From what we saw in this movie, nothing done in the past had any effect on the future, which means they were dealing with an alternate timeline situation. So if the future earth was FUBAR, why not just evacuate to the past? There was no reason to stick around and fight it out and sure as hell no reason to force past people into that meat grinder of a war.
shareIt would cause a population spike, “Grays Sports Almanac” situations, etc, etc.
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They said the future population is only 500,000 people. That wouldn't even be considered a population blip.
As far as future knowledge goes, the second they popped up in that soccer stadium, they drastically altered the course of future events, so any advantageous info on the future would be limited. Plus, they'd probably be more concerned with not being eaten instead of getting rich.
Considering the reluctance of world leading nations when it comes to accepting small amounts of immigrants from warn-torn countries in real life, the arrival of 500,000 people would be considered more than a “blip”… particularly when you take into account that they have enough future knowledge to manipulate politics, share markets, technological advancement and so on.
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The US has 350 million people alone. 7 billion on the whole planet. Another half million would be nothing statistically. Plus as you said, these people would give any nation housing them an instant advantage over the rest from a tech standpoint, so they'd be fools to complain.
And to be honest, they don't need to ask permission. If half a million refugees from the future suddenly appeared, short of rounding them up and executing them, we really have no way to refuse them.
these people would give any nation housing them an instant advantage over the rest
After the US wars in the middle east European countries aborbed literally millions of refugees. We are talking about a country with a population of 80m taking in a million refugees. 500k is 0.005% of the world population. It wouldn't even be noticed.
shareJust a note, there was over 1 500 000 migrants that came into Europe in 2015. More than 500 000 come into US every year. Accepting 500 000, most of whom are far more motivated to integrate and make new lives for themselves than migrants, wouldnt have done shit.
shareSomeone didn't take any notice.
The ones going to the future would have been dead before the war begun, this is why they are drafted. The people in the future are children that had not been born yet so the parents of those did not get drafted.
It is clearly stated that they are taking the ones form the past to give the ones in the future more time to come up with a biological weapon. They know they are dying and so the whole point was to gain enough time to find a weapon to kill them all the aliens.
Going back in time would have solved nothing as the aliens were all ready here under the ice and so the war would start all over again.
This is all clearly explained throughout the movie. It is not an alternate timeline.
Oh I noticed just fine. The problem is the movie is attempting to operate under multiple time travel rules at once/
This is all clearly explained throughout the movie. It is not an alternate timeline.
the movie is attempting to operate under multiple time travel rules at once
how is it she grew up in a world where no future people traveled back to the past
It hasn't happened yet.
For example you live your life normally and figure out time travel 30 years from now, you then go back in time, no one witnessed it originally because it hasn't happened until you do it. Exactly the same in the film. No one ever saw it before because it was the first time it had happened. Not really that hard to comprehend.
Exactly this. The fact that future wasn’t changing shows different timelines. It’s like in DBZ when future trunks goes back in time. He knows his future will stay the same but wants to prevent it happening to other futures.
What this movie was doing was dragging people from the past to the future which honestly doesn’t make sense and doesn’t feel like any nation would send troops to help once that death toll came back. Like hell it took them a couple days to figure out where the aliens originate. Your telling me future people hadn’t already figured that out? They were obviously studying them so they Defs would have discovered this. Or hell would have sent samples back for us to study.
It’s a fun movie but if you think about it for more than a minute you start realising the plot makes no sense.
It would solve plenty - it would give humanity 30 years to prepare for the big war. We are talking major advancements in weaponry, analysis of the alien biology/tactics/etc. Imagine prepping half of humanity for war - right now we have maybe 5 percent prepped for war, if not even less. If you also know the first place where aliens show up, you can build extreme amount of military forces in that region to counter the alien threat when it emerges.
region to counter the alien threat when it emerges
Imagine being able to capture live aliens and NOT sending one speciment into the past to be researched by a far, far larger research capability than "one surviving laboratory in the world".
shareThe people in the future are children that had not been born yet so the parents of those did not get drafted.
