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I really dont understand why anyone would forgive Tonya Harding...

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I think it might come after realizing that sometimes the media is better at engaging in sensationalism than in presenting a fair and balanced perspective. That you may not actually know all that there is to know about the subject. Personally, I think she got the crap end of the stick and at the very least, deserves to have her case heard with open ears by the public that was so quick to indict her back in the day.
Especially considering that her entire life up until that point was all about figure skating, the work that she put into it, the lost childhood...I think its almost unfathomable to most people, the notion of sacrificing every day of your life for as long as you can remember. Whatever else she was, she was amazing as hell in that regard.

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Tonya, is that you?

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YOU'LL NEVER UNDERSTAND MY STRUGGLE!!

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Who cares about your struggle?

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I know how I remember it and what I thought when this all went down when I was 25 years old, and when seeing it today it puts it all in perspective. We were making fun of Harding too a bit, with her unrefined, tough, redneck persona. Whatever anyone's final opinion is I can't respect it if they refuse to see the movie and then, assuming it went down this way, discuss their opinion. I'm not saying they need to change their opinion, just reevaluate it after seeing the movie and see if they feel at all differently and then discuss why or why not. I know I do feel differently a bit.

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That was a love tap. If they wanted to do some real damage they certainly could have.

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Really?!? You call hitting somebody with a baton hard enough to cause a potentially crippling physical injury to somebody a love tap? You might want to think twice. Had Nancy Kerrigan been hit just a tad or so higher than on her leg where she'd been hit, she'd never walk again. Had she been hit a tad or so higher than where she was hit on her leg, the muscle would've been calcified. In either case, the potential for Nancy Kerrigan being crippled for life was there, and Tonya deserved to be punished for her involvement in the masterminding and planning of this sordid event.

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Kerrigan's injury wasn't nearly as bad as it was made out to be in the press - that's just a fact. No bones were broken no nerves were damaged so no need to play it up as if she were shot, she wasn't.

No evidence has ever been presented that she was involved in the attack or even planning of it. Only thing she can be said to have done wrong was not disclosing information about it when she admitted to finding out about it. And honestly not going to the police when you find out about something like that isn't a crime, it isn't the moral thing to do but it isn't a crime.

In the end she was treated unfairly by the judge and the skating federation. Think of all the things people do in sports and get much lesser penalties than a lifetime ban. Very few sporting figures ever get lifetime bans, in recent time you have Lance Armstrong... but other athlete are involved in much more notorious activity and don't get banned for life. She was more a victim of the media and how it crucified her than anything else.

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I have to disagree with you on all fronts here, thomas998. First of all, when close friends of Tonya Harding's do believe that she was involved in this whole sordid attack on Nancy Kerrigan, that says something about Tonya Harding herself right there...and not positive, either.

Secondly, bones don't have to be broken in order for an injury to be serious. The fact that Tonya Harding was involved in the masterminding and planning of an incident that resulted in a potentially crippling physical injury to a rival competitor (had the blow to Nancy Kerrigan's knee been just a bit lower or higher, either the muscle would've been totally calcified, or Nancy Kerrigan would never be able to walk again without aid.) says something about her as a person, not to mention the company that she's frequently kept.

Thirdly, the fact that Tonya Harding did co-conspire to obstruct the investigation and prosecution of Jeff Gillooly and his henchmen, which, in itself, was a crime, plus the fact that not too, too long afterwards, Tonya made a totally UNprovoked physical assault on a now-ex boyfriend/husband (Darren Silver) with a hubcap, seriously injured him and brought a police warrant down on her own head, was also a crime, and, between both of those crimes, Tonya Harding affectively sealed her own fate, and permanently de-railed her own career, for life.

Just because other athletes act badly, and that Tonya did have a horrible upbringing, that doesn't mean that Tonya was innocent. She has the attitude that it's always somebody else's fault, and she doesn't know how to accept responsibility for her own actions and behaviors. One has to ask how and why most people aren't that sympathetic with Tonya Harding, and it has nothing to do with her class background. Also, the owner of an Oregon Restaurant found a trash bag out in the back dumpster that wasn't theirs. Inside was a hand-scribbled note that revealed the name, address and phone number of the ice skating rink where Nancy Kerrigan practiced, and the United States's most prominent writing expert, and the FBI traced the handwriting of the note directly to Tonya Harding.

I'll also add that the fact that Tonya keeps changing her story, that there are so many inconsistencies to it, plus the fact that she's extremely shifty-eyed during her interviews indicates that she's a consummate liar, as well. She's also been known to fabricate stories, as well, such as the time that she was abducted, and then got away by running her truck into a tree. Had that happened, she would've either broken both her legs, or been seriously injured, or even killed. She didn't even have one scratch on her. She also made up a story about a man prowling around her house, which wasn't true, either.

Having said all of the above, I stand by everything I've said. Tonya Harding ruined her own life. Neither the media or anybody else did that to her. She should know that if one takes a career in the sports world, that they can expect to be scrutinized much more by the general public.

Also, a certain amount of decorum is expected, and she exhibited none of that.

