MovieChat Forums > Knives Out (2019) Discussion > Why the impossible alibi for Marta???

Why the impossible alibi for Marta???


So he's such a master of detective stories that decides to kill himself in front of her knowing he had the morphine in his blood, tell her to come back from the window and impersonate him, etc....
WTF???

A much better and easier alibi would be: quick Marta, leave now, I'm gonna shout goodbye to you so they hear me alive in the house after you've left, then I'll kill myself, so you're at least not a suspect of my slaying.

Wouldn't that be the FIRST plan anybody with half a brain would envision?

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No because the autopsy would still show (as far as he knew) a massive amount of morphine in his system. If he had half a brain that is.

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Yes I pointed that out too, the morphine part was unavoidable at that point in his original plan too.
That's why I stated "you're at least not a suspect of my SLAYING", they could do nothing about the morphine (and as part of her alibi she could have said that "he injected the morphine himself before suicide" anyway).

But with my obvious plain plan, they just would have avoided to add a TON of other clues that are impossible to cover up.
I'm just pointing out it's evident that a normal person would just come up with my plan, I don't believe that a master of investigations like Harlan would think his plan was even remotely doable with modern csi, nor I believe he couldn't come up with my simple plan.

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Yeah but cunning, elaborate plan / obvious plan makes no difference - the morphine would have been detected and determined as the cause of death.

That's why I said if even he had half a brain. Because he's not supposed to have just half a brain - he's supposed to be a very intelligent crime / murder whodunnit author who'd be well aware of the fact that the morphine would have been traced. So it should really be considered ridiculous that he'd come up with either of these daft plans.

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Given how quickly morphine acts in the human body, a massive injection of it isn't going to allow you time to do much of anything except crumple to the floor and then OD.

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Not from what we see in the movie...he has 10 minutes, that's what SHE specifically says.
So in 10 minutes, he would have plenty of time to carry on my 40 seconds plan.

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That's why I stated "you're at least not a suspect of my SLAYING", they could do nothing about the morphine (and as part of her alibi she could have said that "he injected the morphine himself before suicide" anyway).


Yes but how does she prove that he injected himself? Remember HE knew that she gets everything in the will. I am sure unless she could prove that he injected the morphine himself then any person with any proportion of a brain would believe she gave him the morphine and just told everyone that he injected it himself considering that it was she who got everything.

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Really simple solution here.

Does what the OP said and says goodbye to Marta loudly. Goes back into his study, puts the morphine needle in his arm and waits.

That way it looks like a suicide by overdose. They know it’s not Marta because she had left already and everyone heard the guy say goodbye.

If he had done it that way he also would have realised that he wasn’t given the wrong stuff and laughed it off calling Marta and telling her hey yeah I’m still alive.

But the guy liked drama and wanted a dramatic death. He wrote mystery books so he made a convoluted plan because that’s what he does in his mystery books.

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They would have thought she administered the hot shot. Just saying goodbye is not enough. People can come back. She would physically have to be in another place far away and with witnesses.

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Probably his room has no balcony and his window is not facing the front of the house.

She spent around 3-5 minutes to search for the cure. After that, he took the rest of the time to explain the plan to Marta. If he used that time to wait for Marta to finish preparing to leave and goes back down the stair and shout at her, there is a chance that it will be too late, the 10 minutes is just an estimate. Remember, he killed himself right after Marta leaves the room.

And he's also eccentric that way.

The thing that bugs me is how Marta can unconsciously tell the difference between the two medicines only by its slight color and viscosity discrepancy. But when it matter and she focus on them, she can't.

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Yes they wasted a lot of time, so there was little left.
Still, to put on a coat and rush out would take about one minute, he would just have to shout bye and slit his throat. Not ideal, but compared to the crap he came up with (which took him more than one minute to explain anyway) my plan seems obvious.
I agree he's eccentric, but his plan is unrealistic to think and impossible to perform.

Marta being a "good nurse" was 007 theory, I agree with you it was very unevenly portrayed in the film, I would consider her a very crappy nurse, and criminally so.

BTW, just noticed that the whole movie is built on the coincidence of her switching the vials and Ransom switching the liquids ON THE SAME EVENING: what are the odds of that????

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Heisenberg:
Your plan has a huge whole in it in that it requires that people simply believe her.

You wanted him to "shout goodbye to you so they hear me alive in the house". He was at least two floors above everyone else. Your version of the alibi would need him to shout loud enough for people on the first floor to hear him and why on earth would he shout "goodbye" that loud to someone who is just exiting the room?