But if your entire plan is to simply make time to develop a weapon to kill them why not simply send back the information and creature samples to the past where you would then have 30 years to perfect it without the worry of aliens attacking your lab while you worked on the weapon? Remember when Muri is working on the toxin she doesn't actually need the entire creature only some samples from it. So why not simply send back sample of the alien to the past and let the people there develop a toxin which could have easily been made into an aerosol version in the 30 year time so that when the aliens popped up you could have just flown over them like a crop duster and wiped them all out. This sending people to fight in the future was a stupid contrived plot vehicle that simply made no sense. Smart enough to travel in time but not smart enough to use the ability to easily solve the problem of developing alien bug spray.
shareAll of this /\
shareIt was absolutely an alternate timeline.
shareHaven't seen the movie yet but ... if they discover the aliens in the future frozen in ice (i understand) why not just send back in time the information so they DON'T Unfreeze the aliens????
shareHaven't seen the movie yet but
Not quite an assumption, was based on ... your post.
you did say "Going back in time would have solved nothing as the aliens were all ready here under the ice" and apparently we know it was in Russia ..
Ok, watched it. And it kinda went in my direction, lol.
shareThe problem is the way the manage time travel in the movie. It’s extremely “writers tool” heavy. They cannot pick where exactly to travel and they can’t build more time machines. The reasons they give for these are extremely stupid and clearly just exist to make the plot of the movie possible. So you have to simply go with it.
The movie is indeed operating in multiple timelines, they even state it on the movie itself. When muri admits they are pretty much dead but wants to save her dads timeline by sending the toxin back.
They are pretty clear about how the ones in the future are doomed to die. They never say that if he goes back with the toxin and kills the aliens before the war stars then he saves future muri and everyone else.
At the very best he erases that timeline altogether, which isn’t that different from killing them all anyway.
Basically, future people died.
even given the plot required limitations on the time travel they still cold have done a lot different
shareI think they built the whole time travel idea to fit their plot line, in this sense they eventually came up with a solution so that people in the past could destroy the aliens before they even reproduced.
The problem for me is that the solution (toxin) ended up being absolute nonsense and the fate of the world (universe? Cosmos! Reality! ALL DIMENSIONS!) laid in the hands of Chris Pratt MMA beating the crap out of an alien because the toxin ended up being nonsense.
But then again this is why I watch these types of movies. Chris Pratt ground and pounding an alien yelling “DIEEEEEEEE!” Then the movie makes fun of that very same thing.
Well that's because the movie has to go pander to the woke warriors and explain that it was global warming that allowed the aliens to become unfrozen. Of course then the question is why not send back all sorts of advanced technology from the future to be further advanced in the next 30 years and repeat that over and over until mankind is so advanced that the alien invasion just become a nuisance that is easily eliminated. Would make a lot more sense than taking people from the past to the future.
shareYeah, there was an episode of Star Trek where a planet was doomed so they sent the entire population to a point in the past of their choosing.
shareLet's say is o.k to get everyone back but then they would have to re-fight the same fight they were losing just 30 years down the line again with few hundred thousand people extra (plus this would be a question mark as per below anyway)
Muri didn't travel back from the future because she already existed in the present timeline as a young girl - so would that have created a paradox and one being wiped out?
Lets say only the people who went back are the younger girls/guys who weren't born as yet in the present timeline then what would have happened if say a girl came back - would she live with her mum or her dad who probably haven't even lived together yet? the kid is same age as there parents? if they did live together then what would happened if the wife got knocked up would there be 2 exact same girls - one a baby and one an adult - another paradox? if they didn't have sex on time to have the baby girl would the future girl living in the present disappear abit like Marty Mcfly as the parents never had her in the first place?
Yeah they'd have to still fight the aliens, but the first time around, it was a sneak attack from an unknown enemy. The people in 2022 would have 26 years to prepare and assuming they don't butterfly effect history too much, they know exact time and place it happens. Armed with foresight, in a likelihood they should crash the aliens( even if Pratt didn't find the ship first).