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Mplo, are you still going on? You're repeating points that have already been addressed by me, trotting out stuff that you've no idea has been addressed by the movie...you're operating in the dark, my freaky foolish friend.
Yeah, I think Tonya has a hard time taking responsibility, but it makes sense for her to be if she's telling the truth. The guy who ultimately paid the attackers? You don't have to see him in the movie, watch his Sawyer interview to see the delusion in his dulled eyes. Yeah he pointed the finger at Harding, but he's also the person that both her and Gilooly claim masterminded the entire thing.

See, Tonya had gotten a threatening letter that they decided most likely came from Kerrigan's team. So Tonya got the address where Kerrigan practiced at in order to have a threatening letter sent to her, tit for tat. Hence the address in the garbage. But dull-eyed dough boy Eckhardt wanted to be the man who took care of things, so the idiot hired a couple fellows, got everyone in way over their heads and then pointed the finger at Tonya when his butt was on the line for it.

See, there was this movie made to address the side of the story that you're currently citing as your reasoning for not seeing the movie. You see how you're batshit in this, right? What you're bringing up is WHY the movie was made. You're obviously passionate about the issue, so why so dispassionate when it comes to trying to ascertain the most objective truth about it that you're able? Because like it or not, you're operating from a position of limited information, you're purposely ignorant and torturing people on the boards here to basically recite a movie for you that you should have seen yourself by now were it not for...what? For the sake of arguing? For being stuck in the asylum?

Stop the insanity and go see the movie. Go. If I hear a "But I don't want to, on account of Tonya's fat friend said that she's guilty", I'm going to find you. I'LL FIND YOU!

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You don't scare the fuck out of me one goddamned bit, Jehosaphet. In the first place, you're violating a law, by threatening people on the internet. In the second place, threatening somebody over the internet is the same thing as making threats to somebody by telephone--they're both illegal. Thirdly, I refuse to see the movie and that's that!

No, Jehosaphet!! YOU stop YOUR insanity and get the fuck off of my case, because I ain't about to go see the movie, "I, Tonya". I believe Tonya's close childhood friend. Tonya co-conspired to obstruct both the investigation and prosecution of Gillooly and his henchmen, which was a crime. She killed her own career. I have no sympathy for her, and I'm not going back on my word.

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ha ha ha ha
Make you report her vulgar posts. I am.

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I would but I don't think she can help it...I think she might be nucking futs lol

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Oh, shut up!

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Also, with all your talky word noises, you're not just seeing one side of it, you're missing the side with Gilooly shaking his head in shame and admitting, AD-fricking-MITTING that he alone ruined Tonya's career by involving his dull-eyed delusional dough-boy buddy.
That's a hell of a thing to admit. Almost as amazing as you finally admitting you're wrong. Which...is of course what's going to happen now....lol

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Who gives a fuck what you think, you cunt? Blow it out your ass!!

If you ever come to Boston, get your punk-ass down to Southie (South Boston, MA), flaunt your toughness there, so the rest of the world can see what you're really made of. I'd LOVE to see the upshot of THAT one...and to have a few good hearty, long laughs, in the bargain.

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I'm not siding with Gillooly, but I don't side with Tonya Harding, either. I stand 100% by my opinion that Tonya Harding was more than likely involved in the master-minding and planning the whole thing. Don't try to interpret what I think just to suit your opinions, bitch.

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I'm not reinterpreting your opinion, I'm just pointing out that the opinion you have is an uninformed one. And you can posture and pose self righteously all you want, but there's no getting around the fact that you're avoiding information that might end up contradicting it...that the manner in which you pursue truth isn't just flawed, its non-existent. Shoot, you don't seem to have as much interest in the truth as you do in feeling better by judging others...which puts you front and center to be scrutinized some yourself.

You don't really care about the subject matter, because if you did it'd show. You care enough to repeatedly post here and condemn The Tonya (Long live The Tonya etc) but my guess is that its likely you've got some need to be right...and that because of that, you end up being wrong just...all the damn time. And if I come to Southie, its only going to be for the sex...because the amount of crazy coming off you...its going to be mind blowing!

I really couldn't tell you the truth in this matter, but I can say that I believe this movie should be necessary viewing for people that think they know what it is. Because damnit, no matter what the situation is, what the story is, the search for truth should be utmost in your list of priorities. Its all that really matters IMO. And people say, "Your truth", "My truth" etc, but there's also just the plain old truth. And you're only doing yourself a disservice if you don't use whatever abilities God gave you to try and figure out what that is as best you're able.
Go forward and do good works. And PM me your address. And what you thought of the movie (when are you going to see it?).

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Your opinion is not any more informed, and the whole fact that you keep pressuring people to see the movie indicates how little you know. The way you pursue truth is non-existent, and, without knowing you personally, your posts indicate that you are a no-good piece of trash, just like lots of other people who support Tonya Harding. I'm not interested in searching for what you consider the correct truth, because I disagree with you so intensely. I have just as much right to say what I want on this forum about Tonya, and I'll continue to do so. The fact that Tony Harding had the unmitigated gall to threaten to issue a $25, 000.00 fine to her long-time agent, Albert Rosenberg, or, for that matter, any journalist/reporter who asks her about her past is also quite disgusting, plus it's also a genuine indication of the kind of person she is; a greedy, arrogant, stupid, nasty little bitch, who doesn't deserve much sympathy, and won't get it from a lot of people, including myself, either. Tonya Harding's long-time agent, Albert Rosenberg walked out on her, and rightly so. Had I been in Albert Rosenberg's place, I would've said "Screw you!" and walked out on Tonya Harding, also.

