I'd like to think that if there is a Jesus, and he *can* help people, he's too busy helping starving children or tortured people or something and can't be bothered helping a middle class couple win a game.
How many starving babies died so he could take time out to help those two twits get to Day 18?
> I'd like to think that if there is a Jesus, and he *can* help people, he's too busy helping starving children or tortured people or something and can't be bothered helping a middle class couple win a game.
God and Jesus don't seem to really care about anything. Those babies wouldn't be tortured in the first place if God actually cared about them (he knows the future and could have stopped it). Likewise, he doesn't care about who wins what football game or that you are safe when running from the hunters.
> How many starving babies died so he could take time out to help those two twits get to Day 18?
In theory, God is everywhere at all times and is unbound by time itself. He could help the starving babies and the Florida couple at the same time.
The problem is that he doesn't care.
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What Would Jesus Do For A Klondike Bar (WWJDFAKB)?
God and Jesus love everyone with a perfect and eternal love. God cares about each person the same way that a good father cares about his child. He wants them to be happy and he wants them to grow and he wants them to turn out well. He cares about the starving babies and he cares about the Florida couple and he cares about what the starving babies and the Florida couple care about. A reality competition would probably not be too high on his priority list on his own, but like a father who goes to a baseball game for his kid, if it was really important to the Florida couple, he would have cared enough to answer their prayers. He cares about what is important to you.
And who's to say he didn't help them? We don't know. We just know they didn't win. But because God knows everything, and because he loves all of the competitors and all of the hunters too, and knows what they really truly need, maybe the Florida couple winning Hunted wasn't actually the best thing for them. Maybe that was meant for someone else.
And you have to also take into account that God would never take away another person's free agency or choice. If God forced people to be good so that there were no starving babies, no person would ever get the chance to grow into a legitimately good person. There are some things that you have to learn for yourself. Sometimes that means that people suffer because of other people's actions. But in those cases, God always comforts the people who go to him for comfort, and he'll make it better for them one day in ways that you cannot even imagine. The more grief a person endures, the more love they will receive if they continue to have faith.
> God cares about each person the same way that a good father cares about his child.
Except that God kills millions of children every day. A good father would not do that. Do you actually know any fathers that kill their children because they care about them?
> if it was really important to the Florida couple, he would have cared enough to answer their prayers. He cares about what is important to you.
How can you tell that? What is the measure of whether you care enough about something for God to grant your wishes?
> But because God knows everything, and because he loves all of the competitors and all of the hunters too, and knows what they really truly need, maybe the Florida couple winning Hunted wasn't actually the best thing for them.
That sounds like a bit of a cop out. If you succeed, God meant it to be. If you fail and die, God meant it to be. If nothing particular happens, God meant it to be that way. You are conveniently defining everything that happens or doesn't happen to be absolute proof of God's perfect existence. And that just confirms to you that you were right all along.
I mean, it's easy to win the game when you redefine all the rules so that every move is always a win for you.
> And you have to also take into account that God would never take away another person's free agency or choice.
Yet, earlier, you said that God knows everything. And that must include the future. If so, he knows what you will do all the time. Therefore, you do not have free choice in your life. What you will do in any situation is already known to God and he controls everything. You have no freedom.
> But in those cases, God always comforts the people who go to him for comfort, and he'll make it better for them one day in ways that you cannot even imagine.
And that's the problem. God seems to do everything in ways man can't imagine or predict or verify. God's actions are indistinguishable from pure randomness.
If God kills Bob's baby, God may comfort Bob by making his wife pregnant with a replacement child.
But, if God kills Ted's child, God may go ahead and kill Ted's wife as well. Or, if God kills Vince's baby, God might send a rainbow to comfort him. Or maybe attack Vince with a shark. Or any number of other completely random things.
You seem to see each thing as proof of God's will because you defined your world that way. I see them as random and unconnected events.
Can you prove that God's will is different than pure randomness?
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What Would Jesus Do For A Klondike Bar (WWJDFAKB)?
>Except that God kills millions of children every day. A good father would not do that. Do you actually know any fathers that kill their children because they care about them?