Also, I don't think time paradoxes are a thing with multiverse rules. You could meet your own mother (hell you could kill your own father) before you were born and it wouldn't mean a thing since it's a different timeline.
They weren't using laser or plasma guns in the future but seemed to be similar automatic guns, helicopters and f-22/f-35 in the future, so not really alot of future stuff to help them defend themselves in the present, even with the advantage of knowledge they would have been outnumbered again but maybe take longer than 30 years this time to get defeated, and even if they manage to defeat the white spikes then they still lose a whole lot of the population fighting them.
The alien death toxin was the best way to kill the aliens before they started to increase in numbers - destroying the ship was even better.
but it wasn't a multiverse but a multi-timeline - the present timeline which would have become the future timeline - the only difference was the new branch of timeline created when the future people came back - but if those people stayed in the present would they still existif they were never born or would they cease to exist as they are still following a timeline? or there would be 2 of them a baby and an adult - if both can exist in the same timeline then would you have child muri living with adult muri in the same house - would adult muri tell young muri what happen's to her while she grows up? will adult muri date a friends of her parents? i don't know if you seen multiplicity with Michael Keaton would it be that adult muri lives another life somewhere else away from her parents?
They weren't using laser or plasma guns in the future
They had infinate ammo guns though :)
They also had a bad habit of having aliens that were in one scene immune to bullets and then in another were easily blown apart by them. They couldn't even stay consistent with the alien weaknesses. Remember the one guy says they are only vulnerable in 2 spots but later we see you could easily blow off or cut off their dart shooting tentacles, or easily blow their heads off with a gun... You really had to ignore logic completely when watching this crapfest.
shareI agree, but which sci-fi movie didn't - remember how tough the aliens were in 'aliens' when they first attacked and took out most of he team plus how tough they were in there safe medical room and afterwards at the end how easy Ripley kicked there ass when she went on her own to find newt- that's most sci-fi movie logic - so that doesn't make this movie bad but inconsistent yes.
shareremember how tough the aliens were in 'aliens' when they first attacked and took out most of he team plus how tough they were in there safe medical room and afterwards at the end how easy Ripley kicked there ass when she went on her own to find newt
Let me defend Aliens for a minute here: I don't think the power level of the aliens fluctuated much throughout that movie, but let's go scene by scene.
in the first scene you mentioned, the hive ambush scene, the marines were... well ambushed and totally unprepared. That's why many of the marines were taken out - they did not get clear shots on them, maybe with the exception of the one that got smartgunned by Vasquez (acid spraying Drake to death) and the one that got a point blank shotgun shot through it's mouth. Both were instantly killed, showing they can be killed by bullets.
In the second scene, the medical room... I'm honestly not sure what you are referring to here, but I think you mean when they discovered the aliens were crawling in the ceiling? In that scene also, all the aliens that are directly fired upon are dying instantly. They flank Hudson from below, and force the party to flee due to their sheer numbers. Again, individual aliens are not tougher in this scene at all!
At the end, when Ripley is infiltrating the hive, she is prepared to fight them head on, so there is no ambush situation, and the numbers are manageable. All of the aliens she encounters she has a clear shot on. So obviously they die, as it was shown earlier that they are vulnerable to bullets.
I love aliens but there is no denying the power of the aliens fluctuated, which was movie magic.
first act - a bunch of super space marines got outwitted by super intelligent aliens who ambushed them - fair enough
Second act - again the super space marines got outwitted by super intelligent aliens who overwhelmed them - fair enough
Last act - The super intelligent aliens that could ambush and were great at overwhelming- got there asses handed to them and pretty much went one on one with a single woman who wasn't a marine and had a machine gun and flamethrower - the aliens turned stupid for the end act.
The only way I can defend the last act is this: the aliens were dwindling in numbers, and Ripley was prepared, witnessing their behavior in the first two acts. So she knew the ins and outs of their tactics. These two factors enabled her to get to the hive, where the Queen clearly ordered her workers to stand down.
