MovieChat Forums > arflexit > Replies
arflexit's Replies
"He could have made up any story he wanted to"
Do you even have a passport? He doesn't matter how you lost it, you would still have to go through the process of getting a new one. That takes weeks, kid.
"You said that because he was no longer a billionaire he wouldn't have been able to afford it, I'm not a billionaire and I've flown many times kid."
god, do you not even read what I wrote; I was not contesting he could afford a plane ticket I was contesting he would not have enough money to 'bypass' the process of getting a passport.
"sneaking onto a plane is within the abilities previously established in the other movies"
You have no proof of this; what other time did Bruce sneak onto a plane in the series? never happend. No proof, I am dismissing this point.
"My question still stands: How do you know the village was empty"
My question still stand: how do you know a car wasn't close by?
"Because there was not a car in sight when we last left Indy and Henry, therefore you are not justified in appealing to it."
Dude that is the EXACT SAME PROBLEM as the villagers not being in sight. Man you aren't just a hypocrite, you a low thinking one at that.
"Personal insults indicate you have run out of anything to say"
You started off with personal insults and being a condescending prick; which proves your argument are weak.
"The fact that he was a US citizen who was kidnapped might play a role in that"
So now it was well known that Bruce Wayne was kidnapped? and when he turned up at the embassy it didn't make media headlines? Get real dude, this is Bull.
"Also have you ever traveled by plane?"
Have you ever traveled by plane internationally. Bruce did NOT have his ID or passport, he would NOT be allowed to fly until he had those; it would take weeks for him to get it all processed. That wouldn't be a problem for a billionaire how could pay to expedite the process (NOT JUT BUY THE TICKET). Go try getting into the U.S. by flight without a passport; let me know how it goes.
"we have seen him just completely disappear in the blink of an eye, sneaking onto a plane"
LOL the security cameras wouldn't pick him up? how about airport security? He can 'disappear into shadows sure; but he can't turn invisible. I would love to see a actual practiced ninjutsu expert attempt what you claim Bruce could do; I promise you they would not make it.
"My question still stands: Where was this car? I didn't see a car, I saw them stranded on a beach in hostile territory with no resources. "
My question still stands: Where are the villagers? I ddin't see any villagers. I saw him stranded in the middle of Nowhere outside the pit with no money, ID or resources in unknown territory. It is the same exact problem.
"Them stealing this imaginary car is just fan fiction on your part."
WTF makes you think it imaginary. Does Ketchup have to be shown on camera for it to exist in the Indiana Jones universe? WTF dude. CArs are all over the place. YOU LITERALLY SEE THEM STEAL ONE IN THE VERY LAST SCENE. this is just insane levels of deluded denial on your part.
"You keep repeating yourself here kid,"
You keep repeating yourself to you hypocritical condescending douche bag. Drop the fucking kid stuff you freaking jack ass.
"Find nearest US embassy and get transportation back"
Even if he got to an Embassy he would have to wait to get a passport before being allowed to travel. Have you ever travelled internationally? it is not so 'easy' as just go to an embassy and get a ride. Also they would not pay for his plane ticket. If he had no money they would have him try to make contact with friends or family to pay for his ticket. AND it takes at least 4 weeks to get a passport processed. Again I would have no problem accepting Bruce could circumvent the process with his unlimited resources; BUT RISES SHOWS US HE IS NO LONGER A BILLIONAIRE.
"deception to stow aboard either a plane or ship o"
He is not going to get through an airpline security and sneak on a plane in modern times no matter how solid his ninja skills are; this is a asinine claim. CAn't travel by boat the minimum travel time is more than 23 days. You are just wrong on this 100%.
"You however cannot provide proof of this car so therefore the car is not an option."
https://www.energy.gov/eere/vehicles/fact-962-january-30-2017-vehicles-capita-other-regionscountries-compared-united-states
Look at the chart, numb nuts. just below 300 cars per 1000 people. You claim is like saying; you can't prove they used knives at dinner time in 1930's because you don't specifically see them. It was a regular commodity even in the 30's this means you can assume one is nearby. So, finding a car or motorcycle IS ABSOLUTELY AN OPTION. You are just incredibly 100% wrong on this in every way imaginable.
"stowing away on a boat"
A boat is not an option. Do a little research; trips across the Atlantic are 3 weeks minimum; across the pacific is 5 weeks minimum. Plane is the only option. How does he get through airline customs without a passport or ID? Think about it, can anyone trained in Ninjutsu sneak on to modern airlines? If so why aren't all terrorist experts in Ninjutsu?
