MovieChat Forums > Black Panther: Wakanda Forever (2022) Discussion > Could a white actor take the lead role, ...

Could a white actor take the lead role, and if not....why?


Would it affect ticket sales?
Could it be the right kind of 'gimmick' needed?
Would audiences stay away from it?

Skin-Colour (obviously) hasn't mattered with several reboots of late......So I'm genuinely interested to see how far 'diversity' goes in Hollywood?


Let's *try* have a sensible conversation about the pro's and cons of recasting Black Panther as a white man......

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Yes, its a great idea

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It would be unlikely for a king of a Central African kingdom to be white.
Of course logic and consistency never stop Movie\TV commissars from "diversifying" stuff but should we not be better than that?

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It would be unlikely for a king of a Central African kingdom to be white.

It is a fictional made up character. Isn't that the excuse used all the time when the race is swapped from white to black.

So whats the difference.

It is highly unlikely you would have had a black viking god but here we are

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So what's the difference?

It is highly unlikely you would have had a black viking god but here we are
Here is the difference:

1. Marvel's Asgardians are NOT Vikings.
2. Marvel's Heimdall is not a Viking.
3. Stan Lee and Jack Kirby created a mythical story loosely based on Norse mythology.
4. Hogun the Grim is also an Asgardian and played by Tadanobu Asano.
5. Asgardians aren't white, nor are they European, nor Scandinavian, nor Human, nor Norwegian...

Bottomline is that Idris Elba was not playing a Black Viking god.

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1. Marvel's Asgardians are NOT Vikings.
2. Marvel's Heimdall is not a Viking.
3. Stan Lee and Jack Kirby created a mythical story loosely based on Norse mythology.
5. Asgardians aren't white, nor are they European, nor Scandinavian, nor Human, nor Norwegian...

And where do you think the inspiration for those Asgard gods comes from. Thats right. Norse mythology. You know Europe. Norway and Denmark. White people. Just because you say somethingn doesn't make it so you know.

Bottomline is that Idris Elba was not playing a Black Viking god.

No you are right. He was playing a white viking god.

4. Hogun the Grim is also an Asgardian and played by Tadanobu Asano.

Hogan is not a God inspired by Norse mythology. He is an original character written for it. Got no issue with that.

based on Norse mythology.

And there it is. You can't say inspired by and then ignore. Heimdall is based on a Norse God. A white Norse God. I liked Idris Elba in the role but if your gonna make arguements that a white person can't play black roles then you are hypocrite if you defend this.

I always find it funny that people will jump through hoops to say that a white person can't play a black role due to there skin colour being important but will immediately say it's ok for black to play white roles as skin colour is not important.

Which is it. Is skin colour important or not. Pick one. Can't have it both ways. Well we can because that is what is happening.

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Because history has never had a white person rule over any portion(s) of Africa before?

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South Africa? The aristocracy of ancient Egypt were also white.

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Mainly South Africa, yes.
"Whitey" has been invading/colonizing and shifting the political spectrum and the "power dynamics" of/in Africa for ever though.
Mainly the Dutch, Portuguese, German, British and French. To a lesser extent; the Italians, Scandinavians, the Spaniards and the Greek.

It's never been proven about the Ancient Egyptians being white or black though.
It's been the subject of debate since the early-mid 1800's.
The general consensus (and middle ground) is that ancient Egypt wouldn't/couldn't entirely be considered "white" or "black".
People born all around Egypt in different locations, combined with variations in ancestry, would cause/create all sorts of skin pigmentation.

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The ancient Egyptians were Mediterranean Caucasoids. Ramses II, the pharaoh who persecuted the children of Israel was probably a red head.

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"It's never been proven about the Ancient Egyptians being white or black though.
It's been the subject of debate since the early-mid 1800's.
The general consensus (and middle ground) is that ancient Egypt wouldn't/couldn't entirely be considered "white" or "black".
People born all around Egypt in different locations, combined with variations in ancestry, would cause/create all sorts of skin pigmentation."

Just ended up copy-pasting my last reply, because instead of reading it, you just doubled down lol
That said:

It's never actually been proven that the Ancient Egyptians were white or black though...and it's been the subject of debate for almost 200 years.
By that, I mean that it's never really been proven, what you keep saying with certainty.

The ancient Egyptians lived in North Africa along the Mediterranean, yes.
As for them being "Mediterranean Caucasoid", since "Caucasoid" was defined by measurements of the cranium, ancient "Caucasoid" populations were not considered exclusively "white", but ranged in complexion from white-skinned to dark brown (which is what my original comment said).

Ramses had red hair, so? He was probably one of the lighter-skinned Egyptians, what does that have to do with anything? I didn't say "light skinned ancient Egyptians didn't exist", I said it's been generally agreed upon that it was probably a range of complexions and not just one or the other like people seem to assume.

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The country is all fiction as is the story. Hence, a white person could rule the country.

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T'Challa is an established character with his cultural background being very relevant to the character but if we're talking about a brand new character in some capacity then sure why not? It's no sillier than having a Black Panther movie without Black Panter in it which is what they decided to do for some nonsensical reason under the guise of somehow "honoring" Chadwick Boseman, despite his family disagreeing & felt that the T'Challa should have been recast.

