Issues


I see from glancing at this film’s board that many arguments are afoot, the main one being (yet again.....yawn) the ‘inappropriate’ multi-racial casting choices.

I don’t agree with the casting choice for Lestrade as it was not correct for accuracy purposes of portraying that time period. However, it didn’t detract from the entertainment value of the film for me. I was already aghast by a few other things, namely the ridiculous story and premise of this errant 16 year old girl running amok in London, alone.....but the film was entertaining enough.
It was good to see Sam Claflin in something where he was almost unrecognisable; a good character piece.

This article below may be of interest to some, regarding the casting/ inclusion of black women in that time period as some think that black people weren’t around in 19th century England then, let alone a black woman who was working in a cafe!
https://www.ucl.ac.uk/history/news/2019/oct/uncovering-black-women-eighteenth-and-nineteenth-century-britain

A stand out problem for me was the fact that Enola’s initial dress purchased and worn when she first got to London! No self respecting female would wear a red dress; that’s a whore’s colour! Plus the style was not on trend at all!
This was set in 1900.....her dress was not a dress worn then, especially not be a young woman.
For example.... https://www.thevintagenews.com/2016/01/11/45164/

Was that a deliberate choice or an accident by the film makers?
I can’t imagine a book written for young people would involve a sub current of a nefarious shop keeper who a) sold her a whore’s dress that was 20 odd years out of fashion and then b) took her to a low class boarding house where she could probably BE a prostitute!
Surely Enola’s clever and progressive mother would have taught her only daughter about sex, sex workers, gender roles, dangers to women etc.

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The points you make are all good ones. I found the movie to be entertaining, and Brown was terrific. I realize there were persons of colour in 19th century London, but the film pushed it a bit too far, especially with the black martial arts lady. The main issue I had was that the audience is encouraged to think of Enola's mother and the martial arts lady as heroes, worthy of having their faces on postage stamps, yet they were in fact terrorists who had stockpiled a warehouse full of explosives. Yes, some of them were display fireworks, but there were also plain industrial explosives present, manufactured only for destructive purposes. As worthy a cause as female suffrage and rights were and are, I can't bring myself to admire anyone who intends to set off explosions in public places in order to make an ideological point. Those two women should have been in prison.

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Thank you.
One can only assume the women were part of The Women's Social and Political Union (WSPU) which was the militant branch of women’s suffrage campaign because of such violent intentions.....but that organisation wasn’t founded until 1903!
The fight for the vote was not solely a ‘white’ concern and all women were included, so it’s likely that non-Caucasian women were involved in suffrage. Around 1910 at its height, the suffrage movement had many Indian members.

‘In 1913 Christabel Pankhurst, co-founder and organising secretary of the WSPU, wrote: ‘If men use explosives and bombs for their own purpose they call it war, and the throwing of a bomb that destroys other people is then described as a glorious and heroic deed. Why should a woman not make use of the same weapons as men?’

I don’t agree with terrorist acts either.

I think the martial arts for women would have been a problem for many viewers, but it’s very interesting to note they were practised by women. A book entitled The Fine Art of Jujutsu was written in 1906 by Emily Diana Watts who taught it, and it’s the first known book on Japanese martial arts written in English by a female writer and teacher. Whilst I think it would be strange to have such a class space above a cafe, that kind of physical activity did obviously occur; whose to say that black women did not participate?

I personally don’t see a problem with the character of Edith (the martial arts/cafe woman) being black and working in a cafe. Coffee houses traditionally were places where political rebellions etc were formulated and, traditionally customers would have sometimes been served by indentured slaves. British society, particularly London, has been ethnically diverse for centuries. Women at the turn of the century, including non-Caucasian women, of low to moderate means (gauging by the size and location of the cafe) would have had to work and working in any kind of eating house would have been an acceptable job.

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The fight for the vote was not solely a ‘white’ concern and all women were included, so it’s likely that non-Caucasian women were involved in suffrage. Around 1910 at its height, the suffrage movement had many Indian members.


British Nationality and Status of Aliens Act 1914, which I think enabled anyone born in His Majesty's dominions to become British citizen, so non-whites could become British citizens as long as they were born in UK or one of the British colonies considered as part of "His Majesty's dominions", passed 4 years before Representation of the People Act 1918 or women’s voting right bill. I think these 2 bills were somewhat related.

So from 1915 women’s suffrage was no longer just a "white" issue.