Understood your points however, as we don't really see ceiling crawl or any kind of ambush attempt from the aliens at the end, I give you that.
They had infinate ammo guns though :)
actually they didn't that's why they had to keep using a pistol after the machine gun ran out of bullets.
oh yeah thats true , very dramatic, they did that 2 or 3 times
big gun fires abut 5000 rounds ... then just for a bit of variety / drama they do the pistol thjing.
I found that pretty funny as the assualt rifles seem to have no effect on the beasties 90% of the time , i cant see a few shots from a pistol helping.
Also , did you ever see them reload?
Maybe they didnt train them for that , probly just said "when you big guns runs out , just use the pistol... you wont live long enough to bother reloading anything"
But the assault rifiles and shot guns were effective too. Granted he's the main character, but we see Pratt take down a few by himself more than once. He took a males head off with just a couple seconds of sustained fire.
shareDorians the only one who picked up an ammo clip from a dead soldier when they were going to the scientist tower block but he never used an assault rifle but a shotgun.
There definitely was inconsistencies, because in the first tower block they kept firing over and over against the aliens but nothing until Dorian the badass used a shotgun under the neck/belly and he emphasised there only weak points again same as the training lady said.
later in the film under the bridge - this is were i think they did show reloading of some ammo clips by the ones who stayed to keep the aliens at bay ready to be bombed.
After that moment they were killing the aliens from top shots and same when they exited the cave with the queen and the water fortress battle, so no more invincible aliens then.
Except now they would have 30 years head start to prepare, while those 500 000 would also bring the technology with them meaning you would be 30 years even more advanced than the ones fighting the aliens in 2048. On top of that, instead of the usual 2-5% war preparedness population you could have something like 60-70%, which would mean a lot more than 500 000 survived. Not to mention weapon research would get a far greater priority for those 30 years. It wouldnt be 'fun' 30 years, but we would have a far better chance of actually stopping them.
sharesame as my reply to UncleRuckis 2 months ago, who said the same thing:
They weren't using laser or plasma guns in the future but seemed to be similar automatic guns, helicopters and f-22/f-35 in the future, so not really alot of future stuff to help them defend themselves in the present, even with the advantage of knowledge they would have been outnumbered again but maybe take longer than 30 years this time to get defeated, and even if they manage to defeat the white spikes then they still lose a whole lot of the population fighting them.
The alien death toxin was the best way to kill the aliens before they started to increase in numbers - destroying the ship was even better.
Why prepare for a fight with massive losses, when you can do it without a war?
The reason they were using current guns is because the guns were supplied by the current year army to equip the soldiers going into the future. If they had future weapons they would have expended all of them by now anyway. All the hardware was "imported from the past". That does not mean they dont have the knowledge, technology to build it. They clearly have far more advanced computers but does really have the facilities to use them anymore. Furthermore just on the theoretical physics level they managed to open a wormhole. That alone could lead to huge amount of breakthroughs if they were given 30 years and government backed funding.
They had no idea where the alien ship is when they opened the wormhole to the past. Nor they had come anywhere close to developing the toxin back then. But instead of using past earth resources for that, they used past earth to protect the single surviving lab in middle of whitespikes city.
You would still have a fight with massive losses because they had no idea where the creatures came from, so the initial attack would still wipe out a lot of people even if they managed to get toxin in time.
So if you had your to make a movie your way the future people coming to the present and arming to have a fight and then have heavy losses. Right?
Instead the current movie only a few people died in the present when they poisoned the aliens with the toxin and the future is without any aliens or any losses.
So which is better?
Millions of present people died being sent to the future to fight the aliens that have already overran the planet. The war was going on for over a year by the time the protagonist got called. Not to mention that the alien fighting would be hardly the only advancement gained from the future technilogy transitioning to the present.
There was no way to poison the aliens in the present because they had no idea where the aliens landed until the protagonist figured it out AFTER the wormhole bridge has already collapsed.
