Abra constantly says things like “they deserved it” whenever she kills members of the evil team. This comes off as a little bit self-righteous. I’m surprised Danny never says something like “what they did was wrong, but you are just as bad if you want them dead.”
shareYes, that child definitely had an evil/self-righteous streak... She seemed to enjoy punishing those guys just a bit too much. Rose the Hat even comments on it in the maze at the end (she reminds her of her younger self). I half expected Abra to become the true antagonist at the end, seeing as most of the time she managed to out-smart and out-power the baddies who never really seemed like a very serious threat to her.
shareShe "watched" these barbarians torture and kill a young boy in cold blood while hearing his screams of pain. What would you do? I would not only want them dead but in the worst way possible. I cheered as each one of them was picked off by Dan and Billy, and even more as Crow Daddy went flying through the windshield. They were evil; evil deserves to be eliminated no matter what.
shareI don't know... they were merely obeying their nature, which requires they feed on people's "steam" to survive. I guess, it's fair for shiners and regular human beings to defend themselves and try to destroy them, but not so much to "judge" them.
I thought the script hinted in several places at the True Knot having many similarities with humans, and in particular Abra:
- Abra shows empathy, but she has very little compassion, which are two different things. Her anguish when the boy is tortured is due to her being forced to identify with him / experience what he does, because of her shining. But she teases members of the True Knot as they lie dying ("You deserved it", "I hope it hurts"), withering in pain, because they are 'The Other'. In that respect she's like the True Knot (Rose the Hat literally aches -i.e. empathizes with the members of her 'family'- when they are killed one by one, but feels no compassion for her human victims).
Judging a category of people as 'evil' (or inferior, 'cockroaches', whatever...) and then using that verdict to justify extreme actions opens the door to terrible things and taints the soul.
- The True Knot fear death, just like humans: Grampa Flick is terrified by the prospect of annihilation, like that old dude Danny comforts at the nursing home where he works at.
Both humans and True Knot 'ghosts' do what their nature dictate they do to temporarily avoid death (True Knot slaughter and feed on humans, humans slaughter and feed on animals...). Also, it would seem like the True Knot only kill when absolutely necessary and otherwise try to feed on canisters as much as they can.
They're not required to feed on steam to survive.
shareI thought that wasn't made clear from the film alone.
shareIt was made clear they need to feed on steam if they want to live centuries-long lifespans. If they never start, they live the same normal human lifespan as anyone else. In other words, they are stealing extra life from people -- mostly small children -- by torturing them and sucking away their lifeforce. Yeah, they were pure evil, and they chose to be. There is nothing wrong with Abra feeling a completely justified sense of satisfaction at their deaths.
shareIt's normal to be vengeful against sadistic child killers.
shareIt's normal to 'want' to be, if you're related to the child.
But the moment passion or vengeance collide with justice, the latter never comes out unscathed.
Meaning?
shareMeaning:
1) Can't always act out on your impulses of feelings if you want to be part of society.
2) Feeling righteous doesn't necessarily mean you're "right".
3) Torturing even a sadistic child killer is "street-justice", not "justice" (eschews due process, human rights, etc.).
The true knot were not human. They gave up their humanity along with the due process laws protecting them.
shareGood point.
Although the film makes sure to show us they feel fear (especially existential anxiety towards death) and pain.
Animals are not human either. Torturing them is at the very least immoral, and in most countries illegal. And we're not even sure they even have an awareness of death (from an existential viewpoint that is, them not having language, and therefore no concept of the future, and no concept of a time when they will be no more).
Good point. I would never be ok w/ torturing animals. Them not being human only elevates them in my book. The true knot could choose to make different decisions animals can't control their nature.
share"The true knot could choose to make different decisions animals can't control their nature."
***
I'm not so sure about that. At the very least we have the illusion that we can... but that's another topic altogether I guess!
I guess if we truly could we could nip this perpetual war thing in the bud. But to quote Fallout "War never changes."
shareWhat is the objective "right" punishment then, since you seem to feel you have a superior sense of justice? Imprisonment for life? That is actually more cruel. Tell me what is "right" or buzz off.
shareThat's what I always thought.
Today people are very uncomfortable about being tough on the bad guys.
There are a lot of naturally violent special needs people out there.
And the only thing that they usually understand is when it's done right back to them.
I suppose the problem is not so much getting "tough" on the "bad guys", as it is adopting a philosophy that externalizes evil and identifies groups of individuals as "the bad guys" (and then using this overly simple model of reality as a rationale to give free reins to one's own sadistic impulses... as Abra does.)
Yes but you are forgetting about cause and affect.
Would abbra act sadistic if it were not for those evil beings?
Because people choose to rape.and kidnap children.
Because they choose to murder.
The effects are people are going to act sadistic on them
You are trying to deflect from the bad people and look.into why good people want to eliminate the bad.
That's the point of having a nice place
"Yes but you are forgetting about cause and affect.
Would abbra act sadistic if it were not for those evil beings?"
***
This is fair enough. But then similar causes produce similar effects, don't you agree?
1) Both the True Knot and Abra need to kill (the former to feed, the latter to protect herself).
2) Even though both needn't do it in a sadistic fashion, both do.
3) Ergo, both are wrong.
But I agree there are different shades of "wrong" and that the True Knot did indeed strike first, and against defenseless victims, so they are definitely more evil than Abra.
I just find it disturbing that young Abra enjoys tormenting her victims as much as she does. Danny doesn't. he's a smarter, more complex human being, capable of understanding both the value of self-defense AND compassion.
"You are trying to deflect from the bad people and look.into why good people want to eliminate the bad."
***
Not exactly. There is a step between understanding why peaceful, law-abiding people need to protect themselves against (and, if need be, eliminate) those who seek to harm them, and condoning that protective measures entail sadistic moral and/or physical torture.
The devil is in the details I guess, but as an example I suppose if you ever came to commit a crime, you and your family would rather you did time in, say, a Western-European prison than in an Middle-Eastern one (but that's borderline "carceral discrimination" and not inclusive at all.... I'm probably going to get cancelled over this!).
What in the hell are you talking about? What in the hell are you currently on? That’s what I want to know.
shareDude, they murdered children. Are ll your other takes really this bad.
sharePeople are bashing you for this, and rightfully so I think, cause it sounds like you're just raising issues to troll.
But the funny thing is...you're actually more right than ppl realize. Abra's personality in this sense, is a slight sub plot point which comes up at the end of the book (which stems from a larger plot point earlier).
I think the movie makes her acting a bit more explicit, self-righteous as you say, but the movie doesn't acknowledge either of those plot points, so it just comes off as random flavor. But I wouldn't be surprised if this was intentional in the movie to show her like this.
Well, they DID deserve it. Everyone who tortures children in any way deserves things much worse than they got in this movie
shareThey did deserve it. And anyone who sympathizes them deserves it too.
shareYou're upset she killed the child murderers?
share