"if the village were deserted or he couldn't speak the language that is your burden of proof."
That is NOT how burden of proof works. You are the one who claimed the village was nearby and he could go there to seek help. I point out flaws in this assumption on your part. I don't have to prove the flaws; the claim is yours and I am disputing it; meaning YOU have the burden of proof.
"there is no proof of any other car in the area"
Dude, how many times do I have to say it. IN EUROPE IN 1930'S THERE WAS 300 CARS PER 1000 PERSON. this means on average there would be a car within 5 miles in any direction. I like that you just keep ignoring this FACT because it disproves your claim totally.
"as soon as he gets transportation back to the states he is back the next day."
Sure if he had money or ID/Passport it would easy; but Rises specifically shows us he does not have those things. Meaning international travel within one month is going to be impossible through any regular means.
"Where is this car" "
The film doesn't have to show it. It is implied by the fact that they stole one car in the previous scene and cars are a regular commodity in Europe at that time. There is no reason to doubt they could and would steal another car within about 5 miles based on the proximity estimates.
Where are the villagers that help Bruce Wayne? Is he lucky enough to speak their language, these invisible villagers? It is next to the pit, are they not Bane Loyalist the same way all people in Europe were Nazi sympathizers (according to YOU)?
You don't know where Bruce is and by modern travel standards he cannot get back into the U.S. without identification which he does not have. If he crossed into the US illegally it would take weeks for him to complete the trip.
"he know he was close to civilization,"
You don't know the circumstances of the nearby village; it could have been deserted or hostile. You don't know; you are making up excuses (this is much more egregious than your claim of "invisible cars")
" Indy was not."
What the hell are you talking about; they were just on a road and there was a car that they stole. That means they are pretty close to civilization; numb nuts. My god man just think for a second.
"Plus we know his stills and he is a trained ninja who had no problem moving from place to place in the previous films. "
In previous films he had either unlimited reasources or unlimited time. He had neither of those in Rises.
"I see no indication that is indys skill set. You’re comparing apples and oranges."
Indy literally just stole a car in the last scene and there is no indication that he could not do so again. In Rises we are not given ANY details of how Bruce accomplishes getting back to Gotham we only know the limitations, of which he has many. That is why in Rises it IS a plot hole do to missing details while in Last Crusade it is not because the details are freaking obvious.
I don't know if ROTS is really worth a "second chance". I think its pacing and action (and I agree the "opera" like feel of it are some redeeming qualities) but not enough to make up for the really cringe dialogue; the questionable aspects of the plot, the extreme inconsistancy of character progression for Anakin's tranformation to Vader. (He is good and caring but then moments later he is murdering children? come on you have to do the leg work and show him descending into that.) Then again he does kill women and children in AOTC so maybe I am wrong.
" Get over it son"
more condescension. You are worthless at arguing. You can't insult you way out of shit arguments you now.
"it is a film technique used to imply a certain passage of time"
List every example of shots of sunrises used in film then prove 100% that all those shots represented it was the specific next day in film time. You made the claim; burden of proof is on you to prove that sunrise = next morning.
" with no resources or transportation, any explanation you can offer is just fan fiction and this is a major plot hole."
But how the fuck is it not a plot hole in Dark kight rises when it is the SAME EXACT SCENARIO? Only difference is we know about how far way indy and Henry are away from Hatay and have no idea where Bruce is at. Jesus man; stop doubling down on your personal interpretation and look at the fact and evidence. You suck at this.
" kid."
can't help being a condescending prick can you? You provided no evidence only bullshit. "the sunrise shot proves it was next morning" is your interpretation not evidence. You provided nothing else. I on the other have provided tons of evidence and you just selectively ignored it. You are the worse atheist ever.
" 23 days is ample time for him to get anywhere he wants to go. "
No, Wrong he has no ID, no passport and no money. it is not just getting to a plane or ship; he wouldn't be allowed to just enter the U.S. without identification he would prove who he was and then wait for his passport to process (minimum of 4 weeks). If he was still a billionaire he would be able to 'bypass' the wait process; but rises goes out of the way to show that he was no longer a billionaire.