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It doesn't seem like you really want to have a sensible conversation, because you are posing a nonsensical question. Why would a character whose defining trait is being black be portrayed by a white actor? How would it make sense for the king of an African nation, and a nation that has specifically hidden from the rest of the world for centuries, and is populated entirely by black Africans, have a white king? Moreover, why is a gimmick necessary? The first Black Panther film is the 5th-highest grossing film of all time, and the MCU has released 28 films and has yet to need a gimmick in order to turn a profit.

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No reason why a made up character couldn't be white, you're just racist.

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Yeah I don't understand these racists, it's just fiction after all.

I bet they are racist when other fictional characters are race swapped too...

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Oh yes I'm sure Mr/Mrs FilmBuff is currently having "sensible conversations" about the "gimmick" of black hobbits in the new Amazon LOTR show too, seeing as how Middle Earth is a representation of England with the Shire being populated entirely by white hobbits...

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Sheena is Queen of the jungle.

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Black panther is the 13th highest grossing film of all time, just fyi. Still significant, but top 5 seemed dubious.

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It's #5

https://www.boxofficemojo.com/chart/top_lifetime_gross/

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That's only the domestic gross, not global.
https://www.boxofficemojo.com/chart/ww_top_lifetime_gross/?area=XWW

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The domestic gross is the list that matters. We're talking about an American film. Who cares what it made worldwide? But if that's important to you, then sure it is 13th globally. But again, no one cares. When we talk about the top-grossing films, the discussion is always about the U.S. domestic box office.

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LOL, everyone involved in the movie cares. Why do you suppose they care what side of a boarder their profits come from? Why do these big blockbusters create and edit movies to be more appealing to the massive Asian market? And no, I can't say that the discussion of biggest movies ever is generally limited to US box office. In fact, the opposite is most certainly true, hence the back and force between Avatar and MCU fans over who truly deserves the top spot.I think you've created that scenario in your head, evidently because it better supports some narrative that you wish to believe true. You could have just said "oh, I was mistaken" instead of coming across as silly when it turns out you were incorrect and doubling down on your mistake.

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This has nothing to do with a narrative or a mistake. Like most people, when I talk about the top-grossing films, I talk about what the films earned in the U.S. I'm sure the people who invested in the film care about every penny they make, but I have no stake in the film.

As for the rest of the gibberish you spewed, well, I made a straight-forward statement that I put more stock in what films do in the U.S. than what they do around the world, and you're bringing in all sorts of unrelated films and ideas. Perhaps you should take a long look in a mirror and ask yourself who's creating scenarios in their head.

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"But again, no one cares. When we talk about the top-grossing films, the discussion is always about the U.S. domestic box office."
You obviously were speaking for the general public. Nobody reading this statement thinks you're attempting to speak only for yourself. But hey, nice try with the backpeddling and deflecting, the truest signs of someone in the wrong, but not adult enough to admit it. Thanks for letting me know exactly who I'm dealing with so I won't waste anymore time with you. Ta-ta.

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I backpedaled by repeating the exact same point?

If you want to initiate some kind of argument, look elsewhere. I'm here to discuss the films, not get into petty back-and-forth debates or fling insults.

I made my point clearly, twice. If you'd like to discuss it, great, go for it. If not, let's end this now. Feel free to type another of your childish insults, as it seems you really want to have the last word.

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I guess you don't know what Ta-ta means.

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If you ever decide to get into history, you may be interested in African history and the numerous white rulers/kings that have ruled over various parts of the continent throughout history.

"Why would a character who's defining trait is being black be portrayed by a white actor?"
There are SO many reasons.
Actors schedules/previous bookings, some actors nail auditions while others don't, salary disputes, which agency they use, whether they're interested in the script/story, etc.

It's not like it's impossible.

Ever seen "Queen of the Dammed" (or read the book)?
One of Akasha's main traits was her "porcelain white skin that reflected the moonlight". They got Aalyiah to play the part.

It was COMPLETELY ass-backward, but the world somehow managed to keep on turning.

I'm giving an example of a character who's "supposed to be white, played by a black actress" though.

Were it the other way around, people like you would absolutely LOSE their Goddamned minds lol. True story.

It's a one-way street.

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We aren't talking about African history or any of the white rulers and kings who have ruled there, we're talking about the adaptation of a comic book. Historical kings are completely irrelevant to the discussion, as is a film about a vampire in which they cast Aaliyah as a character described in the book as having white skin. Ironically, the Aaliyah example is one that fits with your "actors schedules" sentence, as the vampire's skin color is of no consequence to the story or its themes, and you explained perfectly why the race of the person playing Akasha is inconsequential. Meanwhile, T'Challa's defining trait is that he is the black king of an African nation that has been hidden from the rest of the world for centuries, and is populated entirely by black Africans.

I don't know who these other "people like me" are, but I certainly don't care one way or the other about an actor's race in a role where race is irrelevant. I made a fairly straight-forward point that race rarely matters when it comes to a role in a film, but in the rare cases, like T'Challa, where it does, it makes sense to cast someone of the appropriate race.