Also, Jehosaphet, since I don't plan to see the movie "I, Tonya", and I don't know you personally, and don't like you, I will NOT email you my address. It's none of your goddamn fucking business where I live. I can't stand you, and I don't want to talk to you, either.

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Plus you shut up.

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No, Jehosaphet! YOU shut the fuck up!

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Nope, you shut the hell fuck upper up up!

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Nope...YOU shut the hell fucking upper up yourself, bitch-ass. You're a hate-monger who should crawl back under that rock of yours.

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Plenty of people who've had tough upbringings, have made sacrifices, have fought for and busted their humps to succeed in life, and who had lost childhoods don't engage in felonious behavior in order to get what they want or need. Tonya Harding's arrogance and total lack of shame is utterly sickening, which is why she hasn't received much sympathy.

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Why does anyone need to forgive her? This is a weird concept to me.

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I'm not so sure that anyone's asking anyone to forgive her...I haven't read the thread the entire way through though, is anyone?
I think what might be looked at is the judgment we were all throwing around back in the day, that its possible there's much less that needs forgiving than we may have ultimately been led to believe, and that it might even be us, the American people and press that needs to ask her for forgiveness. Yeah. Imagine that, huh??

Pretty far away from you thinking its in your power, or its your right to decide whether or not you're going to forgive her when you might want to take a look at how deep you dug in trying to see past all the hype; how quick you were to pass judgment and shake your head at someone that in truth, you really didn't know much about at all.

The more appropriate question just might be...is Tonya going to forgive you? And I don't know...only you could answer that honestly. But you can only hope so. You can only hope.

For Tonya!!

Okay not really, but still...

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I was responding specifically to StarWarsRey making this statement:

I really don't understand why anyone would forgive Tonya Harding...

Mostly because it's this kind of thinking that led to her, what's the term? Disbarment? From figure skating. Because of the press and then the viewers deciding what the truth was - and by that I mean what they wanted the truth to be. It's weird, man. Tonya Harding didn't do anything to anyone except possibly Nancy Kerrigan. And Nancy Kerrigan still went to the Olympics so...what even is Harding being forgiven for and who says it should be up to the public to ask for it?

That's the point I was making. And I agree - maybe Tonya Harding is the one owed an apology.

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I don't see that Tonya Harding is owed an apology, because she committed two rather serious crimes. She should consider herself damned lucky that she didn't go to prison for them.

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You might be right. But I don't think anyone except Kerrigan should expect to forgive or not forgive her for those crimes.

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Nancy Kerrigan has not really forgiven Tonya, and understandably so. Frankly, no matter what anybody thinks of Nancy Kerrigan as a person, I'd be pissed off at Tonya, too, if I were in Nancy Kerrigan's place.

The crimes that Tonya committed were:

A) co-conspiring to obstruct the investigation and prosecution of Jeff Gillooly and his henchmen, which she admitted to, in order to avoid a jail sentence

B) Not too, too long afterwards, Tonya made a totally unprovoked physical assault on Darren Silver (a now-ex-boyfriend or husband) with a hubcap, seriously injured him, and brought a police warrant down on her own head. When the USFSA seemed like they were about to allow Tonya back in to skate again, this is when that happened. The USFSA decided that Tonya presented too much of a danger to people's safety, and her fate regarding her figure-skating career was sealed; it was permanently destroyed.

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How many months have you been on here now Mplo? Seriously, how many posts on this have you made, you have any idea?
You're still going strong, still refusing to believe anything other than Tonya was absolutely implicit in the attack on Kerrigan and without a shred of proof other than a drunken fight Tonya got into years later.

You really are a judgmental piece of crap, you know that? I'm not saying Tonya's innocent, I don't know. But to be so utterly convinced as to repeatedly come here day after day and make sure that everyone knows that hey, Tonya's a piece of crap...kind of makes you look like a piece of crap. Get a hobby...do something to better yourself. Even if Tonya's guilty, she lost everything, she's paid.

You're so riled up at the notion of someone even believing the possibility that Tonya isn't 100% guilty that you've devoted pages and pages of text here, since November, I think. Jesus Christ you're fucked up.

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It's none of your goddamn business what I post here, Jehosaphet. Tonya Harding deserved to lose her career, due to the crimes that she committed, and I'm not backing down on my position. You're a fucked-up, judgmental piece of trash yourself, and you're nobody mixed with nothing. I have more interests and hobbies that YOU probably do, so just shut your fucking mouth.

You may think you're somebody, but you're a complete nobody mixed with nothing who knows nothing except how to insult people who don't agree with you. You're an extremely hateful, bigoted individual who'd do the late Boston School Committee/City Councilwoman, Louise Day Hicks, and all her supporters down in Southie and Charlestown, MA who rioted against the Federal District Court-mandated school busing edict that took Boston by storm beginning in the mid-1970's (a storm that lasted well into the 1980's) mighty, mighty proud.