The person that is a light sleeper might have heard him but would not be able to confirm what was said. She would have just heard something"

BTW, just noticed that the whole movie is built on the coincidence of her switching the vials and Ransom switching the liquids ON THE SAME EVENING: what are the odds of that????


She did not actually switch anything. When the vials dropped she picked them up. She did not read which was which because she knew from just looking at the liquid which was the morphine and which was the other. It was only when she DID look after injecting the regular medicine did she see the labels and at that point she doubted herself and thought she gave him the wrong medicine.

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Yes, how is that NOT her switching the vials???? Are you on crack?

I agree that the shouting might have been difficult to hear for people that were sleeping. But not everybody was asleep at that time, like Harlan says himself to her "make sure they see you getting out and point out the time". So, they both knew that other relatives were still up at that time.
Also, his plan had her come back and impersonate him in his robe, so again, they knew that somebody was gonna see her because they obviously were not sleeping.
So, them being asleep is not a valid reason for not hearing him.

If anything, shouting bye would look a bit strange (like, wouldn't he tell her bye while she's still up), but I meant "shout bye" as in to give a sign that he's still alive (he could have shouted something like "Marta don't forget to bring my book back tomorrow", like anything that you shout at the last minute after someone has just left).
Hey my plan is not bombproof, but it's easy, doable and looks like what anybody would come up with instead of that convoluted bs we see in this movie.

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Yes, how is that NOT her switching the vials???? Are you on crack?

Well, she picked up the vials. Choose the one with the medicine she wanted to use and used it. That is a perfect description of someone not switching vials. The key is this: The medicine IN the vial is the important thing and not the label on the vial.

To put it another way: You are at the Thrombey family picnic. Ransom has swapped the contents in the mustard and ketchup containers. You ask Marta to pass you the mustard. She looks at the containers and gives you the one with the Yellow stuff in it even though the label says "Ketchup". Are you going to accuse Marta of switching the containers and demand she give you the other one?

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Ahah, ok I got it, I guess you are right afterall:-)

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No matter what the discussion if I can put it in a Condiment analogy I can always get my point across. :)

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That's the right recipe!

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If he wanted to put her completely in the clear he should have just gathered the family, or at least one of them to witness him injecting himself with the rest of the morphine to show he was deliberately overdosing. Of course, he would then have realised it wasn't actually morphine and the film would have taken an entirely different turn of events.

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ANYTHING would be a better plan than the crap excuse for a plot we see in the movie.
Your idea is also valid, just something to show that it was a suicide and not her killing him.

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interesting. but imagine calling family to announce committing suicide? i think someone will try to stop him or blame marta for not stopping him. or medical examiners would find it suspicious that he died right away after taking it(since quite some time had already passed). your second point is based on hindsight though.

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Well you seem to forget that at the end, it turns out Marta did give him the correct dose of medication. And that if he hadn't knifed himself, he would've lived. I feel that plot twist is there for humor since this means Marta wasn't even in the wrong, and he only did so to to make sure she inherited everything.

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Harlan knew Walt would be smoking downstairs and would be seeing Marta leaving the house. It would look very odd if Walt hears 'goodbye' much after Marta left. This does not also cover up the time frame required for Morphine to take action (10 minutes). It would still mean that Marta gave morphine injection, she leaves, Harlan shouts goodbye and he dies.

Also, if Harlan wouldn't have orchestrated his Alibi by Marta, it would mean that Marta slit his throat.

And slitting the throat was necessary to imply suicide.

A smarter option would have been to play the Alibi by Marta as in the movie and then lie on the couch with a syringe in his hand and empty bottle of Morphine lying on the floor - implying suicide by Morphine overdose. This is because in the movie's original plan, Morphine would still be detected in the blood report raising some suspicion on Marta - This key fact was overlooked by Harlan which shouldn't be the case as he's an intelligent crime novelist and hence a minor flaw of the movie.





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Yep, Harlan should have just lain there with the morphine bottle and needle. After 15-20 minutes had passed, and he was still alive, he would have realized Marta was mistaken, called her, and all would be well. The whole movie is stupid.

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Yep, when I watch this film, I keep thinking the same thing!

This film has a lot of plot holes, very stupid.

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Why not just Harlan call the police and say he took too much after his nurse left and he can't find the antidote?

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Even better and cleaner.
There are so many better plans the the "genius" one in the movie.

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Or at the very least go to people in the house and tell them he took too much because he was still in pain after he sent Marta home.

The people in the house had no reason to lie to the cops to frame Marta yet, they all expected to get something in the will.

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Yes, that was my idea in my OP, let the other people in the house know that she did not kill him and that he is still alive after she left.

This movie is retarded.

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