MovieChat Forums > 13th (2016) Discussion > Don't do the crime

Don't do the crime


Don't do the crime if you can't do the time. Don't want to get shot, then quit breaking the law *beep*

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Seems like common sense.

There wouldn't be so many blacks in jail if they weren't commiting so much crime.

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Ridley Scott and halfapack:

There wouldn't be so many blacks in jail if they weren't commiting so much crime.


That's bull****, and the film will explain why. You two racist idiots need to shut up and watch the film. Because what you said is just some plain racist bull****. In fact there's a story in the film about a young black man who got picked up and accused of a crime he'd never committed, yet he still ended up sitting in jail for THREE damn years because he wouldn't plea guilty to a crime he didn't commit. On top of that, he was never even charged with this crime he was accused of. So shut up and watch the film for that.

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This documentary isn't saying crime shouldn't be punished but that laws are made up specifically to target black people disproportionately. That these laws come from the same historical context that allowed slavery, Jim Crow, segregation and now mass incarceration.

The Nixon campaign in 1968, and the Nixon White House after that, had two enemies: the antiwar left and black people. You understand what I’m saying? We knew we couldn’t make it illegal to be either against the war or black, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin, and then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities. We could arrest their leaders, raid their homes, break up their meetings, and vilify them night after night on the evening news. Did we know we were lying about the drugs? Of course we did.


-John Ehrlichman Nixon Aide

Also this isn't a racial thing but the prison system in the US is crazy it forces you to plead guilty or rot in jail while you wait for your trial if you can't afford bail. Maybe a more integrated community police with sensible punishments for low level offences would be cheaper and more beneficial for everyone.

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This documentary isn't saying crime shouldn't be punished but that laws are made up specifically to target black people disproportionately.


What laws?
Go ahead and list some of the laws that are on the books today that were made to discriminate against blacks.

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https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/STATUTE-100/pdf/STATUTE-100-Pg3207.pdf
Having 5 grams of crack got you the same time as 500 grams of cocaine, crack was mostly used by black people cocaine was a higher class drug. It was reduced down with the fair sentencing act of 2010 but there are still many in prison today with mandatory minimums given under this act.

Imprisoning someone for being a drug addict is ridiculous to begin with. It's much more cost effective, humane and responsible to offer addiction treatment services instead of sending them to prisons and forcing them to live with the tag of a felon for the rest of their life. Denying them a vote for life even after they have 'paid their debt to society' is absurd. Is there any part of the US judicial system that encourages rehabilitation over punishment?

The Mulford act (1967) was a gun control law brought in by Reagan himself in direct response to the black panthers arming themselves.

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I feel the need to address this since this keeps becoming a pathetic argument. First stop by comparing crack cocaine to powder cocaine are you insinuating that African Americans are more prone to crack cocaine use than anyone else?
First off I am sure you are using federal law vs. State law on this argument. Police officers don't enforce federal laws that enforced local laws. Each state decides what punishment fits what crime and trust me every state has something different. So this makes this argument extremely invalid. The only way you're going to get charged with federal drug crimes is if you're a big time drug dealer yourself or you get caught with drugs on an airplane because the DEA or FBI would have to be involved not local law enforcement.
Now let's get on the topic of local law enforcement in African American communities. You are far less likely to get arrested for petty amount of drugs in urban areas and due to the resources. In small suburbs and the country which tend to be more white people you will be arrested for those things. believe me in our major cities nobody is arrested for a rock.

Not that any of this really matters if you break the law you do deserve to go to jail

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Blacks are almost the entirety of the crack distribution network and prey upon addicts as a way to stick it to the white man. This is a major source of income for blacks in the US. It's a major problem in the crime statistics and should be dealt with accordingly. I don't know a single white crack dealer, but the jails around my area are loaded with black crack dealers. It's a poisonous environment for everyone involved in it. I pulled two weeks in the co. jail for a DUI and every black in there was locked up for distribution of crack, home invasion, or failure to pay child support. Facts.

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Amazing how someone (Ref to first 2 posters) can come on with an opinion and obviously didn't watch, pay attention or understand the film...just amazing.
Maybe stick to cartoons in the future.

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As a white girl that grew up in Detroit, let me try to paint a hypothetical picture for you.

