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It could be any tale of a poor population rising up against the rich, but they just happened to set it in the DC universe. Does that dissatisfy you?

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A 3 postcount account shaming people... lol.

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Yeah...and you basically just repeated what you said in your original post.

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But now he has 5 postcount.

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What if none of what is seen in the film is completely real, what if that final scene in the film with Joker being with the shrink is the end part of him telling her his story of how he got to how he is and that is what we watched.

Maybe Joker weaved his story into a Charles Dickens Tale of Two Cities way. For example as in 1988's The Killing Joke maybe this is Joker and one of his: "Well you see sometimes, I remember it one way, sometimes another...if I'm going to have a past, I prefer it to be multiple choice! My point is...my point is, I went crazy when I saw what a black awful joke the world was...I went crazy as a coot!" moments and we just weren't let in on it (left open for the viewer to decide).

Sure the film is set in a Wall Street Gordon Gekko kind of 80's world where greed is good, however maybe there wasn't really any uprisings going on and it was just one of Joker's many delusions playing out.

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Wait....did this shrink have blond hair and an odd name?

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Nah it's not Harley Quinn or even an early version of Leslie Thompkins prior to her becoming Bruce's psychologist come surrogate mother.

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Okay. See, Harleen Quinzel first met the Joker in Arkham Asylum and worked as his therapist for a time, until he twisted her mind through their sessions. You can understand why I'd ask if it was her.

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Absolutely understand hence why I understood who you meant. Harley is one of the new(er) characters introduced to that side of the continuity via Batman The Animated Series that fitted in really well, so much so it's hard to believe she has only been around in the continuity for 27 years (since 1992) out of the 80 years Batman has been around.

It's one of the reasons though I can take this film quite well and accept it, as there is The Killing Joke line plus The Joker that first appeared in 1940 is not that far removed from the one in this film. Like I said below he was toned right down in 1950 to 1970, hence the clown prince in that campy late 60's TV Series, so seeing it portrayed in this film like it is wasn't at all unJoker like for me.

Will say though the part in the film about giant rats infesting Gotham threw me a bit, especially with Ratcatcher set to appear in Suicide Squad 2 and it being not really resolved in this film, mainly because this was said to be stand alone. Then again there were a few other things that occurred in other Batman incarnations that were in this film, like there is the Earth One series where Thomas Wayne was running for Mayor because City Hall was so corrupt, however in that Oswald Cobblepot was that corrupt Mayor and planned on having Thomas killed but a mugger beat him to it.

So yeah not so sold on it being a stand alone with no connections to anything before.

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While I don't quite share your Heath Ledger Joker worship, I can't help but agree with how accurate the phrase "Fake Joker origin movie" is regarding this movie. At least that's the feeling I had about it and I had no pre conceived biases about this film going in.

I completely ignored the hype & controversy (which I don't even get in retrospect)& ultimately felt that the whole "Joker" aspect of the film was superficially added on to better "sell" the film which appears to have worked according to box office numbers floating around. It could have just as easily been a story about any mentally damaged individual's steady decent into psychosis.

Phoenix's depiction of a mentally ill person was solid but beyond that I found there to be nothing special about the movie.

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Yep that it could be about anyone does take it away from Joker a little. When Arthur mentions how he thinks he’d been better off when he was hospitalised and the social worker asks him if he’s given any more thought about why he was hospitalised. I actually thought of Charles Manson and his story of neglect from childhood on and how he said that he was better off in prison, like back in 1967 telling authorities that prison had become his home and requesting permission to stay.

I even questioned whether this was the definitive Joker or not, yes it matches with the very first Joker from 1940 before they toned him down to being a goofy prankster in the late 1950s to the 1970's when he got back to his darker roots. However, there is something in my mind that says this is just one Joker who went on to inspire other Jokers over the years until the one that fell in a chemical vat due to the chase by Batman turns up.

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However, there is something in my mind that says this is just one Joker who went on to inspire other Jokers over the years until the one that fell in a chemical vat due to the chase by Batman turns up.


That would be Leto's Joker. Brilliant!

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Pffft... Negative Nancy.

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No. Read about it on Wikipedia to spare my eyes of the disturbing imagery and save $9 on a ticket.

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It's not as disturbing as a lot of people are making it out to be. Deadpool and Logan are more violent and graphic than this film.

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After 11 days, about 60 million people watched it.

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Why would it disrespect Ledger's Joker when this version has nothing to do with his?

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Fake? Hardly. Not any more(or less) fake than The Christopher Nolan Movies and Heath's Portrayal of Joker.
Edited to say the same goes for Jack Nicholson disrespecting Caesar Romano's Joker...Joaquin Isnt the first Joker and he won't be the last. But he certainly is a Joker.

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