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Bernthal is simply not the best fit for the Punisher

posted 5 years ago by alanparsons (541)
20 replies | jump to latest

I've been wanting a true to form live version of the Punisher for decades now. I still don’t think anyone has gotten it right yet. Jon Bernthal’s Punisher isn’t intelligent enough and Thomas Jane wasn’t gritty enough. Ray Stevenson was okay, but his Irishness was very obvious and he simply didn't sell it enough to me. Dolph Lundgren was a valiant effort for the '80s but it's really not even a contender.

Frank Castle is an impossibly tough, highly intelligent, former marine and now ruthless killer of Italian heritage (Francis "Frank" Castiglione "Castle"). He is a man with only one purpose in life, and that is to kill people he considers bad. There is nothing else for him but this. All these guys I've mentioned have failed to bring this criteria together. None of these guys have been able to hone in on that single minded killing machine that is Frank Castle and look like him while doing it.

Bernthal has given it a decent shot, but I’m just not crazy about him in the role. He’s short, kind of dopey, vaguely angry instead of coldly vengeful, and he lacks the chiseled facial features of Frank Castle from the comic books. Thomas Jane or Ray Stevenson were at least much closer in physical appearance of the character.

My personal favorite for the Punisher so far has been Thomas Jane, but there were serious problems with his movie and his portrayal. Like why was the movie set in Florida? And Thomas Jane needed to step up the cold blooded killer persona a few notches. The fight with the Russian was iconic though so that helped.

One day I really hope the MCU has the ability to put the character on screen and dedicates some serious money to the project because a true to form Punisher would be a huge success.

[–] newguy33 (319) 5 years ago

What about Frank Grillo as Punisher?

[–] alanparsons (541) 5 years ago

He has the appearance. He clearly has the ability to be gritty and a killer from other roles he's done. He's Italian. He's from New York. And he's already got the name Frank! The last thing to tie it together for him would be the acting chops required to show a man who has lost his wife and children to the mafia and now has an insatiable drive to kill all would be criminals. Great pick for a potential actor.

[–] newguy33 (319) 5 years ago

The only problem could be his age, he's 53. I don't know the Punisher comics well but the original character seems to be much younger.

[–] alanparsons (541) 5 years ago

Dang Wikipedia has him at 55. That's pushing it. He could do a "later era" Punisher but at this point he wouldn't be able to do an origin story unless they CGI him like crazy.

[–] thenewnexus (1905) 5 years ago

In Max Castle was in his 50s

[–] ShogunofYonkers (71747) 5 years ago

I never saw the Dolph version...I don't care for his acting
Jane was decent but the Florida setting made it feel off and Jane is not very intimidating
Stevensen was very good and was in the best of the films imo...

I really like Bernthal for the role
He looks like The Punisher and brings a good amount of anger and physicality to the role
I'm team Bernthal all the way alanparsons

[–] alanparsons (541) 5 years ago

He looks like The Punisher

He literally does not. Go pull up a picture of the Punisher before Bernthal took the role. He's simply not the Punisher in appearance. He's too short, skinny head, has the wrong hair, absolutely does not have the body frame. Besides skin tone he just doesn't fit. He does ok with the anger and brooding, but Frank Castle is supposed to be a sharp military man. Bernthal plays the role like he's always on drugs and he can barely speak.

[–] [deleted] 5 years ago

In the early comics, the Punisher is drawn with big bulgy muscles, a busted looking nose, tightly cropped dark hair with a couple of strands hanging down, perpetual 5 o'clock shadow and a pissed off look.

Bernthal has the dark hair -- albeit closely cropped -- the busted nose and the unshaven face. Bernthal doesn't have the big bulgy muscles thing. He is pretty cut and has the leaner but solid build of an actual fighter.

Looks cool in the comics, but, in reality, big blocky bodybuilder-style muscles aren't functional for combat purposes. Fighters have a lean muscularity that lends itself more for speed/endurance than brute strength. Bernthal's build is more realistic for the screen. (Thomas Jane had a similar look.)

Later versions of the character (done by Tim Bradstreet) portray him with a high hairline, hair pulled back tight and normal proportions, i.e. no big, bulging muscles. Is this the version you are talking about? I've never cared for this look. I always picture all that tight hair pulled back into a ponytail at the back. He looks more like the douchey guy working at the used vinyl record shop than a soldier. (I suppose that might work to his advantage though.)

So, overall, I think Bernthal mostly captures the physical essence of the character, if not every aspect of the comic book version which would look unrealistic anyway. I think the worst that could be said of him is that he's shorter than the comic version. (Bernthal is just short of 6 feet, whereas I picture the comic version about 6'4" or so.)