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Pre-1915, although there is not much evidence of non-Caucasian women being involved in suffrage because of difficulty in finding them accurately in records etc., it’s not impossible.
It’s very interesting to see the documented differences between Asian (Indian) and African, Caribbean, Afro-American etc in terms of their names, which hinder the research process, to accurately assess their race.
These quick snippets of information are of interest relating to this subject:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/in-pictures-42837451

https://www.fawcettsociety.org.uk/blog/diversity-british-female-suffrage-movement

There seems to be a terrible implication in the British Nationality and Status of Aliens Act though which took away British nationality away from women who married ‘aliens’!
https://exhibition.mixedmuseum.org.uk/museum/timeline/british-nationality-and-status-of-aliens-act

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There were clear evidence of non-Caucasian women involvement before 1914 but I am just not sure whether they were British citizens and entitled to vote or not.

I think before 1915 Denization was the only other way for a non-Caucasian to become British citizen, but I don't know how many had went through that process.

Maybe it was in the spirits of community support.

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There seems to be a terrible implication in the British Nationality and Status of Aliens Act though which took away British nationality away from women who married ‘aliens’!

I think that changed after 1933. After that the women could choose whether to acquire her husband's nationality.

By 1948 dual citizenship was allowed.

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Oh yes, I was just concentrating on the earlier times.
It’s all very interesting isn’t it?

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Yes, it is. That is one good thing about movies related to history, they let us discuss and learn a lot about it.

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Some of these people simply don't know how to pick their battles to avoid looking like petulant crybabies.

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Exactly. This is what these good, honest, guardians of history / definitely not racists need to understand.

Just wait until the inevitable remake of Zulu comes along and Michael Caine and all the rest of his heroic Imperialist British Empire Officer buddies have been replaced by Michael B Jordan, John David Washington, etc.

When we are all cheering them on as they blast down hordes of white spear wielding savages, they will be spraying out their coffee, proclaiming "No, no, stop the film! This is an affront to historic accuracy! These chaps would have been the blacks and the officers gunning them down would have been white, this is ALL WRONG! For historical accuracy's sake we simply MUST see whites gunning down blacks!!!" but by then it will be too late.

No one will even listen to their genuine argument of the merits of racial segregation of actors for the sacred good of historical accuracy as they will long since have been discredited by any remotely moderate thinking person as racists for moping over the casting in fantasy productions such as this.

One which has the girl from Stranger Things playing the later day fabricated teenage sister of the world's most famous Detective; adapted from a children's novel which itself rips off fictional works from over a century ago.

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You raised some valid points, though fashion was probably not something well discussed as a part of Enola's education since Enola did not mention it at all and I don't think they threw parties where fashion would become an issue. Young people's love of bright colors could have been the reason for the choice.

I agree that dress and large amount of cash, probably made the shop owner think she was a runaway prostitute from countryside or another city moving to London city to make some big bucks. I think that is why the shop owner put her at a place likely for prostitutes.

Unless of course it was Enola's plan all along to disguise as a prostitute (lady of the night). But that would have been a risky move, she could have been robbed showing people she was a young girl new in town and full of cash. So that part was problematic no matter how you think about it.

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I just think it was a pretty dress and Millie looked good in it.

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I guess OP and I are the sort of people pay attention to this kind of details.

The movie praised Enola's observational skills and the ability to disguise. And none, I mean none in the movie other than her wearing that color and she meant it as a disguise.

So it was either her mishap or her purpose.

Her action should match the role. I get annoyed when I found out it didn't.

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As a participant in many discussions about Period Dramas on the old IMDb boards I'm fully aware of how seriously some people take matters of correct costumes, manners and such. I never did because I didn't go into it at that level of detail. So long as it looks like a costume from back in the day that's good enough for me.


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.....I guess OP and I are the sort of people pay attention to this kind of details......

Yes, yes we are! 😉☺️

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Although the movie was based on a book. But most things in the book were ignored. That part was never in the book.

In the book Enola disguised as a widow from the beginning. She did not meet the young Tewksbury on the train. She run across a police detective and that was how she landed on the case. Also there was no assassin, Tewksbury was kidnapped at home.

Of course there were no female militant group and her mother actually gone to live with the Romani (Gypsies).

So all the points that were problematic were added in the movie by writers and directors, probably in a rush, for the "inspirational" & political messages.

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Thank you, that’s very insightful.

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Here's the cover of the graphic novel adaptation:-
https://www.idwpublishing.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/2018_10_EnolaHolmes_Marquess.jpg

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Graphic novel? I guess the books must have been popular even before made into a movie.

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Thanks! But God knows what she’s wearing there lol

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