MovieChat Forums > Leaving NeverlandĀ (2019) Discussion > Maybe this is what was wrong with Michae...

Maybe this is what was wrong with Michael Jackson


First off, my personal opinion is that Michael Jackson was a product of an extremely dysfunctional family. He was beat by his dad and picked on by his brothers. Yes, a lot of times when this happens a person can become somewhat normal as an adult..however, Michael was one of those "sensitive" kids. We've all met them, they're just sensitive and they may be soft spoken and cry easily. Michael's brothers made fun of his big nose and years later it's radically altered via plastic surgery. Between dad's beatings and his brother's teasings Michael didn't have much of a childhood, later in life he's CONSUMED with children to a point of self destruction.
Now, was Michael a pedophile? I'm not so sure. His porn collection was all legal and 99% hetero porn and all of it was familiar like Hustler, Penthouse, big women, etc and yes there was "Barely Legal" which is produced by Hustler and all girls are 18 and over. A true pedophile would at least try to get a bunch of illegal porn. Could I be wrong, yes but the porn he had was all pretty normal.
One thing that kind of describes a more likely scenario is that his longtime nanny or chef defended him, she knew him more than most. She never saw or knew of any sexual stuff but she did say he'd be off having "water balloon fights" with the other kids. I'm thinking, this is in his 40's so he's certainly very immature and yes, all the lost childhood stuff has resulted in a Peter Pan man-child.
Michael didn't like his brothers, father, sisters very much. He lived in his own Neverland universe. He doesn't seem like a pedophile but just a very sensitive, immature boy who never really could grow up.

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I agree with your first paragraph. The family was, and still is, dysfunctional in the extreme. Joe Jackson also sexually abused at least two of his daughters. At this point I wouldn't be surprised if he also sexually abused MJ.

Yes, his porn collection was legal -- at least that which was found and confiscated by the sheriff's department. It's also true that heterosexual porn is used by pedophile's to groom their victims, although obviously his having an extensive porn collection (and it was extensive) does not, in itself, prove he did use it to groom little boys.

But ask yourself why someone who went to great lengths to say over and over again that he was really just a child in man's body, how innocent children are, and how he emulated children's innocence himself, and someone who was quite religious, would have an extensive porn collection?

Also ask yourself why someone who claimed to just love children, all children, only focussed his attention on little boys? Why, other than occasionally the sisters of two of his "special friends," did he not have little girls stay with him in his bed?

I don't know about a nanny or chef testifying that, but I do know two of his maids and a male employee (a guard, I think) testified against him at the second trial, with some pretty damning stuff. Like finding a pair of MJ's and a little boy's underwear floating in his jacuzzi bathtub in his bedroom suite.

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I've wondered that myself (why a 'child in an adults body' would have a big pr0n collection), but maybe by 'child' he's more like an early teen (13-14). Most of us would've been well into looking at porn by that age. The way he communicated with the victims in this docu seemed like early teens to me.

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Yes, Michael was definitely acting like a young teen. His fascination with children manifested itself from his tragic upbringing and ultimately resulted in his demise.

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But he wasn't fascinated with children, he was fascinated with little boys. Why only little boys?

Can you think of anyone, anyone at all, who's an adult heterosexual man who's obsessed with little boys? To the point of sleeping with one of them for 30 nights straight (not in dispute -- proven), and sharing a bed with many, many others?

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He was like a little boy who are usually going to hang out with other little boys. It was interesting when MJ's longtime nanny defended him, saying she never saw a hint of anything sexual towards the little boys she did mention "oh, he might be outside in a water balloon fight"..I'm thinking "lady, how can you not see he's impossibly immature?"

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That's certainly what he, and now his estate and family, want everyone to believe.

I believed it myself, up until watching the documentary. BTW, have you seen it? My guess is you haven't. If he was so much like a little boy, why did he have an extensive porn collection? No little boy (who hasn't been or isn't being molested) would have that.

Then there are a number of other former employees of Neverland who testified that they witnessed either outright molestation, or things that strongly point to it.

This is one of the maids being interviewed on 60 Minutes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Yp91zKBGgY&t=391s

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But why go on and ON about how he was like an innocent child himself? Obviously he wasn't. We now know that.

A child, even an early teen, isn't at the same time as business savvy and ruthless as to bid against your friend (Paul McCartney) to win the rights to their catalog. That caused a rift in their friendship on McCartney's end, and rightly so.

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He did seem like a truly confused, immature, impulsive, and directionless teenager.

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A confused, impulsive and directionless teen wouldn't have been able to amass the vast fortune he did.

I understand your reluctance to believe this of him, and prior to seeing Leaving Neverland, then doing a lot of research afterwards, I shared it. I can't do that anymore.

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Yeah, you're right. I do think he probably legitimately had *some* childlike qualities but agree with what you're suggesting as well. It can be both.

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This is what I think. He was sexually abused himself when he was a boy. Maybe by his own father, who we already know abused two of his daughters.

So he learned to distrust adults, and you can't blame him for that. His own father was, at a minimum, extremely emotionally, mentally, and physically abusive to him. His mother didn't protect him either.

Who would not harm him, who would be trustworthy then? What group? Children and animals. Sure enough, both are who he surrounded himself with, and claimed to be happiest when he was around them.

I think he believed it when he said he'd rather slash his wrists than hurt a child. He couched all of this in terms of them being acts of love, which "ignorant people" wouldn't understand. I think he convinced himself that he didn't hurt a child, that this didn't hurt them; it was sharing love. And people who thought otherwise really were ignorant, so he had to keep it secret. But ultimately he couldn't hide it from himself, hence becoming a shopaholic, chronic insomniac, and severely addicted to drugs. He was trying to self-medicate.