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"I don't know who these other "people like me" are, but I certainly don't care one way or the other about an actor's race in a role where race is irrelevant."

Then we'll be looking forward to your criticisms of the casting for Amazon's Lord of the Rings.

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They are already remaking Lord of the Rings? I didn't know that. What are the casting choices you find objectionable?

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They show the hobbits fishing, describe elf voting procedures, and show orcs with broken bones set by molded plaster. Absolutely ridiculous casting choices.

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Yes. It was called Tarzan.

Not every movie and TV series need center on white men who have become a bore. The world wants stories about women and various racial and ethnic groups.

Upcoming "Warrior Queen" movie looks great!

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(Quote) "The world wants stories about women and various racial and ethnic groups"

By 'world' you mean a malcontent fraction of perma-offended agitators?

Because, box-office receipts say otherwise?

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To clarify, I was referring to the more intelligent people in the world.

Not people like yourself who want to watch the same rebooted, recycled, generic, clichéd, superhero formulaic plot for the zillionth time.

"I wish I were like you, easily amused."
- Nirvana

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(Quote) "To clarify, I was referring to the more intelligent people in the world"

Ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha!

So you're stating that only black actors should play 'Black Panther', whilst also bemoaning (Quote) "rebooted, recycled, generic, clichéd, superhero formulaic plotting"

...on the 'Black Panther sequel' boards?

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"So you're stating that only black actors should play 'Black Panther'"

You're delusional since I didn't. I already stated that white men play Tarzan.

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Keelai (quote) "I already stated that white men play Tarzan"

What makes you think Tarzan is black?

Tarzan is meant to be a white European (John Clayton II) son of Viscount & Lady Clayton (stranded in the jungles of equatorial Africa, circa 1888) When his parents are killed, apes adopt him, re-naming him 'Tarzan...Which literally means "White Skin"

Odd, that you (a self proclaimed 'Intelligent' person) would equate Tarzan with Black skin (merely because of the jungle trappings)
That's your own racism, rearing it's ugly head...You need to cancel yourself

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Why doesn't it bother you when white actors play nonwhite roles?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2016/01/28/100-times-a-white-actor-played-someone-who-wasnt-white/

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We've obviously established that I'm a racist (by default) by suggesting such outrageous folly...so (even though I'm not...let's say that I *am* a racist) which, if anything will prevent you pulling that label again (and instead perhaps having a rational argument to fall back onto)

I'm more concerned that you think Tarzan is a black character. For such a (self proclaimed) intellectual, you seem to know nothing about nothing (other than copying and pasting other people's articles)

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Don't deflect. Stay on topic.

Why doesn't it bother you when white actors play nonwhite roles?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2016/01/28/100-times-a-white-actor-played-someone-who-wasnt-white/

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You've done nothing but deflect (with the cutting and pastery of other people's opinions...as a poor substitute for your own?)

Here's my stance:

1) Why shouldn't a white person portray the black panther?

2) How come you know so little about Tarzan's actual heritage (fictional or not) given that you label everyone who disagrees with you a racist?

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to clarify, I was referring to the more intelligent people in the world.


That removes you from the equation.

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^^ This ^^

Well said Chilone.

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Most "intelligent people" don't ACTUALLY care though. It's not worth waiving a flag over, and certainly not worth dying on any hills.

Specific racial and ethnic groups want film/literature to be about specific racial and ethnic groups.

It's impossible to speak for the whole world though. It's impossible to speak for just a single stranger, never mind the entirety of Earth herself.

IMO, anyway.

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"Not every movie and TV series need center on white men who have become a bore. The world wants stories about women and various racial and ethnic groups."

Yes, the world is clamoring for the casting of various non-white racial and ethnic groups who themselves have become bores. A more intensive focus on superficial characteristics like race, gender, sexual orientation, and so forth is just what movies need to make them more captivating.

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You're equating good quality movies/TV series with only white straight males which reflects your personal bias. America's diversity should be reflected in TV and movies.

I grew up when EVERY family show was only with white families and characters.

I wanted to see black families too which eventually happened. Then, I complained about the lack of Hispanics which slowly happened. Then, Asian-Americans which is starting to take place only now.

My next request is to see Native-Americans and Pacific Islander family shows, etc..

I found interesting Canadian shows like Little Mosque on the Prairie and a few First Nation dramas and a TV channel. I'd like to see similar quality shows with diversity in my own country.

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(Quote) "I wanted to see black families too which eventually happened. Then, I complained about the lack of Hispanics which slowly happened"

Good God man, are you for real?

You sound like such a bedwetting, malcontent, spastic. Everyone on here has tore you a new one for your opinion (or lack of?) And you sneak back in with a (frankly) pathetic whinge about *YOUR* need to see more black faces on television (when you were a child)

Please elaborate on the proportionality on blacks in America back then (given that you're obviously a stickler for 'representation') Do you think (silly question?) that despite the actual small percentage of Blacks in America, that they're under-represented?

Or better yet, just pull your trusty race-card? (like you've done so many times, when faced with cold, hard facts)

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I already wrote that you only want white people in movies and TV series which you just confirmed.