Also if it was a ship it is about an 18 day trip across the Atlantic (for example 24 days from Port of Alexandra to Port New York and about a 60 day trip across the Pacific; And that is depended on him finding a ship heading that way within a couple of days after escaping, sneaking on and surviving without food for almost 3 weeks but then being in fighting condition when he arrives. There is no way to get around this, it stretches realism to the max and IMO it crosses the line.
Of course all of this depends on where the pit was which the film does say; but it is clearly somewhere very remote and third world. it would have to be somewhere in Central America for him to make it back in time; literally any other place on the planet and he does make it.
This is why I argue it is surreal (breaks from realism).
Any way, I got to get my kids to bed now; I had my movie chat fun; my wife is getting made at me. lol Have a good one. Catch ya next time.
Yeah, I think I keep coming back to TFA specifically because 1 it seriously 'offended' my intelligence and disrespected Lucas' OT. And combine that with the ridiculous defenses of the film and the fact that most general audience are still blaming TLJ for the sequels being a disaster. It drives me nuts that the lazy nostalgia trip that undermined the OT in everyway still is getting such a pass. and it is even worse because they did have the OT cast ready to be used and wasted it (while humiliating their legacy). I don't take kind to be metaphorically slapped. And I want these movies to be remembered for the horrors of film-making they were.
Yeah, true the 'lazy carbon copy' nature of TFA does kind of give a little bit of an appreciation for the attempts at originality of the prequels; but they are just too bad to overlook the massive amounts of flaws.
Yeah, I can see it being like a dramatic opera; over the top imagery and extremely deep expressions of emotions. I would say it is fairly successful at that. I also have a huge amount of respect for the pacing of that film; It is one of the best paced action films that I know of; constant correct building of tension telling everything it needs to effectively and without wasting any time. There might have been performance, delivery, plot and general script issues but it is edited and paced perfect (IMO). Yeah the "NOOOOOO!" was terrible and that scene was going well to; I even liked the vomiting sounds he is making while the room is getting force shredded. It was awesome then, aargh.
I agree that Williams is almost always great. Even when the film is utter garbage if Williams did the music it at least has that. But even with TFL and TLJ I feel like he under-performed. There was not one memorable melody; I blame that on the pacing though; there is no chance ever to let Williams shine; the passing is just fucking so damn frantic when is his music supposed to stand out.
Yeah; one of the things I said is 'you need to start TFA off where people expect the heroes to be before they are defeated and their efforts fail'. And you have to show the efforts fail. Doing it offscreen was a slap in the face. I agree fully with the idea they can fail and it would be a deep and interesting story to watch them fail; but they needed to show it and not just say it happened offscreen in the 30 year gap.
Good analogy about Lennon and Berry/ Yoko. You can't drastically through in elements that are not part of the classic style; you have to slowly and carefully migrate them into the system or you will break it.
YES; the idea of "Luke, Han and Leia were incompetent failures lets get the 'new kids' (mostly Rey) to show them how to get the job done right" was just so insulting and unacceptable in every sense of the words. NO, NO, NO that was BullShit. You call it 100% correct on this one.
Yeah, I agree on all of this 100%; I think you would love my custom version of the OT I made. I was able to clean up almost everything take out all that crap you mention; the only one I couldn't do was Mos Eisly arrival scene; there is just no way to do that and not seriously downgrade the video quality; unfortunately.
Yeah; good call on McDiarmid fix in ESB; that one I kept in my version too. That was an OKAY fix in my book along with the special effects fixes.
Yub Nub is not terrible but I just prefer the victory celebration music a little more; it is a bit more epic for the closing scene; IMO.
Yeah; I loved Revenge of the Sith a lot when it came out; it had a lot of that stupid cool stuff; I was in my early 20's when it came out. so I was at that ripe age of being taken in by stupid cool. lol
Oh I will; I am already thinking about it more now and thinking "yeah, their fight style is much more akin to the Kendo" they are masters so good they can't just do the swing swords flashy fighting or they would die too fast; it is careful and calculated attack and defense. Pretty cool actually.
IMO, I am with you; I just don't have steam anymore to sit through new star wars. TFA killed it for me; TLJ (even rogue one) just confirmed it was dead to me. I don't have any intention of watching the rest of Mandalorian; from the episodes I saw it is not worth getting invested into; it was not bad but it was just not interesting enough to justify me getting back into new star wars material. if that makes sense.