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I don't think it was Joe. I think it was someone in the music industry. I do think he was sexually abused as a boy, I have that feeling too.

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Could have been. Whomever did it, I doubt it only happened to him once.

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I don't think he's a pedo but very childish. If you look at a lot of his interviews, he acts very immature even to the point of the way he giggles. I am sort of like him where I have a kid like mindset in an adult body. I like watching movies, anime, playing games etc. which I think many others do too although some take it further by cosplaying and going to comic-con and stuff.

He does what he needs to do to make money just like his strict parents told him what to do behind the scenes as he grew up but when all that is said is done, he just wants to have fun like how a child would have fun. That and he may be a bit brain damaged in some areas.

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Do you share you bed, night after night, with little boys? My guess is you don't.

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Maybe he likes sleepovers? Lol, I would say that's on the parents. Why would the parents allow him to have their children for sleepover with an adult? Even Macaulay Culkin defends him and he was there as well.

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Oh come on. Have you ever heard of anyone, anyone who *isn't* a pedophile to do anything like this? And why only little boys? No one who'd defending him wants to address that.

It's not like anyone could say, "Well, he might have thought that was inappropriate!" The guy who couldn't stop his obsession with little boys sharing his bed, even after he'd been charged with child molestation.

The parents are a separate issue.

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Well, I can't answer for him since I am not him but my thinking is that since he's childish in mindset, he does what most little boys do, hanging out with other boys (girls? eww gross) and doing sleepovers in a adult world. He just happens to have the money to turn a mansion into a huge castle fort sort of speak. That's my take on it anyway. If you think he's a pedo, then that's fine, your opinion.

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Uh, except he married two eww gross girls. Sorry, that doesn't make any logical sense.

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He also had an extensive porn collection with men having sex with eww gross girls. Nope, doesn't wash.

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If you, me or anyone else had sleepovers with 12 year old boys we would probably be in prison.

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Sort of depends on the situation and how it's played out. I think if you, me, or anyone else were doing it, it wouldn't be public to begin with.

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Probably so. Worse, it started with Wade when he was 7.

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Remember Michael Jackson had a horrific accident happen to him exactly at the height of his fame. That led him down a long, long path medication and self destruction.

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I know that, but that happened back in 1984. It doesn't explain how far down he spiraled so much later in his life, and the extreme bouts of insomnia. But you know what would easily explain that?

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I don't know..getting hooked on drugs is not only crippling you're truly altering your mind..forever. Michael never got clean, he was able to produce a couple more very good albums but other than that it was the drugs, the lawsuits, the shopping sprees, the bizarre behavior and eventually he was completely broke and had become a nomad with 3 children to feed. All this would be enough to make anyone an insomniac, let alone a super sensitive person like MJ.

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He said he got clean after he went into rehab. There are lots of people who do.

His insomnia has been reported about many times, long before he was broke. He would call people at all times of the night -- 3:00, 4:00 a.m. -- because, he constantly complained, he was lonely. Who does that? A very inconsiderate person thinking only about themselves and filling their own needs.

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He was on drugs all the way to his final day, that's what killed him. As far as being inconsiderate I stick to MJ being a confused, immature, impulsive, and directionless teenager-like 50 year old.

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What I'm saying is he had insomnia -- undisputed -- long before all that happened.

Yes, I know he was on drugs right up to the end. Hell, not just drugs, it was anesthesia! That's how bad his insomnia got.

You can believe whatever you like, of course, but your characterisation of him does not logically add up with what we know, for reasons I've already stated.

Even a teen knows better than to be calling people in the middle of the night.

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I have to admit you make some great points.
One thing I have to remind myself is when it comes to celebrities I must remember they don't play by our rules, they make their own rules and many times their "Hollyweird" existence just confuses everyone, including doctors, psychologists, historians, etc. MJ is one of these cases, he's almost impossible to characterize and almost any attempt makes sense and at the same time makes no sense. MJ's behavior simply went along with the atypical Hollyweird playbook: "these are our rules, we do what we want, and almost everybody will go along with us".
Have you read the book "83 Minutes: The Doctor, The Damage and the Shocking Death of Michael Jackson"? The two authors did a great job and the book is at the least, very enlightening.

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Thanks.

I've known a number of celebrities over the years, and the vast amount of them are just people like you and me. Celebrities, and I'll include others who are extremely wealthy, playing by their own rules only goes so far.

He didn't make sense to me for a long time, and I accepted the same things most everyone else did: very eccentric, messed up and lost childhood, child in a man's body, etc, etc. UNTIL I saw Leaving Neverland, and started looking closely at him.

All of a sudden, the formerly inexplicable puzzle pieces started to fall into place. I don't like the picture that's formed now that they are in place, but I also can't deny it. Finally things make sense, he makes sense.

No, haven't read that book. While I was shocked to hear MJ had died (still remember where I was when I heard the news), and saddened, I wasn't interested in his death.

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IMHO that is what Jackson tried to convince people he was - "just a very sensitive, immature boy who never really could grow up", even when he was over forty and no sane person could call him a "boy". And IMHO like most celebrity images, it was a lie, a crock designed to cover everything about Jackson that the public would not consider acceptable. That's why publicists get the big bucks, they convince the public that ruthless assholes dedicated professionals, that vile old goats who sexually harass every young person near them are harmless party animals, that batshit insanity is just exhaustion from overwork, etc. Celebrities are NEVER the person they try to convince us they are, the best you can say about a celebrity's public persona is that it's based on a real person.

So given that, why would a celebrity set out to convince the public that he's an immature, eccentric man-child who eschewed all things adult even though he wanted adults to buy his music? Well, someone who couldn't pass for mature adult who was sexually interested in other adults, for one, and someone who couldn't hide an unusual interest in children. If you do the math, you come out with a strong suspicion of pedophilia.

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