You're not American. Why are you concerned with American business?

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What a troll.

a white actor “could” be take the lead role BUT if you paid attention to the comics and movies the Black Panther mantle is for a leader of one of the tribes of Wakanda - my money is on M’Baku

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It is fiction what does the colour of the actors skin matter. Isn't that what we are told conmstantly when they race swap a character.

We even had a black Queen of England who was based on the real life white Queen of England.

I'm guessing there were black Viking gods as well.... Oh Wait.

How come when it is white to black then that is fiction, made up character, not real and encouraged but black to white the skin colour suddenly becomes important. It is as if there is a one sided hypocrisy, who would have thought.

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What are you talking about? Tarzan is always played by white men.

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Ah the resident racist chimes in with nonsense I never said, referenced or inferred

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You're projecting since your entire diatribe is racist. You're so self-unaware.

White actors have played Black, Brown, Native-American and Asian characters and historical figures ad nauseum.

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You're projecting since your entire diatribe is racist

No it isn't. You also need to look up the word diatribe. At no point did I attack someone or something.

The only racist here is you. You are racist against white people and show it time and again with your hatred for them.

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Your diatribe is clearly an attack against black people.

Racists like yourself start a racist thread and then group bond over it by adding racist comments. Typical racist behavior.

I've already pointed out that its white actors who usually portray POC roles which you chose to completely ignore. That only proves you want to only spew racist nonsense about black people.

I'm not sorry to ruin your local MC KKK group hugfest.

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Tarzan is meant to be a white European (John Clayton II) son of Viscount & Lady Clayton (stranded in the jungles of equatorial Africa, circa 1888) When his parents are killed, apes adopt him, re-naming him 'Tarzan...Which literally means "White Skin"

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Tarzan doesn't mean white skin.

Why doesn't it bother you when white actors play nonwhite roles?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2016/01/28/100-times-a-white-actor-played-someone-who-wasnt-white/

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Tarzan doesn't mean white skin.


Tarzan is derived from the two ape words TAR and ZAN, meaning white skin. It was given him by his foster mother, Kala, the great she-ape


You do like showing yourself. Thinking you are dead clever without even looking it up first.

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It is fiction what does the colour of the actors skin matter.


It is fiction so it doesn’t matter but here you are pushing the issue on a website that is supposed to be fun not a place to discuss your biased agenda

GTFO

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Hey kid we'll talk about whatever tf we want to talk about without needing your approval at all.

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Talk about whatever you want baby girl, just know you’re not fooling anyone with your bigotry

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OK groomer

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What biased agenda.

The only biased agenda are the ones who defend white black race swaps because it is fiction and skin colour shouldn't matter but then make 100 arguements why black to white shouldn't happen because skin colour is important.

Pick one.

And no one needs your permissiom or anyones permission to talk about whatever they want to talk about.

So in your words. GTFO

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Sorry I hurt your feelings with my comments baby girl.

But if you’re too fragile to handle people’s responses you should GTFO

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So you have nothing to offer and resort to low brow attempts at assuming that somehow a conversation online with a stranger hurt my feelings? Hmm ok.

I hadn't even thought about this thread until you replied. Knock yourself out if you want to think that.

You responded to me, not the other way around and ended with "GTFO" So it would be you who doesn't like peoples responses based on the one you gave me. I just gave you the same courtesy.

I really don't care what you think and based on this reply you have nothing to offer to the discussion.

All my points still stand.

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So magic energy storing metal is fine but a white tribal leader is too much of a stretch of the imagination?

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Tarzan is king of the jungle.

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Tarzan is meant to be a white European (John Clayton II) son of Viscount & Lady Clayton (stranded in the jungles of equatorial Africa, circa 1888) When his parents are killed, apes adopt him, re-naming him 'Tarzan...Which literally means "White Skin"

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"apes adopt him, re-naming him 'Tarzan...Which literally means "White Skin""

Apes don't talk. Tarzan is a made-up name which doesn't mean anything.

You're in major denial of U.S. racism.

A little history. Duke Kahanamoku, one of the greatest swimmers who popularized surfing attempted to have a movie career for years, but he wasn't white so ended up with small roles playing mainly Indians, etc. Meanwhile, his contemporary Johnny Weissmuller is very quickly offered major movie roles and ends up playing Tarzan. White-skin privilege.

I assume you believe there should be white-skin privilege in the Black Panther movie, also. But, I repeat you are denying U.S. racism! Stan Lee and Jack Kirby created the character because there were no black superheroes because of white racism. All superheroes were white!!!! Do you want ALL superheroes to remain white?? If so, why?????

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Never said apes talk in real life (only in the book...which you clearly know nothing about, despite constantly bemoaning about the character?)

Feel free to look it up...in Edgar Rice Boroughs book, the apes have a 'language' of their own...and dub the (white) boy 'Tarzan' (meaning 'White Skin')

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I think you are making his point for him. Yes, there is existing lore behind the character that dictates he should be black. However, in case you haven't noticed, they don't mind undoing that lore for white character when they switch them to non-white.

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Oh boo boo. One less “white” character out there.

