MovieChat Forums > Call Me by Your Name (2018) Discussion > Pedophile Story? (possible spoilers)

Pedophile Story? (possible spoilers)


Just saw the movie. If I understood correctly, it is about a 17 year old having a sexual relationship with a 30 year old. The movie was okay (a bit long), but what's bugging me is that the film feels like, and is being embraced as, a warm coming of age love story. If the kid is 17, then there is molestation involved. I'm not objecting to the gay intimacy of the movie. I'm objecting to this film being embraced as a warm love story. If the gender of the teenager had been female, there would have been outrage. I feel this movie is morally off.

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Well it's not pedophilia since he is not a child but a teen. It is wrong obviously, an adult should know better and respect the law. But I am more trouble by all the gay antics from the two main actors, hugging each other, doing all this gay stuff in their promo, obviously pandering to the new fascist liberalism, yet they are not gay, they haven't had to go through the risks, the bullying, the danger. It's almost like if it was a celebrated minstrel show. Why do THEY get to do it? If it was two gay actors or one gay actor it would be frowned upon. It also begs the question, why weren't gay actors cast on the roles? The whole situation is gross to me. And the movie looks like shit.

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At one point, the Armie Hammer character rejects the teen, saying something like (paraphrasing): "I know myself. I still haven't done anything wrong, and that's good." The point is (I believe), he knew that pursuing a teen would be wrong.

Also, the 17 year old could barely shave, which denotes his youth.

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I see, anyway that thimotee person is beyond repulsive.

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Why is that?

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sorry but have you seen him?

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Yes. Seems like a normal young man to me. Why is he repulsive?

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his face, his body, how he acts, there is not an ounce of attractiveness to him.

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Okay. I'm a straight male, so I can't judge him on his attractiveness, but he seemed good looking to me.

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He's absolutely gorgeous.

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You don’t have to be straight to have an opinion on how attractive a man is. Armie Hammer is as close to objectionably gorgeous as anyone can be. He looks like a Ken doll. Of course, he possesses one type of male beauty, but it is the classic (or cliche) type.

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Letthemeatcake, a general note (I see your posts everywhere; I don’t know if anyone on the site is as active as you): your harsh opinions take away from your keen knowledge of film and filmmaking. You have a strong argument about the minstrel show, but repeatedly calling the leads ugly/gross, particularly while doing it at the same time you talk about black face takes away from your fair and sharp criticisms.

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why? I honestly do think they are very ugly and unsexy, specially Chamalet.

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I think Armie Hammer embodies Western ideas of male beauty. While of course how attractive anyone is is entirely subjective, there are historical norms regarding beauty; from at least the 20th century on, Westerners, at least Americans, have liked their men tall, muscular, and with a Batman jaw (cartoon Batman). I felt he was perfectly cast because he has enough acting chops to actually make the character human and he looks the type who might sweep people off their feet. (Many people, though as we can see here, not all.)

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He only has those qualities from afar, he is not truly a good looking person, it took him 10 years but he's finally able to fool people into thinking he is all that and you are clearly falling for it.

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Well it’s true I haven’t seen him in person.

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[deleted]

I guess you look awful.

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it's bad form to ask someone to reveal their true identity on an internet forum...

What letthemeatcake looks like is irrelevant...

I think Armie Hammer looks good, in a very American way... I know some women who disagree, but most find him attractive... I haven't asked any gay dudes about him...

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Repulsive? I think you are in a distinct minority with that opinion. He has amazing eyes.

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In a lot of places in Europe the age of consent is 14.

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I read that the older character is 24, not 30..
Sorry but I don't see any problem with this be it homosexual or heterosexual..It is not pedophilia...as far too many incorrectly label and report.
Geez..people need to truly learn what certain words actually mean...

And to be honest, that sort of age difference is common in real life. Or it was for me..
I experienced, as a heterosexual female, several older romances as a teen and I did know the difference between that and predator. I don't consider 17 and 24 that worrisome. It depends on the situation
The biggest problem would be if one were in certain power positions; like a teacher.