If you don't know about the late Boston School Committee/City Council Woman Louise Day Hicks, and Boston's busing riots, do a google search. A goldmine of info awaits you there.

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Tonya Harding's half-baked apology to Nancy Kerrigan after she got hit on the leg and injured is complete bullshit. Tony said "I'm sorry I got involved with the wrong people, and for being in the wrong place at the wrong time."

Come on now! What the hell kind of an apology is THAT? That's a stupidly sad, sad joke, as this whole thing was!

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Hmm...it sounds like the kind of apology someone would make who WASN'T INVOLVED IN HAVING KERRIGAN KNEE-CAPPED!
I don't know...just my guess.

How weird to operate from your perspective.
"She's guilty, so I'm completely unwilling to entertain any notion or information etc that may dissuade me of being sure of that fact. And considering her guilt, how dare she not fully take responsibility for Nancy's pain, HOW DARE SHE. But that's exactly the kind of behavior you'd expect from a trailer trashy knee-bashy loser, so.....see how it all fits? Logic is for suckers! Haha I suck and need help ahaha no, really...been black-listed by the American Psychology Association, currently stuck in a bathtub..." etc.

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I disagree, Jehosaphet. Tonya Harding was clearly involved in the masterminding and planning of that whole sordid attack on Nancy Kerrigan, and the fact that she helped obstruct the investigation and prosecution of Jeff Gillooly and his henchmen is clear evidence of that, in my mind. I refuse to buy into her phony apology to Nancy Kerrigan. Tonya's apology saying that "she's sorry she was involved with the wrong people, at the wrong time." is a bullshit apology, and a sad joke, to boot, and you know what else? So are a lot of the people, including you, who support and sympathy with her.

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Tonya didn't do the whacking of Nancy Kerrigan's knee, but she needs to realize that she does bear some responsibility for that whole sordid incident. Taking responsibility for one's actions and behaviors and their consequences is the kind of behavior that's expected from any normal, decent person, which Tonya Harding is not. Moreover, Jehosaphet, YOU'RE not a normal decent person either, for that matter.

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Oh I'm sorry, yeah...good point! Very nice =]

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Oh, yes Tonya is asking people to forgive her! She doesn't know anything what.so.ever about taking responsibility for her own actions and behaviors. In HER eyes, it's always somebody else's fault. Tonya will invariably reap some money from the film, "I, Tonya", and I don't want any of MY money going towards that film, in any way or form. Take THAT, you retarded twerp!

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Crawl back into the darkness before I stake you. STAKE YOU!!

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Ha ha ha! Why don't YOU crawl back under that rock from where YOU came?

Come to think of it, Jehosephat, if you ever did come to Southie with those arrogant attitudes of yours, YOU'D more than likely get staked for sure, because your kind of arrogance would get short shrift down there, in NO time!

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That's fine and all - it's your money.

But I'm saying the whole idea of the public having to forgive her at all is very weird to me. Harding only owes one person an apology - Kerrigan. The public is not owed anything from her. If Harding is asking the public to forgive because the public thinks it is owed an apology, that's just weird. Like, people commit more serious crimes than this all the time, but I haven't offered my forgiveness to any one of those people and don't expect to anytime soon.

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Okay. Thank you for at least understanding that I have a different opinion on Tonya Harding than many, if not most people who've posted on this thread, Wint3rFir3.

Granted, people do commit serious crimes all the time, but when somebody has a career in the sports world, s/he has to realize that they can expect to be scrutinized much, much more by the general public than tons of other people.

I don't believe that the indictment of Tonya Harding has anything whatsoever to do with her class background. I'm just not into seeing a film about an athlete who has engaged in felonius behavior.

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the definition of Millennials seems to keep changing. As I see them, most of them are already in their mid 30s with the youngest ones halfway through college right now, yet TV and online articles keep portraying teenagers and as a part of that group.

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Kim Jong Un just happens to fall into the same age range, he surrounds himself with 50+ year old military sycophants not twenty-something hipsters

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You think Trump is better than Kim ?
Dude , ur country Nuked civilians in Hiroshima. Don't preach.

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"Yes, the USA dropped two Atomic bombs on civilians...who were building weapons of war and supporting their insane military. See how that works? Millions of Japanese lives were spared because of those two Atomic Bombs. The Japanese were ready to throw another 6 million dead bodies on the front lines of that war. Insane. You don't negotiate with rabid pack of wolves, you destroy them to teach the other packs a lesson."

The fact that you actually think like this shows me that you are a pos.

Yes, it stopped the war... Was it a fair price? Nope. If they would had dropped the bombs on military bases, I would see how it could be fair deal. But using excessive violence on innocent people against unrelated enemies is not a right move in any way.

Never would I agree that this incident was the right move to do.

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Millions of Japanese were seriously sickened, injured and killed when the United States dropped two nuclear bombs on Japan. Don't kid yourself.

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.... Yeah...? So....... Did I say something against this?

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Do you think American millennials and North Korean millennials are very similar?

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You think I'd kill my uncle and my brother?

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I am.

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You must live in an underground bunker in a tinfoil suit.