God does not kill millions of children every day. Every person on earth has to die at some point because this period is not meant to last forever, and some people die earlier than others, but God does not kill millions of children every day. Sometimes miracles will happen to save a child, and sometimes they won't, but that all depends on the individual child and the individual circumstances. Some souls need less time on earth than others. If a child dies before the age of accountability, then I believe they are saved automatically, and in some cases it can be a great mercy. We just can't see everything with our limited perspective. But God can.
>How can you tell that? What is the measure of whether you care enough about something for God to grant your wishes?
If you pray about it. God answers every single prayer. It may not always be the answer you want, and sometimes it may take more or less time than you expect, but in my personal experience, he always answers. You seem to have a lot of hatred and bitterness towards God, but like with anyone, if you truly get to know them, your hatred would lift and you'd find peace. If you pray to him with a sincere heart, and are willing to open yourself up, I think you'll find your answers to a lot of questions. He loves you too.
>That sounds like a bit of a cop out. If you succeed, God meant it to be. If you fail and die, God meant it to be. If nothing particular happens, God meant it to be that way. You are conveniently defining everything that happens or doesn't happen to be absolute proof of God's perfect existence. And that just confirms to you that you were right all along.
>I mean, it's easy to win the game when you redefine all the rules so that every move is always a win for you.
God knows everything that will happen. He knows everything that will happen to you, and he will help you to grow however he can because he wants you to succeed in this life. He wants you to be happy. This life isn't a game to him. Whether God wanted something to happen or not, he knows whether it will and he knows the effect and the consequences that thing will have throughout the rest of humanity's time on earth.
>Yet, earlier, you said that God knows everything. And that must include the future. If so, he knows what you will do all the time. Therefore, you do not have free choice in your life. What you will do in any situation is already known to God and he controls everything. You have no freedom.
I used to ask myself 'If God knows everything that will happen in your life and whether you'll succeed or fail, what is the point in putting you through it?' which I think is sort of related to this question. The answer that I've found through scripture study, pondering, and personal revelation is that this life isn't for God, this life is for you. God could know how you'd do in a certain scenario, but you're not actually going to learn from that scenario unless you experience it yourself. You're not going to grow as a person unless you actually live that life and make those choices, even though God knows what choices you're going to make. You may know a tulip bulb will grow into a tulip, but you won't have the tulip and the tulip will just remain a bulb unless you plant and water the bulb and go through the process anyway. God does not control everything. He created people, and he created them to have choice. He created the world and everything in it, but he did not choose everything that happened. He just knows what will. He can intercede and he can affect things, and he will if you ask, but you make your own choices. You are in control of what you do with your life.
>Can you prove that God's will is different than pure randomness?
In my own life, I see that God's will is not pure randomness in the stories and the accounts of individual people. God has never attacked anyone with a shark. And like I said before, God does not kill babies or wives. But I think if you really got to know Ted and you got to know Bob, and you got to know the people that Ted and Bob affect, you'd see evidence that it isn't random, why they led the lives they led. I hear people talk about their trials and how those trials have influenced their lives, and I've experienced trials in my own life, and when I gain perspective on them, it helps me see what God is doing. There are small ways that God shows me that he loves me every day. He does not cause my trials, but when they occur, he helps me through them. He's there for me, and if you let him, I know that he'd be there for you too. You're never alone, and whether you love him back or whether you blame him for the things that you feel are wrong, he'll always love you. He'll be happy for your successes and he'll cry with you at your failures.
I do not know if I explained any of this perfectly, because I am not a perfect person, but these are some of the things I've learned about God throughout my life. And whatever you may feel, I'd like to thank you for giving me the opportunity to share them. I love God with my whole heart and I'm very grateful to him.
> Every person on earth has to die at some point because this period is not meant to last forever, and some people die earlier than others, but God does not kill millions of children every day.
Yet, despite you saying that and believing that, millions of children do die every day and, since you have defined everything that happens as God's will, it is purely God's decision. Therefore, God does kill millions of children every day. Just saying that it is not so does not negate the fact that it is clearly happening.