Imagine if the government , local, state or federal created punishments for crimes that put white people in prison at a higher rate. For example, white Americans break hunting laws at an alarming rate in America., these can include anything from hunting at the wrong time to hunting without a proper license. After some of these crimes are discovered it is also discovered that some hunters are breaking more serious crimes, like being under the influence or possession of drugs, alcohol or even hunting with illegal weapons. What if they decided, that you would get a 1 year mandatory sentence after breaking hunting laws three times because they are trying to stop the small percentage of hunters breaking serious crimes? That would put an unfairly high amount of white people in jail because guess what, White people are "doing the crime", technically.

Now for Reality,

I can tell you for a fact that there's more white people involved with the sale and possssion of illegal drugs in this country, than black, Hispanic and Asian people. But it's awfully funny that most of the black people that are in jail are there because of drugs. white people are in fact " doing the crime more often", but aren't doing the time because they aren't even picked up. In Detroit, one of the biggest crack and meth rings were dealing untouched because it was developed in the suburbs where police don't even show up unless they are called. Meanwhile, black people were being arrested and jailed in inner city Detroit just for loitering because of a crackdown on arson. You couldn't be black and walk down your freaking street without being arrested because you could "potentially" be an arsonist. I had a good friend that was in jail for 3 months because he couldn't afford bail. They released him because it was ,in their words, "a mistake". They took 3 months of his life away because of a mistake. A mistake based on a crime of arson, while white people are selling pills and meth rall over town and don't even get me started on the prostitution and human trafficking that white people are controlling in this city and state.

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Imagine if the government , local, state or federal created punishments for crimes that put white people in prison at a higher rate. For example, white Americans break hunting laws at an alarming rate in America., these can include anything from hunting at the wrong time to hunting without a proper license. After some of these crimes are discovered it is also discovered that some hunters are breaking more serious crimes, like being under the influence or possession of drugs, alcohol or even hunting with illegal weapons. What if they decided, that you would get a 1 year mandatory sentence after breaking hunting laws three times because they are trying to stop the small percentage of hunters breaking serious crimes? That would put an unfairly high amount of white people in jail because guess what, White people are "doing the crime", technically.


This ^ comment should get the facepalm of the year award on imdb, lol.

I don't think wild game hunters are a threat to society.
People who do armed robberies, sell addictive drugs, and murder people are indeed a threat. Also, why would law enforcement target hunters out in the country? Small towns out in the country have such a low crime rate, it wouldn't justify an increased police presence.

I can tell you for a fact that there's more white people involved with the sale and possssion of illegal drugs in this country, than black, Hispanic and Asian people. But it's awfully funny that most of the black people that are in jail are there because of drugs.


TOTALLY FALSE.
Roughly the same percentage of whites and blacks are in state prisons for drug offenses. (whites - 15%) (blacks - 16%)

Drug offenders account for only a small portion of the state prison population overall, around 16%.

According to the Bureau of Prisons, there are 207,847 people incarcerated in FEDERAL prisons. Roughly half (48.6 percent) are in for drug offenses. According to the Bureau of Justice Statistics, there are 1,358,875 people in STATE prisons. Of them, 16 percent have a drug crime as their most serious offense.

Fedral prisons have a higher percentage of drug offenders. But to end up in a federal prison for drugs, it has to be A LOT OF DRUGS. You don't get sent to federal prison for a dime bag. There are many prisoners sentenced for drugs along with other crimes as well. The drug offense may just be the most serious charge.

white people are in fact " doing the crime more often"


What are your sources for the claim that white people are selling drugs more often? Care to offer some links, or other sources?

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two clarifications,

I didn't mean to say wild game hunting is a threat to society. Actually I was saying it isn't ,just like selling marijuana isn't a threat to society. My point was that, if they arrested people or started arresting people for those crimes just to stop a more serious crime then it would be unethical and would in fact yield a bunch of white people in prison. I was using a hypothetical scenario but I could've easily used a real one , like DUI's for example. We both would agree that DUI's are a threat to society. What if they made and enforced a law saying that after 3 DUI's you would be charged with a federal crime? What ethnicity would you think would end up in prison?

Also, I didn't mean to say white people were selling drugs more often, In saying "doing the crime" more often. I was referring to the involvement in those crimes. Blacks for example represent a small percentage of the demographics of the world wide distribution of drugs but a higher number of arrest.

And although I was saying what you thought I was saying there are surveys that show that whites sell drugs more often. One is from the Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration surveys from 2011 or 2012.