Yeah; some people that suddenly say "see the prequels were good all along" just because the sequels suck too, kind of annoy me. Just because the prequels were bad does not make the sequels better; and vice versa just because the Sequels are arguably worse does not mean the prequel somehow get any better.
I agree that the Prequels have tonal issues in each film. It just doesn't work well. ROTS for me is a guilty pleasure. I think the pacing (building tension and no time wasted) and the action sequences are very well done and there are a few redeeming qualities to it; some of the visuals were well done, the fight scenes (though more like dances) are a impressive thing to watch; Ian McDiarmid is just awesome as the emperor. and there are some interesting concepts about dogma and corruption leading to rise of tyrants. The sequence of emperor giving the senate speech about the end of the republic while Anakin is wiping out the 'separatist' leadership is a freaking awesome scene by itself.
Oh and the music is freaking great (Williams at his best). Now there is a lot wrong with the film too But IMO it by itself has at least has enough redeeming qualities to be equally "okayish" to Rogue One. Still way below the OT.
The special editions efforts to touch up the special effect I do not mind either; in fact my 'custom' version of the OT I made includes all the special edition enhancement of these scenes (while trying to cut out the unnecessary CGI monstrosities in the background and the unnecessary 'additional" scenes. So I agree with you there.
Yeah sometimes people get stupid "cool" ideas in their head just to make something look 'badass' without much thought to what that 'cool' visual will interfere with. That 'vader vs Obiwon' enhanced fighting does not fit or work for me at all, despite it looking good.
interesting comparison on that video. It is not flashy and doesn't look 'cool' but man oh man you can tell there is a lot going on. Thanks for sharing that; I will keep it in mind next time I watch ANH hope.
"But if that happens, I need to see it. The story/ writers have to *earn* that."
Exactly; you can't just off screen say the victory of Han, LUke and Leia failed and push them off to the side just so you can retell the same Rebel Vs Empire story; that is such a slap in the face to the OT; and as you said they have to "earn" that.
I agree on this and we can say most of the ideas are work able; it is okay for the OT heroes to fail to stop a new threat and they have to pass the torch to new heroes to continue the good fight. But you have to show why they failed; the filmmakers had to do the heavy lifting and leg work to earn that; and they did not bother. Just lazily pushed their failure off screen and said "it happened, deal with it" not even considering how out of character they all had to be for them to end up like they did. Just lazy and a slap in the face of the OT story Lucas created.
I watched the first 3 episodes drinking with friends; it was okay but not great, I quickly lost interest. IMO from those first 3 episodes it was overrated. There is so much time of him walking around stiffly and the story really doesn't pick up much steam. and I find Baby Yoda to be manipulative nostalgia a very little more than that. But I didn't finish it and don't have much interest to finish it TBH.
IMO the sequels are terrible and worse than the prequels but that DOES NOT make the prequels good. The prequels are an example of good ideas horribly executed. They manage to still fell like star wars but really really bad star wars, if that makes sense.
"TFA squeaks by because they cribbed the bulk of their plot from Lucas' near-perfectly structured original."
I think the combination of undermining the OT worldbuilding in order to 'recycle' Lucas' "near-perfectly structured original" and then not bother to fill in any gaps instead rely on open ended unanswerable mystery boxes is even worse than the poorly structure scripts of TLJ And TROS.
IMO TFA does far more harm to the overall STar WArs lore, continuity and mythos but then TLJ and TROS just continue on the trend of undermining and retconning both the OT and each other. I fell that this was inevitable because of how TFA started the 'new' story. This is why I say that TFA is the worst Star Wars film (even though I can't say that for sure without seeing Solo and TROS).
I have seen that before. I agree with you sure it looks 'cool' in a video gaming sort of way. But man it does not fit at all with the camera work or tone of the scene at all. It is another example of editing disaster. Sure it was fan made so don't want to judge it too harshly; but that 'cool' look of it was way too much.
I don't mind them trying to find a way to touch up the lightsaber fight between vader and obi-wan for fun but the 'forms' they are using should not change and the tone and motion of the scene should not be so dramatically different from the rest of the sequence. It is story and cinematography sacrificed for a cool fight scene and visuals. This (IMO) is about equal with what JJ did in TFA.
Anyone that says this should canon doesn't understand film making in the slightest and I question how much of a 'fan' of star wars they actually are. From a story telling standpoint and film making stand point the scene is perfect as is (even with the actors and fight choregraphy being a little stiff).