> We just can't see everything with our limited perspective. But God can.
Interesting. How do you know that what God is doing is actually good? Since you cannot possibly begin to understand God or his motives, how do you know that he is good and not evil? Maybe humans are supposed to live for thousands of years and God is just being mean and torturing and killing people way before their time. You cannot know that, since you do NOT know more than God.
> If you pray about it. God answers every single prayer. It may not always be the answer you want, and sometimes it may take more or less time than you expect, but in my personal experience, he always answers.
Again, how can you tell the difference between God's work and pure randomness, especially when you admit that God doesn't do what you expect or ask for. If I pray for my aunt to be cured and a flower blooms instead and she dies, how do I know God did this for some mysterious reason, as opposed to the flower just being random?
> You seem to have a lot of hatred and bitterness towards God, but like with anyone, if you truly get to know them, your hatred would lift and you'd find peace.
I don't hate God. Why would anybody? If he was real and did good things, everyone would love him. But, I am a scientist and I need to see real, solid evidence of something before I believe in it. Until proof is offered, I cannot believe in God.
Note that I am not denying God's existence, since it could be possible that some magical invisible being controls everything. I am just waiting for proof.
I am, however, frustrated with people who do not insist on proof before they jump into something with both feet. The use revisionist thinking to retroactively twist everything that they see and hear into proof of what they want to believe. That is just not logical or rational.
And it is further frustrating because these people are actively looking to make everything fit into what they want to believe. Any logical debate opposing their views simply makes them believe more than ever that they are on the right track.
Do you believe in UFOs? If not, how would you go about convincing a true believer of UFOs that they are mistaken and must provide proof before anyone would also believe?
> God knows everything that will happen. He knows everything that will happen to you, and he will help you to grow however he can because he wants you to succeed in this life. He wants you to be happy.
Once again, I will ask how you know this to be true. Simply repeating the same statement over and over does not make it true. You keep saying that God wants the best for us and that his actions cannot be understood by humans. But, you never say how you know this to be true. It appears to me that this is just a deeply held wish of yours rather than any kind of fact.
You wish and hope that God does whatever is best for us all the time, but you don't really know that it is true. It is not a fact.
> God could know how you'd do in a certain scenario, but you're not actually going to learn from that scenario unless you experience it yourself. You're not going to grow as a person unless you actually live that life and make those choices, even though God knows what choices you're going to make.
That is a good philosophy for life. But, I would contend that tens of millions of people do that already without any help or direction from God. Living life and growing as a person is great. No God is needed.
> In my own life, I see that God's will is not pure randomness in the stories and the accounts of individual people.
Can you provide a little more detail? It seems to me that, in order to make such a statement, you would have to actually know God's will. Without that, it would be impossible to separate his actions from randomness. And you and I have already agreed that humans cannot know God's will or God's way of doing things.
> I hear people talk about their trials and how those trials have influenced their lives, and I've experienced trials in my own life, and when I gain perspective on them, it helps me see what God is doing.
Yet, you cannot know whether these experiences are due to God's work or due to that person just being a good person or a lucky person.
> There are small ways that God shows me that he loves me every day. He does not cause my trials, but when they occur, he helps me through them.
Well, God controls everything, so, yes, he did cause your daily trials. The Bible even describes cases where God purposely makes life difficult for humans just to test them.
And, I would contend that God is not helping you through the trials in your life, but it is your belief in a God that helps you through them. You very much want there to be some rhyme and reason to the things that happen around you. By believing in an all-powerful and all-knowing God, you have the comfort of knowing that there is a purpose in all this, even if you have no chance at all of ever knowing what that purpose is.
> He's there for me, and if you let him, I know that he'd be there for you too.
That would be nice.
> I do not know if I explained any of this perfectly, because I am not a perfect person, but these are some of the things I've learned about God throughout my life.
You have explained what you believe very well.
The thing is that you are trying to explain something that can't be explained. You seem to believe that God is so many levels above humans that we cannot possibly understand whatever he is doing or why. And the things he does are so not-understandable that they are indistinguishable from randomness. That's going to be a tough sell to anyone.
