MovieChat Forums > Da 5 Bloods (2020) Discussion > OK, being deliberately a little provocat...

OK, being deliberately a little provocative ... easy does it ...

posted 4 years ago by brux (14666)
20 replies | jump to latest

I watched this movie, and by the end really both enjoyed it and got a lot out of it and thought it was very good.

When I watch a movie I've always had this problem remembering the character's names ... same as I do with people I have just met. I can meet someone, shake hands with them and turn around and forget their name until I've said it a number of times and talked to them.

So towards the end I started thinking about the "bloods" names. Paul, Otis, Eddie, Melvin ... and Storming' Norman.

OK, first, the movie was amazing and the first movie that I can think of that really got inside PTSD in a visceral way that for me at least really got under my skin. For that alone I'd rate it 10/10, and so my bit of comedy now, mostly in jest at that time in America, and even a lot today, a group of 5 African American men would be so unlikely to all have standard American names. Remember Mohammed Ali's birth name was Cassius Clay. Some black people I have know take it as a badge of honor not to pull their children's names from the list of white names, i.e. their historic oppressors. It was not until relatively recently that studies showed that when people submit their resumes for jobs, the names that sound African American were usually not considered. I had a friend and coworker at one job that when his wife gave birth just made up their new son's name, which sounded strange to me.

I have to wonder if Spike Lee gave any thought to the names of the men here, or stayed away from any "ethnic" African American names deliberately?

[–] NorrinRad (5019) 4 years ago

Well you said easy does it so I will go easy.

By now you should know that the names of the surviving Bloods plus Paul's son come from the Temptations. David Ruffin, Otis Williams, Paul Williams (Paul and Otis of the Temptations were NOT related while David is the Godson of Otis in the film), Melvin Franklin and Eddie Kendricks.

I have to wonder if Spike Lee gave any thought to the names of the men here, or stayed away from any "ethnic" African American names deliberately?

The whole rejection of slave-master names wasn't that popular among mainstream African-Americans in the 50's and 60's when these Bloods were born. Cassius Clay became Ali around 1961 and it was NOT a move that was celebrated by the majority of Blacks/African Americans as Muslims and Islam were not that widely accepted and or practiced. The Black Panther Party wasn't formed until 1966 and that was well past the birth of the Bloods.

I have no clue why Spike used Stormin' Norman because it only reminds me of Gen Norman Schwarzkopf. 🤔

[–] brux (14666) 4 years ago

I had no idea, nor if I was more familiar with the Temptations would I ever have thought of that. Thanks for mentioning it. Why would that get interjected into the movie ... what connections did the Temptations have to the Viet Nam war or era? My appreciate of Soul music came much, much later.

I remember when Ali changed his name thinking it was kind of weird, but over this span of time and this era is when I became a teen ager and sort of woke up, and I always admired Ali for both that and for being a conscientious objector. That was the kind of courage that I never really saw in the news and it impressed the hell out of me. I lived in Texas at the time and saw lots of anti-African American Southern mentality, which caused me to question everything since.

Most African Americans seemed to be very devoutly Christian, so it was strange to me that Ali became a Muslim, albeit a Black Muslim. I was not a fan of Farrakhan in the least. Also the killing of Fred Hampton in December of 1969 outraged me as well.

Yeah, the Storming' Norman reference was weird, and also the almost religious attachment they had to him. I just watched this again today and I get something more from it every time I do.

Around 1973 is when I started to understand the whole Imperialism and Viet Nam war thing.

[–] NorrinRad (5019) 4 years ago

[–] brux (5666) 9 hours ago
I had no idea, nor if I was more familiar with the Temptations would I ever have thought of that. Thanks for mentioning it. Why would that get interjected into the movie ... what connections did the Temptations have to the Viet Nam war or era? My appreciate of Soul music came much, much later.