But people need to stop being offended by everything. It's getting old.
If something doesn't work for me I just won't watch it..Everyone, these days...is offended by everything as if the world just turns for them.
I could care less about this movie in particular because even heterosexual romances tend to bore me..so homosexual coming of age stories likely just won't do much for me and my interest..

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[deleted]

Haha..I'm probably old enough to be your mother. I've had plenty of time to process my life and my past encounters..Everything these days is over analyzed and every twitch a trigger for something. Everything and everyone is in a box and nothing can breathe.
Life is more complicated and sometimes gray. It just is.
But today everyone is black and white and opinions are narrow and stagnant.

Predators usually tend to mean those targeting young teens. A 17 year old is one year away from being officially an adult.
You think it's magic?... Somebody wakes up one day and they suddenly feel so much more grown up than the day, the week or the month before?
Truth is that most people don't fully grow up until well into their 20's or even their 30's anyway. Children should be protected..yes..but people in their mid to late teens will do what they want despite what everyone else thinks they should want. And people a few years older that get close to them are not automatically monsters.

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[deleted]

You're assuming an extreme position. An absolute either way.
I'm not advocating, generally, for teens to date older people. Every one and every thing is different.
For instance; you are assuming that a 17 yr old dating a 24 yr old would always be a bad thing.
When I was 13/14 I liked a 17/18 yr old. He went to my mother and asked permission to see me. She set forth certain stipulations that he honored. I was better off when I was seeing him than I ever was with guys my own age.
He didn't push sex and he wouldn't let me drink or other recreations in his presence. Not like guys my own age.
On the other hand certain predator types approached me a lot all through my teens...from 13-16. I understood those that were predators from those that were not. A 24 yr old that I liked gave me his number and asked me to call him in about a year..(I was 16 going on 17). Others did not have his finesse but that doesn't mean everyone else is bad or predatory. It depends on the person. It depends on whether they're being predatory to take advantage of their position and regularly target someone younger..

Sometimes people are more mature at 17 and sometimes people can form a bond regardless of age. 18 is only a legal number and not the age of consent anyway. Depending on the situation I wouldn't judge a 17/24 year old relationship strictly based on their ages.
Life is complicated and we don't always know what's best from one size fits all.

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[deleted]

In most US states the age of consent is 16.

In Italy the age is 13 with exemptions and 14 without restrictions.

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[deleted]

I appreciate your anti-child abuse stance (and assume and hope it's embraced by everybody posting here), but your line of argument is weak. First of all, you're suggesting that in each US state where the age of consent is 16--which again is most--that there are more screwed up people and kids having kids than in the few states where the age of consent is 18. Do you have facts or numbers to back this claim up? Do you even know in which states the age is 16 and in which states the age is 18?

And generally, you seem to think in the blackest and whitest of terms. You seem to think that not only can no 17 year-old ever have sex with someone over 18, but that everybody who is 18 CAN have sex with anybody over 18. Are you fine with an 18 year-old with a 50 year-old? And would you prefer an 18 year-old with a 50 year-old to a 21 year-old with a 17 year-old?

I've disagreed with a lot of what you both you and bohemianroxie have said, but one thing I think she's right about it is one size not fitting all. There are mature teenagers who have demonstrated handling relationships with older men. Woody Allen's wife, perhaps unfortunately, is a good example. She's been with him now for 25 years. Maybe you think she has Stockholm Syndrome though. I agree with you that enacting laws to try to protect a large number of people who time has proven don't always make the best decisions for themselves is best practice. But I question your seeming blind faith in the ages legislators and politicians decided upon. If the age were moved up to 19, would you then have problems with a 24 year-old dating an 18 year-old?

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Have you hung around a 17 year old lately?

At one point in the movie Oliver even writes to him "grow up"

I can't believe anyone is defending this. Dating 17 year olds when you're 24 is not ok.