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What Would Jesus Do For A Klondike Bar (WWJDFAKB)?
He's not helping anybody so your point is moot. Witness all the suffering in the World around you even an unbrainwashed 5 year old can see that.
shareRight over both of your heads. Way to miss the point.
shareWe already know the new series follows nine teams of two who must go on the run and evade capture for 28 days, but just what else is involved?share
These are the rules of the hunt:
1.Fugitives must stay within a 100,000-square mile hunt zone.
2.Fugitives will be given a one-hour head start before Hunters are alerted.
3.Fugitives are provided limited funds.
4.Command Center is given only a name, photo, and last known location.
5.Fugitives that evade capture win $250,000 per team.
6. Jesus or any other Gods/deities are not allowed to help you despite your pleas of prayers.
We already know the new series follows nine teams of two who must go on the run and evade capture for 28 days, but just what else is involved?
These are the rules of the hunt:
1.Fugitives must stay within a 100,000-square mile hunt zone.
2.Fugitives will be given a one-hour head start before Hunters are alerted.
3.Fugitives are provided limited funds.
4.Command Center is given only a name, photo, and last known location.
5.Fugitives that evade capture win $250,000 per team.
6. Jesus or any other Gods/deities are not allowed to help you despite your pleas of prayers.
I always look to George Carlin for guidance on matters like this.
http://www.rense.com/general69/obj.htm
When it comes to *beep* big-time, major league *beep* you have to stand in awe of the all-time champion of false promises and exaggerated claims, religion. No contest. No contest. Religion. Religion easily has the greatest *beep* story ever told. Think about it. Religion has actually convinced people that there's an invisible man living in the sky who watches everything you do, every minute of every day. And the invisible man has a special list of ten things he does not want you to do. And if you do any of these ten things, he has a special place, full of fire and smoke and burning and torture and anguish, where he will send you to live and suffer and burn and choke and scream and cry forever and ever 'til the end of time!
But He loves you. He loves you, and He needs money! He always needs money! He's all-powerful, all-perfect, all-knowing, and all-wise, somehow just can't handle money! Religion takes in billions of dollars, they pay no taxes, and they always need a little more. Now, you talk about a good *beep* story. Holy *beep*
But I want you to know something, this is sincere, I want you to know, when it comes to believing in God, I really tried. I really, really tried. I tried to believe that there is a God, who created each of us in His own image and likeness, loves us very much, and keeps a close eye on things. I really tried to believe that, but I gotta tell you, the longer you live, the more you look around, the more you realize, something is *beep* up.
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed. Results like these do not belong on the résumé of a Supreme Being. This is the kind of *beep* you'd expect from an office temp with a bad attitude. And just between you and me, in any decently-run universe, this guy would've been out on his all-powerful ass a long time ago. And by the way, I say "this guy", because I firmly believe, looking at these results, that if there is a God, it has to be a man.
No woman could or would ever *beep* things up like this. So, if there is a God, I think most reasonable people might agree that he's at least incompetent, and maybe, just maybe, doesn't give a *beep* Doesn't give a *beep* which I admire in a person, and which would explain a lot of these bad results.
So rather than be just another mindless religious robot, mindlessly and aimlessly and blindly believing that all of this is in the hands of some spooky incompetent father figure who doesn't give a *beep* I decided to look around for something else to worship. Something I could really count on.
And immediately, I thought of the sun. Happened like that. Overnight I became a sun-worshipper. Well, not overnight, you can't see the sun at night. But first thing the next morning, I became a sun-worshipper. Several reasons. First of all, I can see the sun, okay? Unlike some other gods I could mention, I can actually see the sun. I'm big on that. If I can see something, I don't know, it kind of helps the credibility along, you know? So everyday I can see the sun, as it gives me everything I need; heat, light, food, flowers in the park, reflections on the lake, an occasional skin cancer, but hey. At least there are no crucifixions, and we're not setting people on fire simply because they don't agree with us.