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How’d you know?

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They both want to destroy America, and think capitalism is poison and communism is great. Just take a look at Antifa and BLM. They share a lot of similarities.

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I can assure you I do not want to destroy America. I also don't think Leninism and Stalinism are great. I think Marxism is great, but Marxism is an essay. I think capitalism is fantastic when done right, like Brits and Canadians. I think socialism is good for education and healthcare.

To suggest all millennials is the same means you know nothing about world cultures and how they differ from each other.

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Another problem with millennials is that they seem to think any criticism of them as a generalization, is a criticism of them personally.

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Yes. That's true of hundreds of millions of people. All of whom you've met.

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I suppose I am defending my friends and myself. Everyone else is a hypothetical. That’s the point. You’re off your rocker. You’re actually insisting hundreds of millions of strangers want to kill their uncles. Your convinced.

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I’m not American. I’m Puerto Rican.

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I thought this whole thing was satire. I stopped being serious a while ago. Are you still serious? I really thought you were messing with me. I know nobody can think hundreds millions of strangers want to kill their uncles. Nobody can be that out of touch with reality. Do you even know the age of Millennials?

I guess if we're still being serious, I'll reassert that Weinstein and Harding are very different and that comparing them is unfair to both Weinstein's sexual harassment and rape victims and Nancy Kerrigan, a victim of assault and battery.

For the record, do you also have generalizations about Gen Xers and Baby Boomers? And are North Korean Baby Boomers and American Baby Boomers the same?

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Fix the typo so I can get some semblance of an idea of what you’re talking about.

If you’re using appropriate as a verb then you need an object because it’s transitive.

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Antifa and BLM share no similarities. If one lone assassin hadn't murdered those 5 police officers in Dallas nobody would have charged BLM with being a militant anti-cop group. That terrible night, thousands gathered to peacefully protest and did so, and one person took advantage of the situation and murdered 5 officers in cold blood.

I marched with BLM in Boston in 2016 and there was no violence. Police lined the sides of the street on bicycles, maintaining a quiet presence, and the march was completely without incident. BPD was great and protesters were great.

Antifa doesn't equal Millennial. Plenty of people over 35 are with Antifa. Plenty of Millennials voted for Trump. Plenty are registered Republicans.

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It was BLM that chanted "Pigs in a blanket, fry'em like bacon" and "What do we want? Dead cops! When do we want'em? Now!". It was also BLM that strong-armed the Toronto pride parade into submission preventing everyone from celebrating until they caved to their demands. Let's NOT pretend like BLM is a peaceful group. There are far too many examples of them behaving like a fascist cult. So please, spare me.

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That hasn't been my experience.

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Can you post a video of any of this? Or an article? (This is not to be combative; I would sincerely like to be better informed if what you say is true.)

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The people of BLM who chanted "Pigs in a blanket, fry'em like bacon." and "What do we want? Dead cops!" were definitely not in the majority. In fact, they were a small minority. Unfortunately, however, it doesn't take more than a (relatively) small minority of people like that to give a certain group or groups a bad name.

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Bull. It's a testament to how unorganized and unmotivated the group is to not even establish what their goals are. If BLM had that kind of structure and motive, they would know exactly what it is they wanted. Just like the civil rights movement. Or the suffragette movement. It was consistent. Unlike today where all you have to do is say you're X and miraculously expect yourself to be the poster child of the movement. It's like feminism. Anyone can be a feminist and have 'their own ideals' of what that means. Which means it can mean everything, and nothing at the same time. There's no structure.

Every time one feminist acts out of turn, all we get told is 'oh but #notall' and '#smallminority'. Every time a feminist does something good it's '#see?'. All of the good parts can be adopted, and all of the bad parts can be rejected on a whim. No different than religion every time the priest says that something good happening is a miracle or an act of god, but when something bad happens then it's 'god works in mysterious ways'.

So the BLM that chanted those hateful chants weren't in the majority, the BLM that held up the pride parade in Toronto weren't in the majority, the BLM that made several demands of white people weren't in the majority, The BLM that held up one of the busiest intersections in Toronto to protest an immigrant who didn't even bother to complete her immigration papers even after having a 5 year window weren't in the majority, but somehow we're just supposed to accept that despite all of this, the REAL BLM is a force for good? What good are the REAL BLM people doing then? I don't see them.

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While there are certain tactics that the BLM has resorted to that I strenuously and whole-heartedly disagree with (such as blocking traffic and causing people to risk losing their jobs, or getting sick/dying, due to being late to work or important medical appointments, for example, or even sitting in the middle of MBTA (Mass. Transit Bay Authority) train tracks, for example, I believe that the BLM has a very strong valid point to make: that Black lives matter just as much as white people's and cop's lives.)

Most of the people in the marches in NYC weren't chanting the disgusting "Pigs in a blanket, fry'em like bacon." and "What do we want? Dead cops.", but the ones who were are/were really disgusting.

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But that's not what they actually stand for, because they don't give a flying fuck about black lives if they're being taken by other black people. Just as they don't give a flying fuck about white cops killing if the people they're killing are other white people. The outrage only surfaces whenever it's a white cop killing a black person. That's the only time they come out of the woodwork. Is when they can race-bait their way across the street. Constantly looking for things to claim oppression over. Constantly dividing the people. Even prolific black men have said this.