I do not know this to be true or intentional by Spike Lee but released in 1970:

Ball of Confusion (That's What the World Is Today)
The Temptations
1, 2 1, 2, 3, 4, Ow!

People moving out, people moving in
Why, because of the color of their skin
Run, run, run but you sure can't hide

An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth
Vote for me and I'll set you free
Rap on, brother, rap on

Well, the only person talking about love thy brother is the(preacher)
And it seems nobody's interested in learning but the(teacher)
Segregation, determination, demonstration, integration,
Aggravation, humiliation, obligation to our nation

Ball of confusion
Oh yeah, that's what the world is today
Woo, hey, hey

The sale of pills are at an all time high
Young folks walking round with their heads in the sky
The cities ablaze in the summer time

And oh, the beat goes on

Evolution, revolution, gun control, sound of soul
Shooting rockets to the moon, kids growing up too soon
Politicians say more taxes will solve everything

And the band played on

So, round and around and around we go
Where the world's headed, nobody knows

Oh, great googalooga, can't you hear me talking to you
Just a ball of confusion
Oh yeah, that's what the world is today
Woo, hey, hey

Fear in the air, tension everywhere
Unemployment rising fast, the Beatles new record's a gas

And the only safe place to live is on an Indian reservation

And the band played on

Eve of destruction, tax deduction, city inspectors, bill collectors,
Mod clothes in demand, population out of hand, suicide, too many bills,
Hippies moving to the hills People all over the world are shouting, 'End the war'

And the band played on

Great googalooga, can't you hear me talking to you
Sayin' ball of confusion
That's what the world is today, hey, hey

Let me hear ya, let me hear ya, let me hear ya
Sayin' ball of confusion
That's what the world is today, hey, hey
Let me hear ya, let me hear ya, let me hear ya, let me hear ya, let me hear ya
Sayin' ball of confusion

The Temptations and many groups of that era had protest music that reflected, shaped and defined the positions of Americans.

[–] brux (14666) 4 years ago

That's weird. I have heard of the Temptations and a lot of their hits, often done by others. I just looked it up and have actually never heard that song before. So I guess I am out of it as far as understanding that connection or why.

[–] NorrinRad (5019) 4 years ago

[–] brux (5668) 3 hours ago
That's weird. I have heard of the Temptations and a lot of their hits, often done by others. I just looked it up and have actually never heard that song before.

Well you're not going to be a Happy Camper with where this is going.

Spike may have decided NOT to use the perfect protest song in Da 5 Bloods because he had already gone to that well for another film that takes place in and around the same time. Just an obscure Oscar winner for the very talented but maligned Spike Lee called: BlackKklansman:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=soiNXta5zOM

So I guess I am out of it as far as understanding that connection or why.

Ball of Confusion is also on the soundtrack for the film. You should check out the movie. I hear the trailer, the film and the soundtrack are all quite good. 😎

[–] brux (14666) 4 years ago

> You should check out the movie.

Do you mean "Black Klansman"? If so, already saw it, and thought it was excellent. A very clever combination of serious and comedy ... brilliant.

[–] NorrinRad (5019) 4 years ago

[–] brux (5669) 41 minutes ago
> You should check out the movie.

Do you mean "Black Klansman"? If so, already saw it, and thought it was excellent. A very clever combination of serious and comedy ... brilliant.

Sigh...Sarcasm should be done subtly and gently. I tried being subtle.

You saw BlackKklansman yet you never saw a trailer or remember Ball of Confusion by the Temptations being in the film?!! I even provided you a link to the trailer for you to say, "Wow"!! "How did I miss that"?!

You sure you're doing okay?

[–] brux (14666) 4 years ago

Are you trying to be rude or does it just come effortlessly? What, do you think I am lying? Maybe what I remember or my priorities are different from you.

[–] NorrinRad (5019) 4 years ago

[–] brux (5676) 28 minutes ago
Are you trying to be rude or does it just come effortlessly? What, do you think I am lying? Maybe what I remember or my priorities are different from you.