Small price to pay after enslaving, and oppressing a group of people

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Do you actually know anyone who enslaved someone or was enslaved themselves? Or are you just posturing because you can't logically counter the very valid point being made? Essentially, are you saying it's OK now for certain skin colors to be racist to make up for the past of long ago?

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Slavery was abolished two centuries ago and the Civil Rights Act was passed over half a century ago. Get over it.

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Slavery was NOT abolished. Only limited. I suggest you read the Constitution.

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13th Amendment:

“Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.”

Why don’t YOU read the Constitution, ignoramus?

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You're the one who is clearly deficient in reading comprehension. Reread the amendment again. Slowly.

It limits slavery, not abolishes.

Vagrancy laws were then created to continue slavery. Present-day slavery continues throughout the U.S..
https://innocenceproject.org/13th-amendment-slavery-prison-labor-angola-louisiana/

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There are no white people buying off black people and forcing them to perform manual labor from sun up to sundown, without any pay. That’s gone now. Get with the program.

Having to perform manual labor as a consequence for committing a crime? I don’t see anything wrong with that. You do?

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I've never known anyone who's kept slaves, or anyone who's been a slave though. Have you?
Do you know anyone over 200 years old?

What a stupid comment.

"Small price to pay for your ancestors doing something clearly beyond your control" lol. Your ignorance is palpable.

Most of the time, the white devil (white people) didn't actually stalk through Africa capturing people. They simply went to the ports and bought the captives that other Africans (black people) had already caught and rounded-up.

It was much easier and less time consuming to buy blacks off the blacks, than it was to venture into the unknown, risking death and disease.

That's the way we learned it in school, anyway.
Not saying whitey wasn't complicit (before you say that was the point I'm trying to make lol)
I'm just saying that EVERYONE was complicit and millions of people wouldn't have been bought/sold and shipped from ports like the ones in Benin, Lagos, Grand-Popo, (and more).

These ports would have been absolutely useless to the slave-trade had African communities like the Alladah (for example) hadn't been rounding up and selling "their own people" in innumerable numbers.

Lotta history books out there, not much reason to not understand the way it was.

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^Handclap^

Blacks (conveniently) forget that they invented slavery, sold their own into it (and still practice it to this very day)

Those that were born in western countries, constantly bemoan their location and dress, talk and identify with countries/continents....that they'd never actually want to live in?

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Just like I thought. You hate blacks.

Your OP is an anti-black, racist diatribe.

Your latest comment is filled with anti-black lies.

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Feel free to refute anything I've said?

Did Blacks not sell their own into slavery?

Do blacks still practice such?

You probably think the evil white man went over to darkest Africa (armed with butterfly nets)

You're so full of shit, you need a flush installed into your neck?

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This person is obviously a brainwashed liberal who uses race-baiting as a crutch with people who don’t agree with her.

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What were "evil white men" doing in Africa and America? Stay in hellhole Europe continuing to enslave white people aka: Slavs.

Both Africans and Native-Americans were happily minding their own business when their land was invaded, people slaughtered and enslaved by a bunch of interlopers fleeing from inbred monarchs.

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Hey, newsflash. White men didn’t invent slavery. Slavery has been going on for thousands of years, and is still going on another countries. Many of the slave owners are not white people. Where is your outrage about that? It’s not a race specific concept.

Also newsflash. Africans and Native-Americans were not happily getting along with each other - They were constantly fighting and slaughtering each other for thousands of years long before white settlers arrived. They were conquering and taking land from each other, often in ways more brutal and more creatively than the white Europeans ever did. It’s impossible to know which land belonged to which tribe originally, if Native-Americans first owned a particular piece of land at all.

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You're clueless. Native-Americans didn't believe humans could OWN land.

False equivency. European warfare was brutal and consisted of large-scale slaughter. Monarchs had no problem repeatedly sending poor people to war in order to take all the wealth for themselves. Native-American warfare was smaller and far less deadly. Their societies were more egalitarian and democratic. 94% of European land was owned by the monarchy and their rich aristocratic friends while the majority of people starved because of greed.

You maintained the greed and selfishness of Old Europe by complaining about a token black superhero.

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Then why are you leftists demanding we apologize for taking “their” land?

All you’re doing is proving my point with your incoherence.

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Europeans have no right to own any land in America. See how it works both ways!

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That’s kind of a moot point, you hypocrite. If you expect me to give up living in America because of my ancestry, guess what - it ain’t gonna happen, you racist bitch.

Chelsea The Golden Retriever book series:

Facebook:
https://www.facebook.com/chelsea.the.golden.retriever

Twitter:
https://twitter.com/ChelseaTheGold2

YouTube:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCBybeUpta53ima7eYKMugFA

Author's Website:
danielkeithaustin.com

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The truth triggered you!

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What truth, you delusional, brainwashed lunatic?

All I’ve seen you do is tell lie after lie, and these lies are actually harmful. You leftists like to claim that the truth harms people (Such as there are only men and women and you are only born one or the other, and you can’t change it) but it’s your lies that actually do it. If anything triggers me, it’s that.