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What you're saying is not altogether true, not_a_virus.exe, because blacks, especially young black males, often enough do have a history of coming into conflict with cops and other law-enforcement people for no good reason.

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They also have a history of getting killed by other black men for no good reason either. Look at the FBI statistics. Blacks make up 14 percent of the population and yet commit 50% of all crimes across the board. That's not something we can just ignore. And most of the victims of those crimes are by other black men. Why are blacks lives worth nothing when they are taken by other blacks, but are only lamented when they are taken by whites? Do we just ignore the forest fire for the sake of putting out the campfire? Let's get real.

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While it's true that black on black crime, especially by and against other young black men ranging in age from their late teens through their mid-30's has been rather rampant here in the United States, and I agree that it's not something to ignore, it's also true that many blacks are equally concerned about the high crime rates in their communities, march against it, and even voice their concern about it in the newspapers, in church, in community/social gatherings and meetings, on the TV, and on the radio.

The life of a black or other non-white person, whether it be taken at the hands of another black or other non-white person, or at the hands of cops, regardless of ethnicity or color (Black cops, too, have been known to abuse their power.), is worth just as much as the lives of you, me, and many other whites, and other people of color.

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Yes but the point is that the black communities speaking out against black on black crime, are not BLM. BLM doesn't concern themselves with the predators in their own backyard, the community does. So when you tell me that BLM 'fights the good fight', that's blatantly untrue. They fight any fight they can to get what they want. They aren't a force for good.

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No its not, its a testament to the right's ability to take a small group of people and generalize across an entire category.
Some people claim (most people, in fact) that these guys weren't even with BLM. But a group of a dozen or so people chanted some weird stuff and boom, the BLM movement = terrorist organization.

Its pretty messed up, if you ask me. And the examples you cite, them holding up a busy intersection, them protesting the right of someone who should have already gotten their crap together...it appears as if the well is pretty damn dry if you have to dig that deep to justify the "terrorists" label. Maybe its just me, but it seems pretty transparent and I'd have a hard time keeping a straight face in your place.

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When did I use the "terrorists" label?

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Oh, oops you're right. You just repeated the talking points given by people asked to explain WHY they label BLM a terrorist organization.

Hey to address your, "BLM isn't fighting the good fight" since they're not concerned about the predators in their own backyard? The black on black crime?
You see stuff like that all the time in the comment sections of news stories involving blacks.

"Where's BLM now, huh?"
Or a black guy gets killed in some gang violence, "Well you know BLM won't be showing up LOL".

The thing with black on black crime is...the people who are caught committing these crimes are punished for them accordingly...they're arrested and sent to prison, while a police officer who chokes an unarmed black person to death generally gets to go right back to work (after their extended paid vacation, anyway).

See, its more about accountability...so all the snarky comments about the murder rates in Chicago etc, they have nothing to do with anything IMO. Either people are just frigging incredible at missing the point or they're purposely missing the point in order to do their little part in trying to influence others, even if through deceit and misdirection.

People want people to hate BLM, and that's weird IMO. Black people can't give their kids toy guns to play with...isn't that a trip? They just can't...but BLM blocked an intersection once, they defended a guy who really didn't deserve it...these bastards need to be shut down!

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"Oh, oops you're right. You just repeated the talking points given by people asked to explain WHY they label BLM a terrorist organization. "

So you just go around assuming what people say without them saying it because OTHER people say the same things to questions you don't like?

"Hey to address your, "BLM isn't fighting the good fight" since they're not concerned about the predators in their own backyard? The black on black crime?
You see stuff like that all the time in the comment sections of news stories involving blacks."

"The thing with black on black crime is...the people who are caught committing these crimes are punished for them accordingly...they're arrested and sent to prison, while a police officer who chokes an unarmed black person to death generally gets an extended paid vacation before going right back to work again.
So its about accountability, and one of the above scenarios has it, while the other does not. "

What a load of horseshit. A lot of gangbangers killing in drivebys get away scott free with no justice served. Nothing from BLM about killers going free. Because it's not the biggest deal in the world when black murderers go free, it's only a big deal when white ones do.

"So all the comments talking about the murder rate in Chicago and "What about them BLM, HUH??" are just...frigging incredible at missing the point IMO. And I don't see how people can't get it, so my guess is that they're likely playing stupid in order to get in a couple cheap jabs, do their shitty little part in influencing others through deceit and misdirection. Just my opinion though."

They don't get it because the contradiction is glaring. And they're fed up of hearing bullshit like "they just don't get it" or "you've never been black so you don't know". No shit white people have never been black. Black people have never been white either so how the fuck do you think white people feel when they're constantly being beaten over the head about their "privilege"?

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"So you just go around assuming what people say without them saying it because OTHER people say the same things to questions you don't like?" You didn't read my response. There was nothing about questions I didn't like. I told you I've received that as a response to the question of why people label BLM as terrorists.
Asking why people label BLM terrorists is not a question I don't like. Please don't obfuscate. I made a mistake, didn't read the entire thread, thought you were one of those that labelled BLM terrorists, and my guess it that you do, but just haven't here. Not exactly as anonymous here as you would be in a comment section somewhere, so you're probably a little more subdued.