How is it I am being rude and point to me where I am accusing you of lying?

You're awfully touchy and for no reason that I can clearly discern. 😕

[–] brux (14666) 4 years ago

> You saw BlackKklansman yet you never saw a trailer or remember Ball of Confusion by the Temptations being in the film?!!

Yeah, I said it, not trying to be dishonest or confusing, I did not pay much attention to music in movies. They seem to only do this so they can make money on the soundtracks. Now in movies there is music all the time, like there is in public.

Why would I lie about that or be unclear?

[–] NorrinRad (5019) 4 years ago

Yeah, the Storming' Norman reference was weird, and also the almost religious attachment they had to him. I just watched this again today and I get something more from it every time I do.

Stormin Norman in this film was charismatic, thoughtful, skilled, determined and fiercely driven by a cause. Boseman does yeoman work in his role of portraying a mythic character to his squad. He truly was Malcolm X, MLK and T'Challa or maybe Thurgood Marshall, Jackie Robinson and T'Challa. 👨🏿 !!

[–] brux (14666) 4 years ago

I didn't see enough of the Storming' Norman character feel that strongly - I had to take it as given from what the other characters said, which I think was a drawback, but then at the end, in that climatic scene maybe that was for the best and would have lessened its impact.

[–] NorrinRad (5019) 4 years ago

OK, being deliberately a little provocative ... easy does it ...
posted 16 days ago by brux (5755)
12 replies | jump to latest
I watched this movie, and by the end really both enjoyed it and got a lot out of it and thought it was very good.

When I watch a movie I've always had this problem remembering the character's names ... same as I do with people I have just met. I can meet someone, shake hands with them and turn around and forget their name until I've said it a number of times and talked to them.

So towards the end I started thinking about the "bloods" names. Paul, Otis, Eddie, Melvin ... and Storming' Norman.

I have to confess that I found this out from a youtubber and I am absolutely astonished that I didn't make the connection myself. Chadwick Boseman's character is named Norman for the most obvious of reasons and it has to do not only with the Temptations but the Motown Sound of that era, Norman Whitfield.

Whitfield worked "exclusively" with the Temptations for Motown. DUH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Whitfield was a true powerhouse of a song writer and producer. I will create a thread of his own to give you an idea of just how prolific and creative he was.

Unless you are of a certain age I wouldn't expect most to be familiar with his catalog of hits and songs. Old heads will instantly know who Norman Whitfield was. 😎

[–] brux (14666) 4 years ago

I was trying to poke a little fun at the names a lot of African Americans come up with for their kids. On the one hand it is kind of cool to have a unique name, but on the other hand they can be a negative. Studies have shown that African American names on resumes are treated with prejudice. Also I once to had some business to transact with the DMV and the lady's name was Latrina. I thought how sad it was that this nice lady who helped me out so competently had parents that would give her a name like that.

[–] NorrinRad (5019) 4 years ago

[–] brux (5757) 19 minutes ago
I was trying to poke a little fun at the names a lot of African Americans come up with for their kids. On the one hand it is kind of cool to have a unique name, but on the other hand they can be a negative. Studies have shown that African American names on resumes are treated with prejudice.

Brux..... I'm pretty sure everyone GOT where you were going. The new-age non-trendy names of African-Americans is pretty stale and dated comic material. The state of Wisconsin is quite famous for having cities named after African-Americans: Kenosha, Racine, Waukesha, Mequon, etc. 🤦‍♀️

But then Wisconsin does have the quite powerful "White" names like: Hayward, Madison, Barron, Marshfield.... 🤦‍♂️

I decided to go for the Homerun when you attempted to bunt and struck out. No offense intended.

