Did they have to? - Creed II (2018) Discussion

That was an awesome flip flop! Seriously. I was expecting you to be one of those new progressive fascist “ban and censor everything” type of people. You’re alright in my book!

Sorry if I was quick to judge, but it seems like these people out to censor everything are all over the place now. It’s frustrating how much they believe in censoring and banning things THEY find offensive, which is everything.

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[–] MovieChatUser497 (18943) 4 years ago

Exactly and if we start censoring things we don't like then eventually things we do like will be censored and pretty soon the spirit of free speech will be out the window.

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[–] sut6432 (2830) 4 years ago

Right on! Exactly!

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[–] janelsenor (2042) 5 years ago

He says it in the first Creed too.

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[–] President4Life (280) 5 years ago

Dude, obviously, you're not from the hood/streets and you're not Black.

Let me just keep it real for you.

If you're a cat from the streets like Adonis, that's how you talk.

Rocky/Creed is about people from low class environments.

This isn't the Cosby show.

A guy like Adonis who was in juvie and foster care is gonna say "nigga" when talking to his homies.

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[–] JimStahl (22) 5 years ago

So he's simple. He's my neighbor. He's that lazy piece of crap in apartment H4 who blasts rap music at 1 am on a Thursday. Rocky was poor. Rocky was uneducated. We got that story already. But Adonis had a mother with affluence who cared for him. There's no chance he was that "street". Michael Jordan had a real opportunity to bring something new to the franchise and he squandered it because he just wanted to play himself. He didn't want to act at all. Lazy.

And he said nigger with a hard r.

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[–] President4Life (280) 5 years ago

Adonis had a crackhead mother who couldn't take care of him and his others siblings, and put him in foster care and he was in juvenile hall when Mary Ann Creed (his dead father's wife) adopted him at 13.

If you actually watched the first movie, you'd know she got him out of SOLITARY CONFINEMENT because even though he was the product of her husband's affair, he was Apollo's son, and she didn't want him to die in jail or the streets.

You are just a racist, who once again, associates anybody who listens to a certain type of music, or talks and acts a certain way as a "lazy piece of crap".

And no Michael Jordan isn't playing himself. He actually came from a 2 parent household with a good strong father.

He's playing a character who is torn between 2 worlds. The world of the streets of L.A. where he grew up and the life that his step mother Mary Ann afforded him after she got him out of juvie.

Do you people even watch movies? Jesus.

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[–] JimStahl (22) 5 years ago

You're not street if you were taken in by a kind, affluent woman at the age of 13. Conflict that lives that far behind a man just isn't legitimate. I don't doubt that Stallone was TRYING to say there's conflict, but that is a tired cliché written specifically for Michael Jordan because he plays the archetype so well. In Rocky, Stallone played a street thug who didn't curse and didn't have the nerve to break Bob's thumb for failing to pay Mr. Gazzo his $200. And, wait for it, Rocky had NO EDUCATION. Therein was HIS CONFLICT; he was angry that he was "a bum". And that was why we loved him, because he tried so hard to not be a bum. He was just too dumb to succeed. When Apollo gave him his chance, we rooted for him. Adonis is not a bum. He is not underprivileged. He's a paid athlete. And he could have been an iconic role model like Rocky, but then he opened his mouth.

His race is irrelevant.

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[–] President4Life (280) 5 years ago

So him being raised by a crackhead in the ghetto with his other siblings and ending up in solitary confinement in juvenile hall means nothing because his father's wife adopted him at 13?

That's ridiculous logic.

With that logic, nothing that happens to any of us from the ages of 0-13 matters.

Life just begins as a teenager?

The guys from the streets. I knew people who were stealing cars in middle school. Those are street kids, even if some magical figure had plucked them out at that time.

You're the one who brought rap music into this.

Don't think I don't know what that signifies.

And again, Michael Jordan isn't playing himself or an archetype. He's playing a guy trapped between the world he grew up for 80% of his childhood and his post Mary Ann life of privilege.

If you think you could just take kids from the ghetto at 13, who been committing crimes all their lives and then put them in the suburbs and they're going to be perfect little angels, you're wrong.

And like I said, Adonis isn't a drug dealer or a pimp or a gangster. He's not a stereotype. He's got some hood mentality because that's where he grew up, but he's also smart and was working as an investment banker before the boxing itch got into him. That's not stereotypical.

He loves his girlfriend (now fiancee & mother of his child). He loves Rocky and just wants to make his own name in the world, while paying tribute to the father he never knew.

Don't let the fact that he has a little attitude fool you into thinking he's a bad guy.

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[–] JimStahl (22) 5 years ago

Correct; him being ghetto as a kid means nothing. I was a ghetto kid too (plot twist). Like me, he's a grown-up now. He has the intelligent option to simply throw nigger out of his vocabulary. He can know the word, but he doesn't need to use it so freely just because his culture appropriated it. Taking the word from its venomous roots and turning it into the casual equivalent of "homie" (which he also says when he's NOT ANGRY, so revealing) doesn't make it so. You know damn well it's a hate word and you know damn well everyone else knows it too, because black history month. When people say it, it's always a thinly veiled, hostile commentary. Even Rocky, with his relaxed brain would know this. Especially so, given his background. So Adonis has no excuse. He's just being thug. I can't be inspired by his courage if it's expressed as enmity. Would it have been acceptable to you if Adonis said "Tony, don't call this shit"? Or better still, "Tony, don't call it"? Can we not be inspired by THAT? I think Adonis would rather we fear him because he barked nigger at his own teammate.