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You answered none of my questions.

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Your sensationalistic thread title is inaccurate. You see, Oliver's relationship with Elio would have made him a ephebophile having a primary sexual interest in mid-to-late adolescents, generally ages 15 to 19 and not a pedophile. In addition, Oliver was an upcoming professor who had no homosexual leanings before he met Elio. The age of consent in most countries is 16 and 14 in many parts of Europe. There was a very special connection and bond between the two.

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I believe Oliver had a hell of a lot of experience with men before Elio. Fist of all, I can't imagine someone with no experience with oral sex 1. diving into it so easily and 2. being so good at it (he appeared to very good at it, based on the look on Elio's face). Second of all, there was the bit about "not having done anything to be ashamed of" and "wanting to be good." I think it is very clear that he's been with men before and knows, it being 1983 (not that in 2018 we've rid ourselves of homophobia), that it's "bad" to be gay. As he says later, his father would send him to a correctional facility.

I agree that they had a very special bond and that Oliver's behavior wasn't predatory, though I still question whether or not a man well into his 20's should act on his feelings toward a 17 year-old. I know I wouldn't feel good about a man Oliver's age having a relationship with a girl in 11th or 12th grade.

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Here is how I look at it. First, the ages are 17 and 24 (and in real life about 20 and 29 while filming). The age difference is definitely there for a reason, but not for the point of him being "underage" and it being predatory, but more so to showcase the contrasts as well as similarities between where they both are at in life. That is expressed in terms of being comfortable with themselves and who they are as a person and who they want to be with and how and why they end up bonding. The ages are to help better contextualize the background, family, culture, era, intelligence, confidence, experience, maturity, self-awareness, etc. of the characters. This also helps explain the reality of the relationship in terms of if it can last or how it can last and how they are both going to feel about it. If it makes you uncomfortable act like the younger character (Elio) is 18 or 19 since the point isn't about age but rather the stage in life. Elio is at an age where it's his first love and obsession and different sexual feelings are coming to the surface and having him younger is a realistic stage in life when that would happen. There is the argument too that age shouldn't matter because its legal and the age of consent in Italy even younger than 17, which maybe you don't think is right but that what it is. There is also the argument that Elio is mature for his age and they are intellectually on the same level. Elio is also is pursuing the older character and its not predatory at all and it is all consensual. I don't really like the general argument or excuse of "well he's mature for his age" because thats a common creep move in real life for excusing predatory behavior, but the truth is it is all legal and consensual and the exact age isn't the point. Its not a pedophile story in legal or thematic terms. ( I am not very good at writing or consolidating my thoughts so I hope this made at least a little sense)

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I recommend researching ephebophilia and hebephilia, both of which, like pedophilia, are chronophilias but are indeed not pedophelia. Were Armie Hammer's character a man who exclusively pursued relationships with boys the age of Timothee Chalamet's, he may be an ephebophile. However, if his attraction isn't exclusively to boys this age, he wouldn't be.

All I know about life for gay boys and men I know from reading and listening, so I can't authoritatively speak to their experiences, but I understand that for many gay men relationships with older men is a big part of coming of age and into one's own in a world that even in 2018 is shunned by so many.

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What is the age of consent wherever they are in Italy?

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In Austria, Italy and Germany the age of consent is 14; in Sweden, France and Denmark it is 15 – and Spain recently raised its age of consent from 13 to 16. Meanwhile in Turkey and Malta, teenagers have to wait until they are 18 for sex to be legal.

Not sure what it was at the time of the movie's setting.

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The age of consent in a large portion of the US is 16 or 17. In the rest of the world, sometimes lower. Some 17 year olds are wiser and more mature than some 30 year olds. It would only be morally questionable if one party was in a role of authority over the other, or if there was a large disparity in the mental capacity or maturity level of the two parties. Not having seen the movie, I don't know if that was the case.

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