Chelsea The Golden Retriever book series:

Facebook:
https://www.facebook.com/chelsea.the.golden.retriever

Twitter:
https://twitter.com/ChelseaTheGold2

YouTube:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCBybeUpta53ima7eYKMugFA

Author's Website:
danielkeithaustin.com

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Your ad hominem attacks demonstrate that you obviously ran out of defense for your ridiculous point of view a few comments ago.

If you don't have a coherent response, then you should quietly go away.

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I’m not going anywhere. I have given you a coherent response. You have the ridiculous and inherent point of view. You are out of touch with reality. You are denying history, denying reality, and endorsing the acceptable sexism of modern times.

Chelsea The Golden Retriever book series:

Facebook:
https://www.facebook.com/chelsea.the.golden.retriever

Twitter:
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YouTube:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCBybeUpta53ima7eYKMugFA

Author's Website:
danielkeithaustin.com

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Ad hominem attacks are usually a marker of surrender, therefore I accept your surrender graciously.

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Fuck you.

Chelsea The Golden Retriever book series:

Facebook:
https://www.facebook.com/chelsea.the.golden.retriever

Twitter:
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YouTube:
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Author's Website:
danielkeithaustin.com

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I rest my case.

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"I've never known anyone who's kept slaves, or anyone who's been a slave though. Have you?

Yes, slavery still exists in the U.S.. It was only limited, never abolished. Read the Constitution. White men still profit from ongoing slavery today.

"selling "their own people""

Your statement that blacks are homogenous and one group is as racist as saying all blacks look alike. Blacks never sold "their own people".

You're the one who clearly hasn't read any of the history books.

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Blacks never sold "their own people".


The Portuguese, in the 16th century, were the first to buy slaves from West African slavers and transport them across the Atlantic.


Can you read? Now read the first to buy slaves from West African Slavers. Hmmm I wonder what colour West African Slavers were. I'll give you a hint. It starts with Bl and ends in ack.

https://www.rmg.co.uk/stories/topics/history-transatlantic-slave-trade
How did slavery start in Africa?
Slavery existed in Africa before Europeans arrived. However, their demand for slave labour was so great that traders and their agents searched far inland, devastating the region. Powerful African leaders fuelled the practice by exchanging enslaved people for goods such as alcohol, beads and cloth.

How about that. African Leaders exchanging "Enslaved" people.

Learn some history before trying to tell others.

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Trans-Atlantic Slave Trade was begun by the Portuguese whose greed was so excessive and disruptive that the centuries old trade system throughout Africa was destroyed and parts of Africa were depopulated by the millions.

The cruel race-based, multi-generational chattel slavery practiced throughout America where blacks were 3/5th human and had zero rights had nothing to do with the type of slavery practiced in other parts of the world.

Continue to justify an atrocity! What's your excuses for the Holocaust and theft of Native-American land?

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So you are gonna rewrite history and continue your lie that Africans didn't sell Africans to Europeans.

Ok then. Enjoy living in you fantasy world

What's your excuses for the Holocaust and theft of Native-American land?

That is called whataboutism. It is not the discussion at hand. What has the holocaust have to do with the African slave trade. Nothing so why bring it up.

I know why because as you always do you will move the goalposts further and further even when you know you are wrong which you most definately are.

Africans sold Africans to each other and then to Europeans. That is an absolute fact that cannot be denied unless you are a racist like yourself who hates white people.

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Your white supremacist "history" is a false equivalency.

African slaves were criminals, debtors and war captives who still had rights like owning property, marrying free people and buying their own freedom. It was also rare.

Trans-Atlantic Slave Trade practiced by Europeans was pure evil which you're justifying. Innocent people enslaved based only on race with zero rights. And like I said previously, European excessive greed depopulated much of Africa.

"whataboutism"
Nope. Modern racism started in Spain against Jewish people 500 years ago which was then expanded to justify the Trans-Atlantic Slave Trade, land theft of Americas and later the Holocaust. There is a pattern of evil! Europeans committed a lot of atrocities around the world out of pure greed.

Continue to blame the victim and justify your hatred.

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Africa still enslaves people to this day, so stfu.

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Martin Freeman!!!!

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They really need to make one of those Marvel Shorts available on Disney Plus about that!

This white CIA agent is forbidden to leave Wakanda, so he goes hiking and finds a new cave full of purple flowers. Realizing the only legal way he can leave is to become king and grant himself emigration rights, he eats a few flowers, and enters the competition to become the new king...

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And give him a shot of Super Soldier Serum and he'd be good to go!! 👍👍

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And if the Wakandan powers that be give him trouble for cheating to win the competition (duh), he tells them that if they let him go quietly, he'll tell them where the purple flowers are...

Marvel needs to make this!

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100 times a white actor played someone who wasn't white
https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2016/01/28/100-times-a-white-actor-played-someone-who-wasnt-white/

I want to know the reason why the OP wants ALL movie roles to go only to white men.

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I didn't see the OP say he wanted all movie roles to go to white people, he only asked why Black Panther can't be played by a white person, since more and more white characters are being played by black actors.

The pics you posted where white men played POC characters showed that the actors at least tried to look the part, in a time where POC actors weren't exactly readily available in large amounts. POC actors today don't even try to show the same courtesy when playing white characters, almost out of spite.

