I've always thought that The Empire Strikes Back would have been a much better movie if they had killed Luke right away on Hoth in the opening minutes... said no one ever.
Yeah, totally disagree with you.
John Connor's presence was what made the first two movies work. In the first one we only see a glimpse of him, but Kyle Reese's admiration and loyalty to him was the driving force behind his determination to overcome his opponent. Reese's death was so hard because you understood Connor's sacrifice even if he wasn't present.
The heart and soul of T2 was the three way relationship between Sarah, John and the T800.
This line from the movie said it all:
"Watching John with the machine, it was suddenly so clear. The terminator, would never stop. It would never leave him, and it would never hurt him, never shout at him, or get drunk and hit him, or say it was too busy to spend time with him. It would always be there. And it would die, to protect him. Of all the would-be fathers who came and went over the years, this thing, this machine, was the only one who measured up. In an insane world, it was the sanest choice."
If it wasn't for that three way relationship T2 would be only remembered like a Michael Bay movie... you enjoy all the 'sposions' while you're watching it, but forget it within 48 hours.
When I read that they killed off Connor within the first few minutes of the movie I lost all interest in seeing it. If they were determined to kill off the character, they should have given his death some meaning. I think fans might have accepted that.
Stupid call on Miller's part. My guess is he was a bit full of himself, and decided he was going to do it this way to fully separate himself from Cameron's story. A kind of F U to Cameron...
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[deleted]
4 years ago
Ironically, you're own reply contains the answer to what they could have done with the character. As you mentioned, Connor starts off T2 as an annoying teen who really doesn't want to assume responsibility for his eventual fate.
In this movie, we should have seen Connor's evolution into the battle-hardened vet that we see in T1 and T: Salvation.
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bozo_500 (12149)
4 years ago
John Conner wasn't in T1 at all not even a glimpse.
it was Cameron idea to kill off JC as he said in an interview few days ago.
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[deleted]
4 years ago
My bad... yes, he physically doesn't appear as an older man til T2. My original point still stands.
I've read articles attributing the idea to both Miller and Cameron. Miller has said that he figured Connor's character was done since he was no longer humanity's savior. The events of T2 meant that Skynet never comes into existance. Audiences wouldn't want to see him as (paraphrasing as best I remember) an accountant or something else so mundane.
Miller's explanation is illogical. If T2 changed events so that Skynet no longer existed (Miller's explanation, not mine) in the future why were T-800s still arriving? Who was sending them? (I haven't seen the movie, this is the argument put forth by some on line reviews).
Plus, who sez Connor has to live out an ordinary life? Considering what he's gone through and where he came from, I don't see that happening at all. He could never be 100% sure that Skynet wouldn't become a fact and would likely become a trained warrior just as his mother did to stay ever on guard. The fact that Miller couldn't envision a way to use Connor says a lot about his lack of imagination and understanding of these characters.
There were reports that the two butted heads about the story. My guess is that Connor's death was the result of Miller's insistence for my reasons above, and that Cameron agreed... either begrudgingly, or because the studio over rode him. (If it truly was Cameron's idea then he has completely lost his bona fides as the creative force behind this series...)
It's all speculation on my part. Whoever came up with the idea as filmed... it was dumb and likely cost them fans.
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bozo_500 (12149)
4 years ago
the DF T800 was sent back by skynet b4 it was destroyed.
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[deleted]
4 years ago
Miller's quote:
“Sarah changed the past, which changed the future. So that future where John was the leader of humanity no longer happens. He’s just this man who has missed his moment in history. What are you going to do? Is he going to be an accountant? Is he going to be working in a bank?
“Any of those is unsatisfying when his real destiny was to be this super soldier who leads humanity. So all those reasons led us to do what we did.”
It wasn't destroyed. It never came into existence as that future was successfully erased by the events at the end of T2. So where are the T800s coming from that arrive to kill John Connor?
More explanation here...
https://www.digitalspy.com/movies/a29736143/terminator-dark-fate-franchise-plot-hole/
It would have to so since the new Terminator model comes from a different AI that arises in the new timeline they are on. You can't logically have one now deleted timeline intersecting with the actual timeline.
I'm not an expert in the Hollywood Rules of Time Travel though.
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10200 (656)
4 years ago
Well this is what happens when you have poor writing and people trying to change an already convoluted time line. Talk about the consequences of someone's actions - nobody really thought this out or they would have realized their "logic" was full of holes. They made this movie for everyone except Terminator fans and therein lies the problem.
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