So millions dying in a year is less better the billions dying from a war with an alien foe that could still win?
With no war after the toxin kills the aliens the future development of technology will happen faster would it not? as they have more resources and same people will be born without the fear of a war with aliens?
Millions of dying in a year compared to millions of advanced train units ready to meet an alien foe you mean? Because billions aint dying in the second war now that the world knows whats coming.
You mean all those resources they could have used from the past instead of trying to do everything in a single over-run lab?
Again why fight an unnecessary alien war, when they get killed easily with a toxin?
without wiping the alien before it came out, you would still have a war and you would still have losses, even with the very limited extra advanced technology - because you can't just create an industrial revolution no matter what know how you have - as you have to have ways to get raw material, the advanced people and factories ready to output, the testing aswell.
The future people didn't have advanced weaponry - so there know how would have been very limited in that field, they only had limited scientists and mainly grunt soldiers who seemed to have worser tactics then current soldiers and needed alot of cannon fodder to complete little missions, not the range of scientists and super soldiers in the future to help the current troops and scientists develop alot.
USA develop a single type of stealth plane with scientists/engineers and loads of resources at its disposal, it wasn't new technology but reusing and adapting existing technology and it took them 30 years to setup that with other limited technology improvements.
Because
a) its not an avoidable war as far as they know
b) thy have no idea if the toxin can even be produced until after over a year from contact
c) the toxin would be just as effective if it was made in the past world lab
I agree the war in the future is entirely unnecessary waste of manpower and resources.
It was impossible to wipe out the alien before it came out because noone knew where it came out of. They thought it landed with ships in 2048. It was only at the third act that the main character even figured out it may have been here all along and even then noone believed him.
You can get an industrial revolution off with technology. Raw material production chains are already well established in 2020. It does not take 30 years to build a factory.
We dont know if they had advanced weaponry because we never see their weaponry. The only weaponry we see are imported from the past because the future people's weaponry is already destroyed.
That computer they used to identify whether someone died in the future or not? that alone would likely push robotics decades in a year.
USA developed many other things in that time, with limited budget and no actual future threat. Not to mention the utterly abysmal public support for military spending.
a) it was an unavoidable war until they had the toxin - The future people just needed time & that's why they needed the cannon fodder.
b) the toxin was the main reason and they did it.
c) we don't even know "if" the engineers/scientist who created the lab are still alive in the future?
the future war got exactly what it wanted and it fulfilled the aim to get a toxin back & saved humanity war & saved the planet.
Glad you agree the movie got the toxin and killed the aliens, so it all ended well.
Think how many scientist and engineers it took to make the stealth fighter, it wasn't just one guy with his lab blueprints but many thousands doing individual things.
Look at the Indian military they have blueprints to Russian planes and they can hardly make a component, they have raw materials, they have scientists, they have factories but its not just that easy - whereas the Chinese can reverse engineer a full fighter jet from looking at the parts - just because you can make one thing doesn't mean you can make something else.
we saw there weaponry in the air with the f22/f35 and the drones that are used currently and the future weapons in the lab fight which were no more futuristic that probably a few years from what we have now, no laser cannon or even hypersonic weapons there.
USA pretty much has a military budget equivalent to the next biggest 10 spenders, without a threat to its homeland and even in the peacetime it took them 30 years.
Think about if 500,000 people landed, first thing would be who would wanted the refugees, then which scientist would end up in which country like the nazi's spread over the world to improve the weaponry of the superpowers and probably end up in a world war before the aliens even appeared.
a) The future people had no idea if toxin could even be made when the contact was made.
b) No they did not.
c) irrelevant because the technology does not depend on such things.
It only fulfilled its aim by accident, through a margin of literally less than 10 seconds and had no hopes of preventing a war until the main character figured out where the ship is after the future people were already extinct. If that was their "plan" then it was a terrible one relying on accidents.
And yet if you took the engineering blueprint of the s tealth fighter your team of engineers could recreate it in tenth of the time. This is how industrial espionage works.