Your link to the Washington Post is locked behind a pay-wall, so you'll have to find something else, something free, for whatever point you're trying to make.

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The overwhelming number of movie roles still go to white men as the OP pointed out therefore white men want ALL the roles even the very few POC token ones.

"the actors at least tried to look the part,"
Not true. Many nonwhite characters and historical figures are played by white actors who are misrepresenting them to be white.

The article is too long, but I copy-pasted a few paragraphs:

"“World Trade Center,” 2006: William Mapother played Marine Sargeant Thomas, one of the men who helped rescue two Port Authority Police Officers from the rubble of the World Trade Center. In real life, Thomas is black; Mapother is white."

“Stuck,” 2007: Mena Suvari played Brandi Boski, a character clearly based on Chante Mallard, who is black in real life."

"“Pay It Forward,” 2000: Kevin Spacey played social studies teacher Eugene Simonet, who was white in the movie but black (and named Reuben St. Clair) in the book."

"“Starship Troopers,” 1997: White actor Casper Van Dien played Johnny Rico, a now-white character who was of Filipino descent in the book on which the movie was based."

“Hud,” 1963: Patricia Neal, a white actress, won an Oscar for her role as Alma, a sought-after housekeeper who fends off the advances of multiple men. In the book on which the movie was based, “Alma” was “Halmea,” a black woman. The movie’s screenwriter later said, “We would have loved to keep her black for the movie,” but “in those days you simply couldn’t do it.”

“The Good Earth,” 1937: Every lead actor in this movie, based on Pearl S. Buck’s novel about a family of Chinese farmers, was white.

“King of Kings,” 1961: White actor Jeffrey Hunter played Jesus in yet another biblical epic populated almost entirely by white folks playing characters of Middle Eastern descent.


BTW, "attempting to look the part" by taping-up eyes to look Chinese or wearing minstrel blackface are insulting.

"POC actors weren't exactly readily available"
Nonsense! There were always POC actors who were and are discriminated against by a racist industry.

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The overwhelming number of movie roles still go to white men as the OP pointed out therefore white men want ALL the roles even the very few POC token ones.


Only in white-dominant countries like America and Europe. In black-dominant countries, most roles go to black people; in Asian countries most roles go to Asians, etc. White people don't want POC roles, they're just pointing out the double standard and hypocrisy of others complaining about white-washing while promoting color-washing. There are POC stories to be told, so tell them instead of color-washing white characters and stories. Or just watch movies/tv shows from POC countries.

Not true. Many nonwhite characters and historical figures are played by white actors who are misrepresenting them to be white.


1. The makers of the World Trade Center movie didn't even know Thomas was black till after they filmed it.
2. Brandi Boski is an original character, so it doesn't really count.
3. Kevin Spacey played an original character, so again, it doesn't count.
4. Casper was chosen because he looked like the more ideal fascist soldier, which Hollywood for some reason thinks only applies to white people. Sounds to me like whites were hurt more than Filipinos.
5. They admitted they wanted a black actress, but they couldn't do it. And you already said you don't like black-face.
6. Based on the pictures I saw online, they at least tried to look Chinese.
7. Many Jews have very light skin, and are often confused for white people. Jesus isn't exactly popular with the Jews anyway so it's no surprise they get white people to play him most of the time.

BTW, "attempting to look the part" by taping-up eyes to look Chinese or wearing minstrel blackface are insulting.


Not all make-up is minstrel or blackface. It's no more insulting than when Zoe Saldana had to wear green make-up to look like an accurate Gamora in Guardians of the Galaxy.

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You're gaslighting. You're also ignorant.

White culture dominates in black-majority countries. Official European languages, American movies and TV shows dominate, white models on packages, white colonialism and post-slavery repercussions, white beauty standards, European and American interference in government and economic policies which maintain impoverishment, self-hatred, etc..

"White people don't want POC roles"

Whites NEED to replace POC history and roles with whites to maintain racism and the lie of white superiority.

That is the reason brown-skinned ancient Egyptians are portrayed by white actors, 1/3 black and Mexicans cowboys omitted from Westerns, Crispus Attucks and other black people's history distorted or questioned and ALL history which isn't European continues to NOT be properly taught in schools.

No, brown-skinned, dark curly-haired Middle-Eastern Jewish people two thousand years ago didn't look like blond-haired, blue-eyed Jeffrey Hunter. Only white Christians playing Jewish roles = Antisemitism, colorism and racism.

You're justifying historical and ongoing Hollywood whitewashing. Your dismissive comment about minstrel is racist.

One token black superhero movie and racists like yourself want that too.

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You're gaslighting.


lol That's rich coming from you.

White culture dominates in black-majority countries.


It might be popular in those countries, just like anime and manga are popular in America and Europe, with manga out-selling western comics in their own turf, but black-majority countries still have their own media with mostly-black actors and celebrities. Squid Game, a Korean show, was the most popular show ever for nearly a month when it came out on Netflix. If something is good, people from all over the world will watch it if they have access to it. In America, there wasn't always a supply of POC actors, so whites either filled those roles or omitted them altogether. It's no different from long ago when women couldn't act so men had to play women. These days there's more POCs available so they can fill in those roles. Meanwhile, white roles are being color-washed out of ignorant spite.