When black people who commit crimes are CAUGHT, they get justice. It doesn't matter how many go free because they're not a part of the dialogue as far as I've known, what matters is that justice is served when they are. That's not an argument, to say that well, hey...they should be protesting the black people who commit crimes and aren't caught...how silly is that?
You got a laundry list of other things you want then to protest so you'll allow them to protest the continual lack of justice for black killings? And who are you to define their movement for them, who are you to put up hoops?

And the problem with the last part of your argument there is that, even if you feel beat up by black people claiming that you "just don't get it", how has that affected you personally? How has that affected your life? The truth is, is that it hasn't...you know it and I know it. Its just a talking point for you.

White privilege is being able to be like that. Be outraged, albeit completely unaffected. The power dynamics between the races have you insulated, whether you like it or not, and its also the truth that you don't know what its like to be black. That's simply the case. Sorry?

But you tell me a single instance of how this has affected your life negatively and I'll concede the point. How has blacks claiming that you don't understand what its like to be black...how has that affected you personally? Your family? How has it made you suffer?

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Sounds like you're embarrassed that your traditional tactic of assuming the worst of the people you talk to online slipped out of your mouth. Not the most enlightening way to start a conversation. It could have easily been avoided had you just decided to read through the thread before impulse posting.

I'm not trying to define their movement for them, but the problem is that they haven't defined it either. They are a group that exists solely to revert a problem that they THINK exists, and care nothing for the contradictory evidence proving them wrong. How many times has Larry Elder been called an uncle tom for trying to contradict the narrative BLM spews? They don't actually want help. What they want is to exist for the sake of existing. They like the idea of being a freedom fighter in 2018, but don't actually want to do any work to organize themselves. Just protesting anything they possibly can even at the cost of destroying their integrity. you think holding up traffic is going to sway people to your cause? You think protesting an immigrant who didn't complete her papers is going to sway people to your cause. Give me a fucking break.

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Wow, you sure wrung some mileage out of that, didn't you? Le me ask you this...what's the damn difference? Okay, you didn't say they were terrorists...just that they were bad. Alright. So what? So how dare I not have realized that you didn't equate BLM with terrorists? What's the big deal if you had? Its common hyperbole, overused even, yet you're clutching your pearls like I accused you of being a terrorist yourself.
I apologized two posts for it, and you're still latched on, clinging to that goddamn handle...and its because you're full of shit and you know it.

You've got a pocket full of talking points that you're parroting from pundits/talk show hosts etc and you're just throw out generalizations based off some cherry-picked stuff you heard from someone trying to influence you.

Well I heard Jimmy pissed in your pool at your birthday party so, YOU HEAR THAT EVERYBODY!? Don't go to virus's parties on account of all the sewage flying around everywhere, someone's going to get hurt! A bunch of fecal debauchery going on at Virus's place!

Larry Elder...there's so much weird about you bringing him up in this that I don't even know where to start. He's a conservative talk show host that...do you think he's pretty firmly entrenched in black culture, ol' O.G. Larry? He'd probably be the first to admit he's not...so why should his opinion carry weight with BLM? Because he's black? Yeah, my guess is most people would just as soom kick him in the balls as look at him.

As to your other points...yeah, police in the US, regularly getting away with killing unarmed black people...pretty rough. But remember last September, when the traffic in Georgia got backed up along 49th for a couple hours? BLM is just out of control...pretty unorganized too, if you ask me.

Your priorities are fuckered imo, your logic sucks, any national organization is going to have the problems just by virtue of being an international organization.

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Because it's a common tactic that has allowed people like you to equate innocent people with obscenely destructive accusation. Consider how easy it is for someone to be accused of being a nazi now. Even thought they may not have said anything remotely racist or antisemitic in the slightest bit. perhaps that said that they don't want illegal immigrants crossing the border. And now they're being accused of racism. All because people like you are so liberal on the terminology that you choose to throw around that none of it means anything anymore. That's why. And all it would have taken is for you to just think about the words you're about to use before you speak.

Larry Elder grew up poor, and with an abusive father to boot. He didn't have an easy childhood. And he made something of himself. And now you're telling me that because he's conservative, and not stuck in the ghetto, that his opinion on BLM carrys no weight? See this is the problem with people like you. All black people are victims, until they;re not anymore. And then once they;re not anymore, they can't speak on black issues because they don't have to deal with them. EVEN THOUGH people like Elder are living PROOF that black people can fix their problems, it's still not good enough. Yours is a cesspit of selfpity and destruction and people are fed up with it. By your OWN VOLITION, black people dying is a serious crime, and yet this "movement" will take time out of everyone else's day to hold up traffic over a woman that couldn't be bothered to finish her papers? Tell me again that BLM's cause is just and not a complete mess. Complete and utter nonsense.

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You're doing the same thing you accuse me of. You trot out a conservative black radio show host as proof that see, this guy made it, what's wrong with those other guys?
While my point is that just because he's black, doesn't mean he understands the plight of your everyday black man. Your thinking that it automatically means it does says a lot though.