India has HAL Tejas which is superior to Russian planes.
No. We saw F22/F35 and the weapons in the lab fight that were sent from the present into the future. We did not see any weapons developed in the future because presumably by killing the entire population the whitespikes also overran all the army supplies.
And where does that military budget goes to? Training and equipping taliban? Thats 3 trillion dollars please.
Except the nazi scientists have created a lot more than weapons and, ironically, thats when large scale wars stopped happening.
in 2015 over 1 500 000 people landed in Europe. Over 60% of whom are still unemployed according to Germany official statistics. Pretty sure the world can take 500 000 people able and willing to bring their knowledge of the future to present.
a) they had already made a toxin to kill the male aliens they only needed to make a version to kill the females
b) the toxin was already being made as per when chris pratt's and his team are dropped at the lab with scientists experiments with the toxin
c) if you don't have the scientists or the engineers available, then you have to start from the scratch.
The main aim was to have the toxin to win the future war but after they got obliterated by an enemy and they choose to send the toxin back to the present.
Just because you have a blueprint doesn't mean you can create all the materials & factories & engineers from scratch - the russian & chinese are sturggling to make 5th generation engines even after pouring money & having already made 4th generation engines - its not easy without having the people showing you everything from the first to last stage.
Hal Teja's are superior to russian planes - this statement is so laughable - One thing most of the tejas vital components are all foreign made apart from the shell of the aircraft and few other non-vital bits - it took the indian 30 years to come up with a kit pack plane that's slightly better then the one its replacing which was 50/60 years old - with help from the french, british, americans expertise plus they are still struggling to mass produce it yet - this example is so ridiculous.
the f22/f35/drone/copters were from the future not the present as they were slightly improved versions otherwise you have ha
doesn't matter the americans have had peace & still struggle because technology is not easy to produce.
the nazi's poured money/manpower into the warmachine & had loads of scientists & engineers & without those from the future you have nothing.
the few scientists that came back would be put into countires warmachine projects not to fight aliens - like the rush for ex-nazi scientests produced warmachines for individual countries military not for world unity against aliens.
a) no, you are confused. They made the toxin to kill the male aliens a year after they made contact with past earth. They skip most of the time gap to move the story along at the beginning so we dont see much of what happens during that first year of war.
b) that was over a year after contact with past earth.
c) and the ones who have scientists and engineers are the past, not the future.
Yeah, its not easy, which is why you bring those 500 000 people who can tell you how its done instead of having them killed in pointless war thats already lost.
There was nothing in the show that would show them as any different than current versions. They were imported from the past.
You do realize nazis had the most advanced weapons, right? They had the best tank designs (but lacked metal after they lost eastern russia territories), they were the first ones to invent rockets and their V2 would have caused quite a lot of trouble if the war lasted even half a year long. It was their scientists who ended up inventing the atom bomb for americans afterwards. Pouring money into research gives results.
After WW2 the unified enemy was the communists which the first world was rushing to invent weapons against. If there was a certainty of a threat we would certianly build weapons to fight it.
a) we don't know when the male toxin was produced but even if it had not have been made when they made contact with present earth - that was the main aim of the time travel.
b) we don't know exactly when it was as they already had the male toxin had been tried and tested by the time they try for the female toxin.
c) we don't know that they could been young scientists & engineers who were born around the time of the present or later - but in the future there were very little scientists - even the chris pratt rescue mission all the scientists were dead - there was a few i think in the ocean lab.
but out of those 500,000 most were probably military grunt soldiers protecting the labs, not likely scientists or engineers who could help with technology, especially military technology.
if present machine were sent to the future then in that was the case they could easily imported nukes and other weapons and parts to the future? which could have wiped out majority of the aliens -we don't see anything bigger then guns being transported into the future.
