MovieChat Forums > Cobra Kai (2018) Discussion > Kreese Might Be Right About Cobra Kai.

Kreese Might Be Right About Cobra Kai.

posted 4 years ago by Sandman81 (1501)
25 replies | jump to latest

Cobra Kai might be an all the way, or not at all kind of thing. Just like Myagi's grape analogy in first movie. Stay on either side of the road and you'll be safe. But if you stay in the middle, you'll get crushed. You can't have this tough, strike first, be the aggressor attitude, but then also show mercy to your opponent, and leave an opportunity for him to strike back.

Had Miguel either stayed out of the Sam/Tory fight, or just yanked Tory out of it, he would have been fine. Or if he had finished Robby by putting him to sleep, or pounding his face into the ground. But he tried to go down the middle, and ended up getting hurt.

[–] Artisan (3464) 4 years ago

I agree do the job all the way or do just enough to keep you safe. If you are going to commit than see it through.

[–] exatera (3942) 4 years ago

That's not Kreese's message, though.

[–] Artisan (3464) 4 years ago

I know it's not Krease's message but I was being a little more balanced about it. Krease is a bit of a failure given how he ended up anyway. And his lies.

[–] exatera (3942) 4 years ago

Had Miguel either stayed out of the Sam/Tory fight, or just yanked Tory out of it, he would have been fine. Or if he had finished Robby by putting him to sleep, or pounding his face into the ground. But he tried to go down the middle, and ended up getting hurt.

I don't think he needed to "finish" Robby. He only ended up getting hurt because Robby had no honor to speak of.

[–] Sandman81 (1501) 4 years ago

Exactly. Miguel got hurt because he was trying to do things the "New Cobra Kai" way, and showed his opponent mercy. Had he done things the traditional Cobra Kai way, he would have choked Robbie out, and left him unconscious on the ground. Instead he took the middle of the road way, and was seriously injured.

[–] exatera (3942) 4 years ago

Again, there is nothing bad about taking the high road. It doesn't demonstrate some kind of lack of commitment.

What Robby did after was inexcusable and I hope he goes to jail for it.

[–] ATG6 (3000) 4 years ago

He didn't try to kick Miguel over the railing, but he's responsible for it. Not a great look on your first day at a new school.

[–] Ldlamb (585) 4 years ago

He wouldnt go to jail for winning a fight he didn’t start.

[–] exatera (3942) 4 years ago

He threw a person over the railing not just accidentally as part of a fight, but already after the fight was over.

[–] CaldoTheKid (306) 4 years ago

The only way to win a fight is to show no mercy

[–] kuatorises (7467) 4 years ago

Kreese's messages isn't "stay out of the fight" or go all in, LOL. Kreese is all about aggression and would never tell Miguel to "not get involved". Kreese starts conflict when no conflicts exists and tells his students to do the same.

[–] Sandman81 (1501) 4 years ago

Kreese's message is "No Mercy". Johnny was trying to keep all of the other Cobra Kai mantra, but with "Some Mercy". Miguel tried to do it that way got hurt, whereas had he shown no mercy he would have walked away from that fight victorious.

If you're going to do things the Cobra Kai way, then you better go all the way with it, including not showing mercy. You can't pick and choose what parts you want to follow. That leaves you vulnerable.

[–] kuatorises (7467) 4 years ago

Your "rationale" is one of the dumbest things I've seen in a while. Miguel STARTED the brawl, but he's stupid for trying to end it? He should have "finished" Robby? LOL, I hope for your sake your actually joking. Miguel isn't in the hospital because he didn't finish Robby, he's in the hospital because he started a brawl.

[–] Sandman81 (1501) 4 years ago

Good thing I have you here to make my points for me.

What is Cobra Kai's mantra??? "Strike First. Strike Hard. No Mercy."

Miguel started the brawl. Striking First.

Miguel had Robby beat. Striking Hard.

Miguel shows mercy and releases Robby, allowing him the opportunity strike him in a way that severally injures him. Oops.

Cobra Kai is an all or nothing deal. Miguel tried to do 2/3, and suffered the consequences. Let me break this down in a way you might understand.

Option 1: Miguel doesn't get involved in Sam/Tory, or he helps Robby break it up. He doesn't get hurt because he chose the nothing route.