[–] thenewnexus (1905) 5 years ago

In the 2019 run of Daredevil,Castle shows up and he looks big

[–] [deleted] 5 years ago

As for the 'dopey' acting, that's a matter of preference and style I guess. The series are set literally in the first year of the character. He repeatedly demonstrates that he's smarter than everyone else in the room when it comes to fire fights and tactics. He doesn't otherwise give too much away about what he's thinking. In the comics, he gets to make all sorts of comic book-y quips and asides... on screen they would just come off as hokey. None of the various versions of the Punisher did this... except for that one classic bit by Jane towards the end of his movie.

(I just watched the 3rd ep of the 2nd season. The bit where Frank goes after the hit squad in the forest... he's efficiently killing everyone in the woods. However, I thought he 'missed' that one big guy that he only wounds, and the guy goes down crying in pain. Took me a couple of beats to realize what Frank was really up to.)

(In the courtroom scene of S2 of Daredevil, where Frank realizes that Matt Murdock and DD are one and the same ... that was a masterful bit of acting by Bernthal.)

Personally, I think Bernthal and the writers have nailed the important bits of the character, and I'm disappointed that the series is cancelled. I doubt we'll see any depiction this good again. If it's resurrected by Disney, it will likely be with a new actor and/or watered down to the point of being pablum.

[–] NotASpeckOfCereal (302) 5 years ago

Just because these Marvel shows are becoming Disney properties doesn't mean they're going to turn them into Mickey Mouse shows. I'm holding out hopes that they let them roll as they are. They have to, or they're just going to die.

[–] [deleted] 5 years ago

I'm hoping so too but there were reports that Marvel can't make any new series with the characters for three years(!) after they were cancelled by Netflix.

It doesn't bode well for seeing the various series continue with the same story and actors... :(

[–] thenewnexus (1905) 5 years ago

They have done those with the movies already

[–] redban (5202) 5 years ago

At first, I had doubts about Bernthal's ability to portray the character too. He has a sort of goofy appearance, with the ears and large nose; Bernthal looks a little Latino, in fact. But after a little while, I no longer noticed those traits, and I believe he did a fine job. He was intimidating, he brought intensity to the role, and his closely-cropped hair and ragged face gave the Punisher character a sort of grittness that we didn't see in prior incarnations. Bernthal also had enough acting chops to portray the depressed widower / father.

I do think his height came in play on a few occasions, as we could see that Micro was bigger than him when the camera gave us full-body shots of the 2 of them together. But these shots were few and far between.

[–] Icecutter (363) 4 years ago

He's the best yet, too short but would be near impossible to get a perfect guy for Punisher.

Certainly he's better than the Warzone actor many seem to rate, who to me was like a comedy actor
(Thomas Jane was also good imo but again too short and small)

[–] kenburke (2280) 4 years ago

I disagree. Bernthal was an EXCELLENT Punisher.

[–] TheReccher (343) 4 years ago

Comic book fans are too hung up with expecting one-to-one accuracy when it comes to adaptations, down to every to every nook and detail, when that's not what a film-maker is and should be doing. A film-maker should make changes based on the new medium and world the character occupies. That's the physics of adapting a character.

Jon Bernthal was stellar. No iffs ands or butts about it. It doesn't matter if he doesn't "look smart" (whatever that means) or doesn't "look like a killing machine," (again, whatever that means), there's a reason he made grown men cry in a graveyard scene that was twenty minutes too long on paper. That's quantifiably great acting. The MCU has given us a perfect on screen Punisher, his name is Jon Bernthal.

[–] jakemon45 (971) 4 years ago

It's really hard to compare all the incarnations as they are all so incredibly different. And they all each have their own merits. To me, War Zone is the best Punisher movie. The Punisher (04) is the best movie (a really great revenge flick). Jon Bernthal's is the best performance in general (although not the best Frank Castle/ Punisher as a character). If I had to give anything to the 89 movie I'd say it's just fun 80s action cheese.

War Zone is without a doubt the most faithful and perfectly captures the comic character.

[–] filmgeek99 (592) 2 years ago

Finally, someone who agrees with me on this! A lot of fans seem to think Bernthal's the perfect Punisher just because "Oh, he's so gritty!" or "Oh, he's so intense!" But those aren't the only factors that go into making a great Punisher, as the character is also meant to be a highly methodical, highly intelligent assassin. Bernthal's certainly got the anger down, but he's also got this dopey, thuggish, dumbass look about him that hardly conveys intelligence.

It doesn't help, of course, that the character is written to act and talk like a giant lumbering brute, with constant shouting and grunting under his breath. Bernthal may have some aspects of the character down but he's hardly a perfect representation of the Punisher from the comics. The folks who say he is, are probably the same people who think Andrew Garfield is the best Spider-Man simply because he cracks the most jokes.