Exactly my point - the Nazi's had advanced weapons because they had scientists and engineers, without those they would probably been as fierce as the paper north korean force is now - so very few scientists from the future would been useless and the aliens would have destroyed any little technology they would had to time to create.
think chris pratt went to the future and came back and told the world they could destroy the enemy and he wasn't even believed, but then why would the world believe in a threat they had never seen if the future people came back and no-one went to future to see for themselves?
a) The toxin was produced over a year after contact with earth unless you want to claim they sat on it for over a year before testing it on the aliens. We see the effects in the cave of the first test of the toxin.
b) we know exactly when the toxin was tested because we see a scene where they show how it kills the males and not females. These 3 caves was the first testing site. The test was so fresh other males hadnt come yet (which they did during their attempt to capture the female).
c) There were enough engineers and scientists to run the ocean lab and the time portal. Military grunts would be the first to fall in such an invasion, they were most likely all civvies who ended up good enough to not be eaten.
Yes, they could have imported nukes and other weapons to the future. We see the hardware they take during the jump work just fine after the jump. Thing is, Nukes aint very effective at destroying a decentralized enemy that live underground and does not require infrastructure like cities.
The scientists from the future would have been invaluable because they would bring their own concepts with them. It was einsteins arguments with Borh that lead to quantum mechanics and that lead to computers we are typing these replies on. Without the ideas raised noone would have thought to go outside the spacetime constraints. If we could get ideas of future scientists the developement would have been far faster than normal. Even a single scientist bringing the information from future to dig through for the current year scientists would have been revolutionary. Instead they seem to use it only to check jump compatibility.
Im not saying noone should go to the future to see for themselves, but does not mean you stay there for a year. Not to mention their shitty explanation why they didnt film anything.
By the way north korea has enough scientists to get a nuclear program going, and we know they got the bomb working because we can measure the radiation changes.
a) nothing in the movie stated when the toxin is produced - it was used in the caves to capture a female - the case could have been they may not been able to produce enough to kill all males & only used at a necessary time to capture a female?
a) again not stated in the movie - they needed a female to produce a toxin to kill them, which there was less off & easier to kill the population
C) again total opposite shown in the movie - there are hundred of ships, helicopters, drones - all manned/flown/captained by soldiers/sailors,pilots - and only 1 running lab - so probably very few engineers/scientists
exactly the thing needed wasn't nukes/army or military but a toxin as an overall solution
They needed loads of scientists & engineers in all fields, which there wasn't, as they had to rely on a field general as there main scientist.
The scientists could have helped with building a time machine, but that very limited help to improve the military for a battle -there different areas.
look at the Afghanistan withdrawal - do you reckon when the future people start to come back & they start to reduce people the aliens would have just stayed put & let them all come back?
You know politicians & the different country militaries would have used any future visits to there advantage - if they didn't have to fight a future war.
directors choice not to have alien video footage for the present in movie.
Even so the north koreans nuclear force is still the most primitive of the nuke club (they've had russian/chinese & other help) & there's doubt they have miniaturised a nuke capable of fitting into a warhead, they just exploded a weapon / still not sure if it was proper nuclear bomb or just a whole load of tnt mixed with nuke material - aka dirty bomb.
a) It does, because if it was produced earlier it would have been used earlier. If it was a matter of production then once again exporting that to the past would have been faster.
b) Its not easier to kill the population, its that population cannot be killed as long as females existed.
c) Once again, all those helicopters and drones (no ships by the way, all ships were just makeshift housing in the last holdout) were imported from the past.
The thing needed was early warning and technology delivered to the past to prevent the future.
Their field general was an actual scientists who turned into field general because they ran out of real generals.
Notice that in the afghanistan withdrawal the people suffering are the afghanis. The military people were actually unharmed in their withdrawal.
Of course they would have used it for their advantage. Thats the whole fucking point.
Its not thought. They have a warhead capable weapon and we know this because of specific radiation signatures our sattelites detected. Their main problem was the missles to deliver the warhead, but they have, at least based on our intelligence, figured it out now.
I know I'm gonna regret this, but:
"From what we saw in this movie, nothing done in the past had any effect on the future, which means they were dealing with an alternate timeline situation."
