Odd. I happen to like The Poseidon Adventure. I was raised on MST3K. What's your point? You'd go to work everyday if you were stuck in a groundhog day loop? I'd probably shut off my cell phone and say "#@^$ those people" then go do whatever it was I wanted to do with the day. If I had to deal with them I'd rather deal with Deebo. He's a bully but he seems to be mostly honest. Big Worm is the kind of jerk who'd hamstring you and you'd never know what his intentions are. I'd rather deal with a thug than a weasel. I just hope that people who read this also investigate the contributions of John von Neumann in the architecture of modern computing, if they're inclined to understand these kinds of concepts. Turing did a lot of fundamental work and von Neumann conceptualized a lot of the modern mechanics of digital computing that can directly translate into the machine sitting in front of you or in your hand. Whatever the case may be. I'm also surprised by the number of typos in this thread. The entire thread, just not the respondent GP. Spell check is one of the greatest gifts of general use computers to the common public. "always had enough money for liquor and cigarettes." That's part of what keeps the poor in their financial situation. There's a lot of poor folk who lean on these vices from day to day. But you're right, I've known a lot of drinkers who tried to get into the bar business and drank themselves into bankruptcy. I doubt a liquor store would have made them any richer. Psst.... it was capitalism back then but it was a capitalism where the *consumer* held to these ideals. A business being open doesn't mean you have to go and spend money. Stay at home, get the family together. Stop feeling the need to have 400 channels so you can watch slop instead of having time with your family. Keep a reign on the internet/video game/cell phone use. But first it starts with you doing this instead of thinking that businesses need to do something instead. I really wish that Americans (and probably most of the rest of the western world) would put the weight of change on their shoulders instead of waiting for someone else to do it or expecting government to legislate it. It may not make a big change in society but if this is what you want for your life then get to it. Stop thinking you're a victim of a society. You do not have to participate on the same level as your neighbors. It's ok to live life on your own terms. I laughed. I won't say it couldn't be any dumber but any sane person who thinks that this is "sciencing the $#@^" out of anything needs a refresher course in middle school science. But then again, it could have been Armageddon. We can detect electromagnetic radiation from billions of lightyears away TODAY. I'd like to think they're up to the challenge 300 years from now, not to mention that we're able to detect the ECHO from supernova off of nebula that are hundreds of lightyears from the original blast (https://phys.org/news/2005-12-astronomers-echoes-ancient-supernovae.html). It's hard to say what a planet (a large classification of objects) would leave behind as a signature but the fact that it was enough to significantly change the orbit of another planet tells you what kind of energy we're dealing with. And they were terraforming: terraform [ˈterəˌfôrm] VERB terraforming (present participle) (especially in science fiction) transform (a planet) so as to resemble the earth, especially so that it can support human life. "So, Reliant's sensors would collect this data point, as well as all the other data points before and after that point. The computers would need to render it and log it and the crew would have to notice it. All for something they are not looking for. " A massive energy event from a star system they're going to is kind of a big deal. I'm pretty sure the system would bring it to their attention. "Now, as I have said previously, when they arrived they should have noticed that a planet was missing. But would they have cared." Would a crew on a scientific mission of terraforming a planet care that the planet is obviously out of its orbit? Would a crew on a scientific mission find the need to go over even the high level notes on a star system they were going to try an experiment in? Hmmmm... let's see... At that rate I guess those guys don't even make sure their petri dishes are clean. "My main argument with you is you believe that any of these ships have immense resources for scanning and correlating data, that those resources are in constant operation, and that the crew has the time or inclination to pay attention to every bit of data that is collected." We have those resources today. Why don't you understand that? Mostly because you're a troll, I'm guessing. Going through the aftershock of this event would also be a pretty big deal. Do you think a ship on the sea would just shrug off a 100' wave that appears out of a calm sea if they knew their port of destination is the origin of the wave? That's what we're talking about here. You are seriously missing the point and now I know you're doing it on purpose. You're moving the goalposts and never addressing the points I make. That makes you a troll. Most of what you're asking for I never claimed. What I am saying is that an event (do you know what an event is?) would be noted when Ceti Alpha VI blew up. A starship traveling to Ceti Alpha VI would also observe the shockwave (it's not an event horizon, a totally different concept) as part of its regular operations. People had already been to the system. The Enterprise is on a voyage of exploration and at the very least the orbit of Ceti Alpha V would have been noted and the returning science mission would have noted that the planet is not in the same orbit it was in before. BTW: when Ceti Alpha VI had its event it would have thrown CA-5 farther from the orbit of CA-6. CA-5 would not have taken the orbit of CA-6. Unless you address what I'm saying point for point then you're just trying to dig your troll hole even deeper. Have a nice day. You seriously don't know and I'm glad you won't be replying again. Your ignorance is outstanding even as I've given you examples of exactly what