Awful idea


Watchmen was a succinct, perfect story when told by Moore and Gibbons. It needed no prequels (the comics DC did awhile ago) and needs no sequels or spinoffs, either. This feels cheap and tawdry.

The tagline "nothing ever ends" sounds more like a threat or an ill omen than a promise of fun and or intrigue. It reminds me of "nobody's ever really gone". The wearying thought of these superhero, Star Wars, or Watchmen-ripoff soap operas just endlessly plodding along in an imaginative desert in search of a good story is so soul-blasting.

I know that they do this for the money, but I wish they'd have the revelation that they have enough money. Do something worthwhile for art. Not this gutted insanity.

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I have the perfect solution. Don't watch it; in fact, pretend it doesn't exist. Solved!!!

Wait! WAIT!!! Before you put fingers to keyboard, rest assured there is NO snark in my reply. I am being COMPLETELY serious, not jabbing at you at all. I'm absolutely serious. . .if this concept seems like an ill-conceived money grab, the simplest solution for you is going to be the best. The good thing is, you never have to think about it again. The bad: you may miss out on a potentially really good show.

The concept of "needed" art is so pervasive and so wrong at its core that it's difficult to address, but briefly: *No* art is "needed." Likewise, *all* art is "needed." Again, these are sufficiently elementary concepts that they don't need to be belabored. . .though, clearly, they need stating, from time to time.

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I agree generally.

Your advice was pre-taken: I haven't read those comics, I will not be watching this show. These are studio-driven cash-grabs that spit in the face of Watchmen.

I will take some humility time here to admit that there are ideas that I would have thought were dumb and been proven wrong later. Best example? A musical of Les Miserables. If I had been pitched that idea, I would definitely have passed on it, and it is a top-quality musical. Most of the time, though, some of this quality level stuff is predictable.

Again: I generally agree with your philosophy about art being simultaneously needed and not-needed on a piece-by-piece basis. But I would say that there are details that make this tricky.

One: I think there's a big difference between a board of executives forming committees and coming up with an idea (which this TV show stinks of) and an artist generating and idea and fighting to see it made (the original comic book). I acknowledge that mainstream stuff is always a blend of the two (the committee has to, ultimately, hire artists to make it happen, the artist has to go through a committee to see his or her vision realised).

Two: While not a "rule" per se, there is something distasteful about using a creator's vision so nakedly. Sometimes defiance like this turns out well (One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest), but it feels really bad when executives exploit an artist's work for money, and it feels even worse when they do so in ways the original artist would hate.

Three: I think most people feel a sting when something tremendous and transcendent is used cheaply. Most people have had something they love or loved be given the moolah treatment and it feels feels like the thing you loved has been tainted or tarnished. That's a bad feeling. And when it happens, I think people come to places like this to rail against it for catharsis.

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Well done, as always, Goliard. I’d like to add a couple points to yours. I don’t know of any artist who ever looked around at the world, thought “I don’t see enough art around here. I’m gonna make me some art,” then set to work and actually created even good art, let alone art for the ages. Art results from a combination of motive, inspiration, need to express oneself, craftspersonship and talent. Is grabbing for cash a barrier to making art? Shakespeare wrote his plays because he wanted to sell tickets! It was just a happenstance that he also knew how to write stories that are very popular, and had a gift for language. Some very crass and nasty people have created great art.

My other point is that I’ve never seen an HBO project that was a grab for cash. HBO’s income derives from its subscription sales and its various series’ seasonal box sets sales. HBO financial success is based on consistent high quality programming, not on breathless pursuit of the flavor of the nanosecond. I certainly don’t like every single HBO program, but I’ve never seen nor heard of one that made me think, “How can they sink so low?”

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Yeah, it doesn't sound like it's going to work at all.

https://www.polygon.com/tv/2019/10/17/20917919/watchmen-hbo-review-alan-moore-comic-book-changes

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/17/arts/television/watchmen-review.html

The fan base for it isn't that huge in the first place. Then you don't do the original story, but instead advance it 30 years into the future, so whatever fans you do have probably get annoyed.

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Problem I see is that DC Comics is right now in the process of reinventing this storyline (Doomsday Clock). So this won't work with any of the existing continuity

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Doomsday Clock is my favorite (and most frustrating) comic read right now. That said; it's clear this series has nothing to do with what DC is printing. It's its own thing, much like the other DC movie properties have nothing to do with the books being published.

Bottom line: continuity with the (ever-changing) DC Comics status quo is NEVER a consideration, with filmed products.

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Well, as a big fan of Watchmen the movie, I for one was really looking forward to the series. I don't think there can possibly be enough Watchmen.

If you are not a fan, then, as someone already said above, don't watch.

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I'm a huge fan of Watchmen, and I thought the movie was good, but flawed. I think it's because I'm such a fan of Watchmen that people tinkering with it rankles me.

You better believe I won't be watching it.

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I think you'll be missing out, but obviously that is your prerogative. :)


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I just watched the premiere and am checking in here to see the concensus, which is somewhat lacking. SPOILERS I was pretty sure Don Johnson was not going to survive the first ep. Goodness! Louis Gosset Jr. is so old! I do not believe that Regina King in reality can beat up anything other than an Omelette. I didn’t enjoy the movie and don’t recall much of it, but didn’t think it was about a Race War, which the show seems to be. Also, that asshole Nixon cannot be vilified too much. What a disgrace to the US. The imagery, music and production values were all very good, or better. I’m not as immediately invested as I was with Game of Thrones, Banshee, Big Little Lies or Counterpart, but I’ll keep watching.

I could not possibly care less how congruent this show is with the comic books.

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Two people watched it, thanks. It has an good imdb score.
Metascore is 85, but user reviews are split between 0 and 10.
https://www.metacritic.com/tv/watchmen-2019/season-1

I'll wait for more imdb reviews before watching.

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Well, I personally don't rate anything on IMDB until at least season 1 is over.

Also, the negative reviews there seem to be on the stupid side.


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[–] exatera (2082) 22 days ago
Well, I personally don't rate anything on IMDB until at least season 1 is over.
Seeing as how the HBO release strategy is not set-up for Binge watching the ability to rate individual episodes actually works better than rating the entire series as one.

Both Rottentomatoes and IMDB both allow you to rate individual episodes and I have been doing that since I had an account on both for years. Notwithstanding review bombing on both I still think they provide a barometer of the public.

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I could not possibly care less how congruent this show is with the comic books.
After episode 3 of 9 it is difficult to tell how much story is yet to unfold but what has transpired so far is intriguing, funny, dense with world building and rich in expanding the narrative of existing characters as well as new characters.

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