No. No no no No. The idea that it's an "alternate timeline" makes NO sense. . .for one thing, there were people who went back and forth multiple times. For another, if the idea was to save the "future," then going back in time to recruit people wouldn't do the job. . .think about it.
Time travel creating "alternate timelines" is a fairly stupid, comic-book concept in any case. Even when used as an attempt to deal w/causality issues, it's just silly.
for one thing, there were people who went back and forth multiple times.going back and forth is evidence that it's an alternate timeline. If it were just one singular timeline, the future would have been altered as soon as they appeared in the world cup and told them about the aliens. share
You're describing one of the ways it doesn't make sense. . .you're Not giving evidence that there are multiple timelines.
Trust me: the time-travel aspects of this movie are a Mess. They simply don't make sense, no matter how you slice it.
The movie very clearly shows at bare minimum two timelines. It opens with one crazy reality where Americans actually give a shit about soccer and then future people show up with a warning/plea for assistance. Then when Pratt goes to the future, he's in an alternate timeline where those people never received any advanced warning that aliens were coming and were blindsided in 2048.
LOL . .it's bending my brain trying to explain how You just explained why that doesn't make sense. I'll give it a shot:
If Pratt goes to the future and his daughter creates a serum that kills the monsters and then he goes back to the present (to prevent it from ever happening???) and then goes BACK to the future, how does that make sense? He's jumping from one timeline's future to the other's past, back to the other timeline's future? How? Why? Logic fail.
If the monsters attack, kill most of the planet in three years, then people come to the past to recruit soldiers, then those soldiers go to the future (and mostly die), the implication is that the monsters (in our present) are going to show up no matter what. Except this time there will be less people around to deal w/them (the ones who died in the Tomorrow War). Then what? Another timeline, then another, then another, ad infinitum? Ridiculous.
I could keep going, but causality aside, the idea that going to the past "creates a new timeline" is ridiculous in any case. And even as a plot device in bad sci-fi, it requires a LOT of logical contortions to create a working narrative. This movie Ain't It.
If Pratt goes to the future and his daughter creates a serum that kills the monsters and then he goes back to the present (to prevent it from ever happening???) and then goes BACK to the future, how does that make sense? He's jumping from one timeline's future to the other's past, back to the other timeline's future? How? Why? Logic fail.
But that's what I'm trying to explain: to say "How? They definitely are. . ." is exactly why this story doesn't work. There IS no explanation. . .it's just that simple. And this is just *one* of the logic bombs.
Entertaining flick, but definitely mindless.
you know i once read in a book a great way to visualize future chances and timelines. Its like a river backwards. If you go from the delta and go upsctream with all the smaller brances going off, those are different choices being made.
shareWell even more stupid was sending people from the past that had died before they arrived in the future still had a huge problem with it when the people from the past often ended up dead so that anything they would have done in the unaltered past was now altered. Suppose Bill goes forward and dies, they think it doesn't matter because Bill would have died in another 5 years time, but Bill might have done any number of things that could still impact the future... they completely ignore the butterfly effect.
shareBecause they were working to save the other past from the same fate, and until they finished working on the toxin they couldn't go back. Presumably, once they had the toxin they could all jump back with it and finish their lives out in the new timeline.
shareHow are they able to figure out time travel in the future but not also super future guns or alien pesticides.
Seems time travel would be the most impossible thing to come up with in an emergency.
You would think right. Or at least better body armor that can stop those spike projectiles. It would have made those ground troops much more effective.
shareThat’s true, plus the drone technology used by the us army now can probably flatten whole areas of these aliens so rather improve stuff like that. Instead of just equipping drones with more machine guns.
shareThe attack at the end showed there were probably more aliens than the bullets in US army arsenal...
That being said, i got no idea how they managed to take down things like ships. You cant really swarm these.
well they did figure out an alien pesticide in less than 24 hours so kinda? Also probably already been researching time travel before the aliens attacked.
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