I'm talking about. It's like you're going out of your way to miss the point. What I'm talking about is believable because it's a fact even with current technology. We most certainly are monitoring this kind of thing today. I see you don't understand modern astronomy. Just like we monitor weather. Or do you think there is someone with binoculars, a rain gage, a thermostat and barometer who's scrawling down every detail and sending it off to be collected and calculated by hand then sent off to a HTML coder to create weather forecasting web sites? Seriously, go do some reading. That's the reason I pointed out GRB 080319B. No one was looking for it or at it in a fashion that you seem to propose is the only way to know this. We have automated systems that are reporting at all times and when abnormalities arise it's flagged by this automated system it is analyzed by humans to get a better idea of what's happened. And as these automated systems become more sophisticated they're bearing on even heavier loads. In 300 years these observations will be trivial and the correlation of data will be even more universal. I don't know why you don't understand these basic methods. It's 2019. We have great automated systems that are taking care of these observations. I'm sorry that you haven't taken the time to familiarize yourself with them. Now excuse me as I go to take a temperature reading in my freezer to make sure it's still cold enough or I'll have to hand crank the compressor... after all, automation is a nice dream but in reality? Yeah... There is no possible way for a star ship to have left the star system when they originally left Khan there and have another star ship come back years later without finding evidence of the event known to have happened to Ceti Alpha VI. They would have crossed the energy signatures of the event at some point. It is physically impossible for this not to happen. We have probes today that are based on 1960s technology and launched in the 1970s that are still reporting back to earth today that would have detected this kind of event. If we're doing this today a star ship in the future would find this kind of detection trivial. And we do not need anyone to actively observe the actual star system for evidence of this. Do you really think someone had some kind of scope pointed at GRB 080319B* when we detected it? Yes, while there are active sky surveys that use traditional optical methodologies there are tons of other ways of detecting high energy events today that aren't "pointed" anywhere but still pinpoint the origins of these events with great accuracy. We're talking about modern day techniques that would easily have detected the events described in the movie. A star ship would doubtlessly be actively detecting high energy events of this nature as well. *Yes, I know that GRB 080319B is a very extraordinary event but even at that it originated from far outside our galaxy. The scale of the event is virtually inconceivable in comparison but we're still talking about technology that would have matured by another 300 years from where we are today. The Enterprise was there. Chekov was on the Enterprise. Chekov returns years later. If the star fleet is sending spaceships back to conduct a scientific test I'm kinda guessing they know the history and anatomy of the star system that hosts the test planet. I think it is you who's not getting my point. "IF we can observe all stars within a few thousand light years and can update it quickly, we will no what is happening between 5 and a few thousand years ago as it happened then, not as it is happening now." In cosmology when we speak of "now" we're speaking from a frame of reference. You're still dodging the FACT that the same person visited the same star systems multiple times so any claims that no one would have known are pretty easily put to bed. If a star ship can get there in that time frame communications (via subspace communication) can also be had. And, yes, I like to think that if star fleet is going to commit to such a high end experiment in a star system the ship sent to survey the system would be fully informed of the history of said system. I'm agreeing too, had he gone where he belong he may have lived. "I feel like with all the stuff available in the 23rd century, its easy to make characters survive things." At least if you're not wearing a red shirt it does. Just to add a bit to this conversation about building techniques in southern California: https://www.latimes.com/home/la-hm-basement-side-20150509-story.html It seems that it's more a traditional thing than anything else. Mind you, this article was written 33 years after Poltergeist was released, who knows how new these techniques are. The body was alive when he brought it to the bridge. I think the slug thing is more about the medical knowledge and technology being available when Chekov was evacuated. Without immediate treatment Chekov may not have survived. Since we're ripping into the science of sci-fi... Ceti Alpha is so far away but the light from the event hasn't reached us but a starship has returned? Automated systems means that no one has to be looking at the right place at the right time. We're aware of all kinds of events in the universe with no eyes looking. The advancements we have in automated observation already is amazing. In another 50 years there will be next to nothing happening within a few thousand lightyears of earth that we won't be aware of as it happens. By the time we're doing our own Star Trek? We won't have to go, we'll know. "But having been years, it might not occur to him to check out the number of planets and their positions. Careless, yes, but also possible." Humanity was sophisticated enough to notice a small deviance in the orbit of a planet to predict the existence of another yet-observed planet back in the 1840s. In the 1990s we found the first exoplanet by deviations in the timing of ticks from a pulsar that has a rotational period of 0.006219 seconds. I'm pretty sure the instruments of the time (while doing a scientific survey of the area) are going to detect a planet that shifted enough to change its climate significantly.