Option 2: He does start the brawl, but doesn't let Robbie up. Instead he finishes the fight, and walks away victorious. Expelled and probably going to Juvie, but victorious. This is the 100% Cobra Kai way.

Option 3: Starts the brawl, but shows mercy to Robbie, and gets injured for it. This is the middle of road way, and the worst possible choice.

[–] FootOfDavros (6720) 4 years ago

Not sure we can say Miguel "started" the brawl.

Robby pretty much had Tory up against a wall with his hand on her throat AND kicked another kid trying to help her out the way before Miguel "started" it by getting him off her!

[–] kuatorises (7467) 4 years ago

No, you're definitely wrong. Watch it again: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h7-8fp8x0NU. Robby's hand was not "on her throat". WRONG. The full thing from the beginning: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ynb8DtJ16_s. Robby was trying to break it up. No ifs, ands, or buts about that.

[–] FootOfDavros (6720) 4 years ago

Your first clip there is edited so yeah no hand on throat. The second clip is just fine though, watch from here (1 min 34 secs):-
https://youtu.be/ynb8DtJ16_s?t=1m34s

Robby slams her against the lockers, holding her, hand on throat, kicks off the first guy who tries to help her, then Miguel shouts "hey!" before going in himself.

It's just a very interesting perspective to say Miguel "started" the brawl given those circumstances. He's very clearly not even the first person to try and stop Robby from assaulting Tory...

[–] kuatorises (7467) 4 years ago

Ugh, you're one of THEM aren't you?

[–] FootOfDavros (6720) 4 years ago

I don't know who them are, so maybe I am, maybe I'm not 🤔

[–] avortac4 (3458) 3 years ago

"No Mercy" sounds cool and great..

..until you are in the receiving end of 'No Mercy'. Then you will realize the value of mercy, but it might be too late.

[–] Artisan (3464) 4 years ago

I think his key mistake here was assuming Robby would stay down and turning his back on him. He should have known that it wasn't a smart thing to do.

[–] kenburke (2280) 4 years ago

When you take away a cobra's fangs you create a worm.

[–] daveyh (583) 4 years ago

just to expand on Artisan's comment, when Johnny was talking about the "new cobrai kai", he talked a lot about nuance, and how there's a time to show mercy. Short of talking the students through every single possible scenario, though, it was very much a judgement call as to when to show mercy.
Unfortunately, Miguel exercised poor judgement. (1) Robbie was a skilled fighter who still posed a threat, (2) he would have been mad on adrenaline from the fight and the humiliation of being pinned like that, (3) he had previous beef with Miguel, including his cheap shots on his already injured shoulder at the tournament only a few months earlier, and the whole Samantha love triangle.
Keeping Robbie pinned until the police/teachers/whoever came to restrain him might have been a way of showing mercy without the repercussions that happened.
Incidentally, wasn't Robbie supposed to rest the shoulder for the entire summer after the tournament? That was soon forgotten.

[–] Colorado_Kid (209) 4 years ago

I didn't see it as showing mercy as the Cobra Kai not knowing defense.

Miguel vs Robby - Robby is lying face down while Miguel is standing there like the fight is over then Robby is still able to get a jump on him. Terrible defense on Miguel's part.

Mitch vs Chris - Mitch had Chris down face first on the ground like the fight is over and then just stands there as Chris takes a text book gets up and slams it into Mitch's face sending him into the lockers. Terrible defense on Mitch's part.

Hawk vs Dimitri - Hawk threw punch after punch at Dimitri and Dimitri blocked every last one of them. Dimitri then threw a kick at Hawk and Hawk just stood there and did nothing which resulted in him flying into the trophy case. Terrible defense on Hawk's part.

Tory vs Sam - Tory just went crazy throwing all kinds of offense and Sam fought her off at every turn. Even when Tory had Sam down and was going to show her no mercy Sam blocked her punch and ended up defeating Tory. Terrific defense on Sam's part.

[–] daveyh (583) 4 years ago

Interesting. And maybe it comes from the "strike first" motto - they're never taught defence.
In fact, when Miguel finally goes back to training after what happened at the halloween party, Johnny talks about needing more defence, then tells him the best defence is an even stronger offence or something to that effect.
That said, the next fight (the cafeteria), Miguel waits for Kyler to throw the first punch before brilliantly blocking it and striking back.