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whitelighter (28)
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Glen Oak
'Felicity' crossover
'Charmed' crossover
prequel
Homicide Unit?
Peter Berg on ER
Noah Wyle on Chicago Hope
which episode is this?
existence of Kyle Reese in the altered timeline
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HAD Stayed On Longer, not 'Would've' Stayed On Longer!!!
William Peterson's acting in this movie seemed kind of half-hearted, like he wasn't really taking it seriously. If he'd put a little more zest in his performance I would prefer him to Edward Norton, though, because Peterson had a more street-wise, cynical demeanor, like someone experience a dark inner turmoil.
The closed loop theory certainly does have it's flaws, but there are problems with the opposing school of thought too. I mean, supposing there was an original timeline where John was fathered by someone else. Then in the first time-loop, the T-800 and Kyle Reese are sent back, and Kyle fathers John. In the second time-loop, unless they were sent back to an earlier time, wouldn't there be two T-800's and two Kyle Reese's in 1984? Or if that isn't the case, then why send Kyle Reese #2 back in time to replace Kyle Reese #1 if they already knew that Kyle Reese #1 could defeat the Terminator (assuming there even WAS a Kyle Reese #2, since events in the first time-loop would've thrown everything off kilter)?
I comprehended fully before what you said. I think you're not comprehending what I'm saying. We keep going around in circles. To a certain extent I think it's just a question of interpretation, though it's sort of moot-point, since the whole premise of the movie is flawed no matter which way you interpret it.
[quote]that second picture would be identical to the first picture, because the first picture is the one Reese was given by John in the future. [/quote]
It WOULDN'T be identical to the first picture if the events in this loop weren't identical to those of the previous loop. And the events wouldn't BE identical, because in this loop Reese has the photo - he didn't in the previous loop. And the events in the following loop wouldn't be identical to those in the THIS loop, because the photo he has in that loop wouldn't identical to the one he has in this loop. And so on and so on. Even the subtlest difference in the photo would alter the events ever so slightly. None of the subsequent loops in the template you've proposed could produce a photo that's identical to the one in the previous loop, because its events would never be completely identical to those in the previous loop. That's why this only works as a bootstrap paradox.
Nothing you've said in any of your posts refutes MY assertion that Kyle was always John's father and that there never could've been a different father.
[quote]the music dated it pretty quickly.[/quote]
Because the centered on music, and the show featured trendy music at the time. Yet oddly, what little music there is in the Brady Bunch doesn't seem as dated to me ("Clowns Never Laughed Before", "Sunshine Day").
I did read your whole post the first time.
"How can any picture taken for the first time be exactly the same as any
other picture?"
The picture wouldn't have been IDENTICAL to the picture that's taken at the end of the movie if events hadn't played out EXACTLY the same as they did in the movie.
"that doesn't even hypothetically make sense."
It makes sense if you subscribe to the idea of an infinite time-loop with no beginning or end, which I think is what Cameron was trying to portray.
"if you're John Connor in 2029 and you see that a Terminator has just been sent back to 1984 to kill your mother, the fact that you're still there and nothing has change"
Kyle would've also realized at that point that they were in a time-loop, because otherwise the Terminator going back in time would've changed the future, regardless of whether he succeeded or failed. I actually see it as two overlapping time-loops, given that Kyle and the Terminator didn't depart 2029 or arrive in 1984 at exactly the same time. But as you pointed out, John had no reason now to send Kyle back, so the time-loop idea kinda caves in on itself anyway.
"the events play out similar to the movie. The picture is taken for the first time."
It wouldn't be the exact same picture if events hadn't played out [i]exactly[/i] the way they did in the movie ... and events wouldn't have played out exactly the way they did in the movie if Kyle Reese had not had that photo.
So yes, Kyle Reese was always the father. There never could've been an "original father".
Sorry, somehow I accidentally deleted my previous post. But yeah, I see now that everything Sarah could have done between the present and future had already been done when John arrived in the future. I guess I was going by the notion established in T2 that the future can be altered and a new timeline created, but I guess that would only work in a time-loop. Simply travelling TO the future, the concept of multiple timelines is lost.
But I still don't like this as the end of the series. What I like about T1, T2 and most of TSCC is that it could conceivably be happening here & now, not off in a hypothetical future.
I may have to go back and re-watch, but I seem to remember Cameron stating at one point that the Kyle Reese from this new timeline would still be sent back in time to father John (can't remember which episode). But sending him back now would change everything and create yet another timeline, wouldn't it? The only reason for doing so would be if the machines sent another terminator back to 1984 to kill Sarah.
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