Sun worship is fairly simple. There's no mystery, no miracles, no pageantry, no one asks for money, there are no songs to learn, and we don't have a special building where we all gather once a week to compare clothing. And the best thing about the sun, it never tells me I'm unworthy. Doesn't tell me I'm a bad person who needs to be saved. Hasn't said an unkind word. Treats me fine. So, I worship the sun. But, I don't pray to the sun. Know why? I wouldn't presume on our friendship. It's not polite.
I've often thought people treat God rather rudely, don't you? Asking trillions and trillions of prayers every day. Asking and pleading and begging for favors. Do this, gimme that, I need a new car, I want a better job. And most of this praying takes place on Sunday His day off. It's not nice. And it's no way to treat a friend.
But people do pray, and they pray for a lot of different things, you know, your sister needs an operation on her crotch, your brother was arrested for defecating in a mall. But most of all, you'd really like to *beep* that hot little redhead down at the convenience store. You know, the one with the eyepatch and the clubfoot? Can you pray for that? I think you'd have to. And I say, fine. Pray for anything you want. Pray for anything, but what about the Divine Plan?
Remember that? The Divine Plan. Long time ago, God made a Divine Plan. Gave it a lot of thought, decided it was a good plan, put it into practice. And for billions and billions of years, the Divine Plan has been doing just fine. Now, you come along, and pray for something. Well suppose the thing you want isn't in God's Divine Plan? What do you want Him to do? Change His plan? Just for you? Doesn't it seem a little arrogant? It's a Divine Plan. What's the use of being God if every run-down shmuck with a two-dollar prayerbook can come along and *beep* up Your Plan?
And here's something else, another problem you might have: Suppose your prayers aren't answered. What do you say? "Well, it's God's will." "Thy Will Be Done." Fine, but if it's God's will, and He's going to do what He wants to anyway, why the *beep* bother praying in the first place? Seems like a big waste of time to me! Couldn't you just skip the praying part and go right to His Will? It's all very confusing.
So to get around a lot of this, I decided to worship the sun. But, as I said, I don't pray to the sun. You know who I pray to? Joe Pesci. Two reasons: First of all, I think he's a good actor, okay? To me, that counts. Second, he looks like a guy who can get things done. Joe Pesci doesn't *beep* around. In fact, Joe Pesci came through on a couple of things that God was having trouble with.
For years I asked God to do something about my noisy neighbor with the barking dog, Joe Pesci straightened that *beep* out with one visit. It's amazing what you can accomplish with a simple baseball bat.
So I've been praying to Joe for about a year now. And I noticed something. I noticed that all the prayers I used to offer to God, and all the prayers I now offer to Joe Pesci, are being answered at about the same 50% rate. Half the time I get what I want, half the time I don't. Same as God, 50-50. Same as the four-leaf clover and the horseshoe, the wishing well and the rabbit's foot, same as the Mojo Man, same as the Voodoo Lady who tells you your fortune by squeezing the goat's testicles, it's all the same: 50-50. So just pick your superstition, sit back, make a wish, and enjoy yourself.
And for those of you who look to The Bible for moral lessons and literary qualities, I might suggest a couple of other stories for you. You might want to look at the Three Little Pigs, that's a good one. Has a nice happy ending, I'm sure you'll like that. Then there's Little Red Riding Hood, although it does have that X-rated part where the Big Bad Wolf actually eats the grandmother. Which I didn't care for, by the way. And finally, I've always drawn a great deal of moral comfort from Humpty Dumpty. The part I like the best? "All the king's horses and all the king's men couldn't put Humpty Dumpty back together again." That's because there is no Humpty Dumpty, and there is no God. None, not one, no God, never was.
In fact, I'm gonna put it this way. If there is a God, may he strike this audience dead! See? Nothing happened. Nothing happened? Everybody's okay? All right, tell you what, I'll raise the stakes a little bit. If there is a God, may he strike me dead. See? Nothing happened, oh, wait, I've got a little cramp in my leg. And my balls hurt. Plus, I'm blind. I'm blind, oh, now I'm okay again, must have been Joe Pesci, huh? God Bless Joe Pesci. Thank you all very much. Joe Bless You!
He would have won if he just stayed in the bush. His wifes complaining was their down fall.
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