Whites NEED to replace POC history and roles with whites to maintain racism and the lie of white superiority.


Ah, who's the real gaslighter here? It's the other way around, buddy. Whites are being replaced by every color, usually black, all to maintain the racist notion of white guilt. In truth, no race is better or worse than the other, all have their accomplishments, all have people that helped advance the world in some form or another. If you disagree with that, you're a racist. So, are you a racist? Be honest now.

One token black superhero movie and racists like yourself want that too.


Blade, Hancock, Black Panther, all successful black movies, and not a single white person wanted them for themselves. Meanwhile Wonder Woman, Aqua Man, and the various other white superheros that were color-washed, it appears that it's POCs that want white roles because they can't promote their already-existing POC characters and stories, and can't create more of their own.

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"In America, there wasn't always a supply of POC actors"

That's dumb! Blacks are at least 10% of the population nationwide and higher in the South and women are 50%. TV shows and movies were all white and male dominated until lawsuits and various equality movements changed that mainly starting in the 60s and 70s.

"It's no different from long ago when women couldn't act so men had to play women."

Women could always act. You mean they were FORBIDDEN to act in certain European societies because of discrimination. You just made my point about discrimination!

Black-majority countries speak European languages because European culture, values and products dominate because of colonialism.

The OP started this topic about replacing black actors and you and your racist MC friends have chimed in to agree.

Historically, superhero comics were lily-white and male-dominated. The franchise owners are correcting the racism, sexism and other obvious discrimination in newer releases. I'm positive you're upset that they aren't maintaining the bigoted practices of the past.

You believe in the white supremacist "Replacement Theory". Enough said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ftbl-ZszM_M

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That's dumb! Blacks are at least 10% of the population nationwide


Today, sure, but wasn't always the case. Decades ago they were less than that, and that's not including the other POCs. There weren't a lot of Chinese, Native American, or Egyptian actors working for Hollywood in the 20th century, and traveling and importing was much more limited back then than it is now.

Women could always act. You mean they were FORBIDDEN to act


That's what I said kiddo. I know they're capable of acting, but back then they couldn't due to whatever laws and customs there were at the time. Limited resources meant people had to work with what they had. Unlike women though, there were very little POC actors back then.

because of colonialism


Or the content is enjoyable and popular, just like Japanese and South Korean media are popular worldwide, so much so that people want to learn to read and speak their language, and even move into their countries.

I'm positive you're upset that they aren't maintaining the bigoted practices of the past.


lol you want us to be bigots so badly. We've been supporting content creators, regardless of race, gender, sexuality, or political beliefs long before you were even a concept to your parents. We've done more for them than you ever have, and that upsets you to no end. What a sad pathetic child you are.

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'The very heartbeat of racism is denial'
I'm not surprised you're denying racism.

"Today, sure, but wasn't always the case."

Blacks used to be a higher percentage around 19%. Likely higher since they were only counted as 3/5th human because of white racism.
https://www.infoplease.com/us/society-culture/race/african-american-population

"There weren't a lot of Chinese, Native American, or Egyptian actors working for Hollywood"

There were more than enough for roles. They were discriminated against as white actors took their roles. Bruce Lee was discriminated against because ABC didn't want a Chinese actor playing a Chinese role in the Kung Fu show which he created.

Whites also took Native-American and Hispanic roles while discriminating against POC.

Swimmer and surfer Duke Kahanamoku tried to have an acting career for decades, but was relegated to small roles because he wasn't white like Weissmuller.

The brownface practice only stopped about 20 years ago after POC actors complained about white racism.

And Sarah Silverman recently complained about how Jewish actors are never hired to play main Jewish characters in film and TV.

The official language in Korea and Japan are not European. You must be delusional.

"We've been supporting..."
Jim Crow and other forms of discrimination.

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lol thanks for proving me right that decades ago the black demographic percentage was lower than it is now, particularly during the time period when movies first started becoming a thing, which was around 1885-1888. Before that, while they may have had a bigger demographic, it's irrelevant since we're talking about POC actors in movies. When the census was first taken, Americans had bigger problems to worry about than muh representation, and speaking of which...

Jim Crow and other forms of discrimination.


You can thank your Democrat buddies for Jim Crow, slavery, racism, and all that other stuff. The oldest political party in America and they're still up to their dirty tricks even today. And yet people keep voting for them, so whatever problems they claim they're facing, they brought it upon themselves. I maintain that there weren't a lot of POC actors in the 20th century, especially the earlier periods, even if there were non-white roles. But if you really think those roles were taken from them, you can thank Democrats and their liberal followers for doing so.

Anyway, it was right-wing whites that fought alongside the blacks during the Civil War, won the war and for the most part ended slavery (aside from the few Democrats that allegedly still do it); it was right-wing whites that supported blacks during the Civil Rights movement; and while it was a Democrat that introduced the Civil Rights act of 1964, it was Democrats that were mostly against it, while Republicans were mostly in favor of it and helped get it passed, which not only benefited POCs but women as well.

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I say Jet Li should take over the role.

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