I used to listen to rap, when it was about, well, rapping. When it was about dancing and picking up girls. But it's so aggressive now. It celebrates hostility. THAT'S why I don't like it. Certainly not at 1 in the morning.

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[–] President4Life (280) 5 years ago

LMAO, I'm sure you're real "ghetto" buddy.

That's why you're calling a guy who's a good father, fiance, and friend who takes care of Rocky financially a thug because he uses a word that 90% of Black people use the way we want to use it.

GTFOH.

You're not Black. You never have been.

You never will be.

You don't get to tell us what words we can and cannot use to describe our experience in this racist ass country.

You're not concerned about the Black community.

You're not fighting police brutality or poverty in our communities.

You're not fighting the prison complex or against housing or employment discrimination.

You're a Fox News watcher who feigns concern for the Black community while locking your car door when you see a young Black kid walking by.

Stop pretending that you're anything other than a classist and probably a racist, mad that the "Rocky" series no longer belongs to White people born in the 1940s, but diverse audiences born in the 1980s and '90s

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[–] JimStahl (22) 5 years ago

"he uses a word that 90% of Black people use the way we want to use it". Thanks for that bit of gold. By the way, why did you capitalize black? Why did you even make this a black issue? And are you suggesting that "diverse audiences", who I take you to mean non white people, took Rocky from "white people"? Not once, but twice in just your last post, you made this a black VERSUS white issue. And you're calling ME a racist. If Adonis called his cornerman nigger simply because he's black, then I am truly ashamed of Stallone. But still moreso in Jordan for not standing up against the stereotype and saying "Hey, Sly, can we talk about this line here?"

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[–] President4Life (280) 5 years ago

LMAO, yeah you care so much about the plight of Black people.

Again, the word is true to the kid from juvie that Adonis grew up, just like it is when 50 Cent, Jay-Z, or Kanye West use it because they come from the same environments. You don't come from that environment, so it's not up to you to decide who gets to use what words.

We don't need people like you to police what language we use amongst each other.

You can go back to watching Fox News and pretending to care about making america great again for only one group of people

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[–] MovieChatUser497 (18943) 4 years ago

I'm sure that is how they talk, that doesn't mean that it's classy or showing even the basic minimum amount of respect for yourself or the people around you.

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[–] President4Life (280) 4 years ago

Nobody said that it was.

Just that it fits the character of Adonis Creed who was from the ghetto and went from a juvenile delinquent into a boxer

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[–] Lord Rake (3754) 5 years ago

I thought Mickey said it once in the first film when he was talking about the man who put a nail in his boxing glove.

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[–] JimStahl (22) 5 years ago

He said "son of a bitch".

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[–] Lord Rake (3754) 5 years ago

Oh, well then I think it was a shame they decided to start using that slang garbage in this film. Especially since Apollo was such a great role model, it seems like a term that should also be beneath his son.

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[–] janelsenor (2042) 5 years ago

He said it in the first movie too as a kid.

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[–] MaximRecoil (4044) 4 years ago

Mickey called Rocky a "dumb dago" in the first Rocky movie, the bartender called Apollo a "jig clown" ("jig" being short for "jigaboo"), and Paulie made racist comments in Rocky III ("I don't like these people").

I don't care if characters express racism in movies; I'm only concerned with whether they are entertaining or not. Mickey and Paulie were awesome characters; entertaining and often funny; while Adonis Creed fluctuates back and forth between boring and annoying. The only good characters in the Creed movies so far are Rocky and Ivan Drago, both of which originated in much better movies.

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[–] JimStahl (22) 4 years ago

After years of exposure to the conversations of the worst people in the world, I am qualified to say that people who use the word nigger use it profusely and casually. It doesn't slip out just once in a while when they're under stress. It occurs in nearly every sentence. Typically, more than once. It's a noun, a pronoun, an adjective, a title, a slur, and an expletive. It even serves as filler, like an um or an er. Ignorant people use language this lazily because they want to impress their equally ignorant peers. They want to demonstrate that they're not guileless or judgmental, because these traits are weak and offensive, respectively. Rather than show some bravery and strive to grow intellectually, they take the path of least resistance, which is to belong. To belong among the ignorant. I'm inexpressibly disappointed when I hear youth talk like this because I know that their parents are not training them to act like grownups. They're not training them to pull up their pants and speak in a manner that builds charisma. These kids are going to grow up to be idiots and criminals. They're going to live in ghettos and spread diseases and, if they're very lucky, cut a platinum rap album.

Nigger is a stupid word. Please, anyone out there who is a screenwriter, don't try to make your story gritty or realistic by adding trite, dumbed down dialogue.

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