As far as the names on resumes? Having worked in hiring and HR there was indeed a bias but that extended well beyond just so-called nonsensical names and African-Americans. Saoirse Ronan? Engelbert Humperdinck? Marion Morrison (Is that a male or female?), anything that sounded exotic, foreign or having too many consonants raised an eye-brow or elicited a snicker and maybe put into the "circular" file. Names such as Tyrone, LeRoy, DeShawn, as well as Lakisha and Jamal experienced that type of handicap. Moon Unit Zappa, X æ a 12, Blanket Jackson or Apple Martin is going to get your foot in the door ???

Most interviewers and hiring managers are well past that type of 90's schism.

[–] brux (14666) 4 years ago

> I decided to go for the Homerun when you attempted to bunt and struck out. No offense intended.

OK, I don't even understand what that is supposed to mean.

> The state of Wisconsin is quite famous for having cities named after African-Americans: Kenosha, Racine, Waukesha, Mequon, etc.

Kenosha - The Indian word Kee-neau-sha-Kau-ning means “place of the pike.”

Racine - The city was originally called Chippecotton or Kipikawi, which means root. Indians named it that because the area of the river, that emptied into Lake Michigan, was all tangled up with snags and roots. Racine is actually the French word for root.

Waukesha - The Indians first gave it the name Tchee-gas-cou-tak – meaning burnt, fire land. There were many forests and prairies along the Fox River and fires were frequent.
That’s probably why Waukesha was known as Prairieville or Prairie Village in the early days.
When Morris Cutler, the first white settler arrived in Waukesha, he met chief Leatherstrap or Wau-tsha – also spelled – Wauk-tsha. He was a friendly and dignified leader. He was tall, athletic and very proud of his wardrobe. In 1847, Prariville was changed to Waukesha in honor of him.

Mequon - "Mequon" may have come from the Ojibwe word "Emikwaan" or "Miguan", meaning ladle, referring to the shape of the river in the area. Alternatively, the name may come from a Menominee word Mēkon, meaning "feather."

What's up with you NorrinRad? I thought you wanted to have a discussion but you are throwing out a lot of chaff to confuse things ... are you trolling?

The point was, and I don't know, but in Viet Nam did most of the black soldiers who got shipped over there have white normative names or African-American or Black-Muslim influenced names, and what is the likelihood that all these black soldiers in Da 5 Bloods would have such average names?

[–] NorrinRad (5019) 4 years ago

Brux..You're on a board for a movie about Vietnam and you wanted to segue to possibly discuss issues with names for African-Americans. You yourself said

[–] brux (5768) 15 hours ago
I was trying to poke a little fun at the names a lot of African Americans come up with for their kids. On the one hand it is kind of cool to have a unique name, but on the other hand they can be a negative. Studies have shown that African American names on resumes are treated with prejudice. Also I once to had some business to transact with the DMV and the lady's name was Latrina. I thought how sad it was that this nice lady who helped me out so competently had parents that would give her a name like that.

You even shared your own "personal" experience. I recognized the context and provided for you some timeframes and reasons why the names of the Bloods including their squad leader were quite normal given the era. You brought up the following:

I have to wonder if Spike Lee gave any thought to the names of the men here, or stayed away from any "ethnic" African American names deliberately?

To which I replied:

The whole rejection of slave-master names wasn't that popular among mainstream African-Americans in the 50's and 60's when these Bloods were born. Cassius Clay became Ali around 1961 and it was NOT a move that was celebrated by the majority of Blacks/African Americans as Muslims and Islam were not that widely accepted and or practiced. The Black Panther Party wasn't formed until 1966 and that was well past the birth of the Bloods.

I even provided for all the origin of the names of all of the Bloods and how they were quite normal, again given the era/times. If you go one step further the actors playing those roles all have "traditional" sounding Westernized Anglo-Saxon names. 😂 Delroy Lindo is the exception as he was born in London of Jamaican parents.

The only point being their real names (Isiah, Norm, Jonathan, Clarke) pretty much represent the times they were born in also. So no, Spike didn't make a decision to eschew "ethnic" names because it pretty much would have been way out of the norm for that character. (Norm? Get it? Another play on words.) The actual honored Vietnam soldier who was mentioned? His name was Milton, Milton Olive.