I love !

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I implore you to give your opinions some real thought. What the doc is trying to explain is the way in which African Americans have been continually pushed to the margins of society and a number of tactics used to do this, these tactics becoming increasingly "subtle" as the world moves forward. We have moved from lynching, to segregation, to the war on drugs. When an entire race is pushed to the margin of society and continually put down, beaten up, SHOT by police, it creates a cycle. A vicious, poisonous cycle. The term that is often used is systematic racism; a racism that runs so thick and so deep in the veins of the country that it becomes part of every day life. Please, I implore you, try to do some research and try to put yourself in someone else's shoes.

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Clearly you lack education if you think prison sentences are about "doing the the time if you do the crime." Perhaps a little trip to the library will help you be a bit more educated and a little less ignorant.

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it's clear you came away from the documentary with a very rudimentary and close minded interpretation. "13th" covers how the abolishment of slavery never was truly abolished and has been reworked into a system designed to keep minority in poverty. a system designed for people with less opportunities to fail and be punished disproportionately...

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1. Slavery was abolished. However, if you believe that you are still a slave, or if you believe in the tooth fairy, you are certainly entitled to your beliefs.
2. The "system" does not keep blacks in poverty. Poverty results from bad choices, such as dropping out of school, committing crime, and having out-of-wedlock children. Black Americans have a higher standard of living than any other blacks on the planet. If you want to see horrible black poverty, just go to any black-majority country.
3. Blacks are not punished disproportionately, in fact, most blacks who are arrested already have a rap sheet a mile long, starting at an early age.

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1. Section 1. Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.

-The 13th Amendment it's in the title of the board you're commenting on.

2. You've got it completely backwards you don't become poor by dropping out of school, you drop out of school because you're poor. Crime is a result of poverty and lack of opportunity and people have absentee fathers because they are disproportionately imprisoned. It has been proven time and again that investment social programmes focused on early years intervention is more cost effect and produces better results than throwing young people into detention centres. Is you point that black people should be happy that they are the worst treated group in a first world country?

3. Putting aside the sweeping generalisation about 'most blacks who are arrested already have a rap sheet a mile long, starting at an early age.' Black people are more likely to be stopped and frisked, more likely to be arrested for minor drug possession. The rate of criminality isn't higher just the level of enforcement is much higher when applies to people of colour.

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2. WHAT? Being poor doesn't make you drop out of school. Having parents who are horrible parents is what lets you drop out of school. I know this is anecdotal information and skewed because I'm in mensa... but I grew up in a mobile home in a rural farming area and made my way to 12 years military service, BS degree, and spent the last 26 years in the IT field. At no point did I or my single mom ever think about my dropping out of school. I was as poor as you could get, yet gradded HS 16th out of 277 graduates.

Blame the generational bias of people who pass on to their offspring that education is worthless.

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First of all congratulations on what you've achieved but as a highly educated person you have to see that there are enviromantal and social factors that are powerful influencers on how people turn out.

Firstly the schools in poorer areas get less funding that and are worse equipped that those in wealthier areas. This already puts students at a dissadvantage and creates a sense of apathy towards eductaion.

Secondly a point raised in the documentary is that many of the parents particularly fathers are absent fron the house due to lenghty periods of incarceration. Even when they get out they might be barred from living with the family if they live in social housing. This increases the need to provide for the family I'm glad that your mother prioritised your education but for some people thats a much harder decision.

I'm delighted you managed to get an education for yourself by working hard in the army but that option isnt available for everyone and evn if it was the army shouldn't be the only way out of poverty its unsustainable on a societal level. Could the army pay for the education if all 15 million children living in poverty in America? Early age intervention in the poorest areas will have a much larger knock on effect at a much lower cost that your 12 year employment and education but thats a seperate discussion.

Theres a reason that poor children drop out of education at rates 6 times higher than their wealthier peers and it isn't all down to how much they value education all though I'm there is a small element of that involved too.

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you're points make more sense backwards. K thanks

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People,please ignore this troll TruthHurts101. Most of the s*** it spews isn't truth, it's just hate toward black people---that's all she/he/it ever comes on these boards to say. And of course, it's never seen the film, but it's always got some racist s*** to say against black folks. Now kindly fck off, troll. You're been exposed.

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Yeah, 'cause it is that simple. Oh, who could have known that you ought to have been breaking the law to be shot. Pfft, this guy.

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