARE both cops, a dangerous line of work. And after Dignam walks out, there's only Queenan. Poor Costigan - the joys of being a pawn of the bureaucracy.
I was asking more about Colin Sullivan in terms of the police investigation. Everyone should've been investiaged and the too-complacent Ellerby would've been the obvious choice. Colin was lucky that Ellerby was so trusting - as was Costello with Bill but as you say there are reasons for this. Any ideas about my other questions? :)
I did think the Tobey Maguire films were good (that infamous silly emo dance aside) - I just wasn't sold on his performance. Peter even in the comics was good-looking, hardly a stereotypical nerd. Peter was flawed - remember how he used his powers for money and showing off and then his uncle was killed? And remained neurotic and haunted (how many times was comic-book Aunt May near death?). Thanks for not calling me a sock puppet. :)
He was dragging her towards the bedroom so it's not an unreasonable expectation. We know he was a sadist.
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