I considered your bringing up the topic as akin to attempting to bunt, as in baseball. (You know that most American of games?) By attempting a bunt on two strikes and fouling it off it becomes a "Strike-out". 👍 Being that this is a public and not private forum, which can be read by all, the naming of the Bloods felt very much like an Easter Egg. I think everyone might found that useful and are free to join in and provide their own inputs, and or opinions, as to your Bunt attempt and to my own Walk-Off Grand-Slam. ✨🎈🎶⚾🏆

I awarded myself a Home run for providing the information regarding the background of the names of the Bloods. Because it was still on topic and very much about the era and the film. The bases being loaded I think it was a Grand Slam. 😎 Don't you think?

[–] brux (14666) 4 years ago

I am looking to understand your point of view but it seems like what you want to do is type a lot and run in circles and be semi-insulting - top which why would I get insulted by some internet nonsense? And is, I wouldn't. Also ... what about your 100% wrong claim about Wisconsin city names?

You still have not said in a short compact digestible form why the Bloods were named after a musical group or what difference it makes other than being a coincidental or random point.

I pursue a discussion in good faith ... what is it you are doing exactly?

[–] NorrinRad (5019) 4 years ago

[–] brux (5768) 33 minutes ago
> I decided to go for the Homerun when you attempted to bunt and struck out. No offense intended.

OK, I don't even understand what that is supposed to mean.

> The state of Wisconsin is quite famous for having cities named after African-Americans: Kenosha, Racine, Waukesha, Mequon, etc.

Brux, Brux, Brux that is a stale joke, a gag, a wisecrack that has been used by many dated comedians. 🤦‍♂️ Racine is NOT named after any African-Americans. Those city names just happen to SOUND like they would be the names of children that some black mother would use for her offspring. Thus the basis of a JOKE. 😂

What's up with you NorrinRad? I thought you wanted to have a discussion but you are throwing out a lot of chaff to confuse things ... are you trolling?

You MUST be kidding??!!!I provide for you some solid information to the why and the when for names of the Bloods. I provide for you some additional insights into common names used during that era along with some background as to why Cassisus Clay, Malcom X, the Black Panther Party would not have been an impetus for then current era Blacks in naming their children and you question if I am trolling you?

Sigh....😎

The point was, and I don't know, but in Viet Nam did most of the black soldiers who got shipped over there have white normative names or African-American or Black-Muslim influenced names, and what is the likelihood that all these black soldiers in Da 5 Bloods would have such average names?

Let's take a cursory sample of the names of the prominent Black actors that you may have (or may have not heard of) that are in the age range who could have served in the Vietnam War:

James Earl Jones
Samuel L. Jackson
Morgan Freeman
Bill Cosby
Sidney Poitier
Jim Brown
James Brown
Ben Vereen
Fred (The Hammer) Williamson
Richard Roundtree
Billy Dee Williams
Danny Glover
Louis Gossett
Charles Dutton

Muslim or Arabic sounding names of African Americans for that era wasn't a "Thing" yet. The Civil Rights Movement and the Black Power movement of the late 60's and early seventies sparked a moved from "Conformity" towards "Individuality" as the identity of Blacks/Negroes/African-American became transformative for ADOS. That trend didn't really pick up until well after the Vietnam War. There are plenty of sites that provide stats on name usage for people through the years.

The likelihood of all of the Bloods having "Normal" names? Maybe 99.9999%?

[–] brux (14666) 4 years ago

I guess I see one way of trolling is to pretend to be deliberately dense. You know most black actors are going be from a pool of American culture normative names, or they will change their names. That is no random sample, so your choice to use those celebrity names is either mathematically challenged or deliberately dishonest.

I'm gonna have to call this and award you big troll points for wasting my time. Thanks for nothing.