You're attributing a shitload more to me than I ever did to you...you got my motivation all figured out, huh? Are you always this quick to jump to conclusions? I'm betting so.
Victim-playing blacks...what good is being angry with them going to do? What do you hope to accomplish with that?
You see how the cycle has to stop somewhere? Sure, some of them do it, but again, you can't paint an entire sect of people with your generalizations.
And you'd have to have your head buried in the sand to not understand that theirs is a different reality than ours. But here you sit, completely ignorant of what it means to be black and yet...so pissed.

You understand that income for education is largely brought in from the property taxes of surrounding neighborhoods, right? So what happens to the funding when you live in the ghetto? What could you expect those schools to look like, those teachers to teach like?

You know that there really is a right and wrong side of the tracks, right? That different housing was mandated to different races, often with the railroad track used as a divider?

Sorry guy, but institutionalized racism exists...some people are more lucky than others, and just because you don't understand it or realize it doesn't mean its not true.

Oh and the words I attributed to you, if your arguments aligned with those of people who equate BLM with terrorists, who cares if you called them terrorists or not? I don't...

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No moron, HIS CHILDHOOD...which I have VERY CLEARLY OUTLINED for you...is proof that he understands the plight of the everyday black man. HE LIVED IT! You aren't even fucking listening to a word I'm saying. All you hear is me defending Elder because he's black, not the reasons why. It's like you can't even fathom the idea that I could defend a black man on his own merits for the things he says or the ideas he espouses. No. It's because Elder like all blacks are tokens for me to use just to prop myself up as a non-racist. Absolutely disgusting. People like you are kryptonite to progress.

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I'm saying that ALL circumstances are different and you can't point to one black man and say, "SEE! Everyone else is a bunch of whiners! He's a black guy...he made something of himself!"
Its the same generalizing bullshit.

Me pointing that out doesn't make me anything but objective.

Again, how does you being mad at the blacks claiming victimization help anything? Yeah, I'm kryptonite to your idea of progress, because you don't offer shit except more garbage to pile on the fire.

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Oh, is Elder not good enough? Would Oprah Winfrey do? How about Barack Obama? How about the entirety of the NFL and the NBA? What will it take to concede that black people aren't suffering? There are over 36 thousand black millionaires in America. Not good enough? Over half the the entire black population in America is AT LEAST middle class or higher. Still not good enough? Even if every single black person is a millionaire, it would only take one getting killed by a white officer for you to change your tune and roll back to "See?! Muh oppresshion"! "All successful blacks are only successful because they got lucky!" Nothing is ever good enough. It never will be. You, like BLM, use every opportunity to prove the world is out to get you. Stats mean nothing to you. Facts mean nothing to you. Reality means nothing to you. All you have is your victim complex and a world full of anger and resentment over nothing.

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Let me ask you this. WHAT FUCKING DIFFERENCE DOES IT MAKE? You don't have to be a suffering black person in order to want cops to have to face the same justice as everyone else.

Trot out all the famous black people you want, you're still trying to apply flawed logic. A .001% sampling is not representative of the entire black race in America, no matter how much you want it to.

You're pulling out everything you possibly can and you're throwing a lot of bullshit around in hopes it'll stick.

Look up Jim Crowe laws, understand them and many you'll understand how they still have an affect today. For someone so oblivious, you sure are fond of asking others to look at facts. My fact? You're a white dude, telling another white dude that blacks don't face any issue on account of being black. You're fucking insane if you think you've got a firm grasp on reality, my friend.

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Over 50% of the population doing well is not a .001% sampling, it's over 50%. No amount of data will convince you though. You've already conceded that. Nothing matters to you. You need the narrative of the oppressed black man to continue to thrive because you need a cause to belong to.

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You're a fucking tool, you know that? I disagree with your generalization and suddenly I'm someone who's propping themselves up as being not racist?
That's the whole point of my perspective to you, huh? Hey look at me, I'm not racist!

You fucking retard, I'm totally racist. I really am. Black people scare the shit out of me. But I'm also someone who tries to keep his eye on the endgame. And people like you, who think you understand the motivations of someone else (as you've demonstrated here repeatedly), THAT's what's fucked up IMO.

Someone disagrees with you and boom, that piece of shit is just trying prop himself up!
Fuck you dude. Really.

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I really must have struck a nerve in you for you to double post. You couldn't include this in your original reply? Everything I'm saying to you must be simmering in your mind. You know it's true. You know exactly the kind of hypocrite you are. And you hate it. Can't blame you.

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Oh and another thing I don't get. BLM is just trashed by the right, consistently...they're constantly referred to as terrorists, they just gotta go, they're out of control!
BLM is all about the police being held accountable...which, that's something we should all be getting behind IMO. There's nothing wrong with that and everything right IMO.

Some group of police officers was beating a homeless guy a couple years back, he was mentally ill, the guy...was generally pretty quiet unless he was talking to himself. And while he was getting beat to death by batons, the man was literally sobbing and pleading, crying out for his Father.
He's laying on the ground, surrounded by cops who are stomping on his head, beating, beating...its caught on tape, and every last one of them walks. This guy was no threat to anyone...Google it, and he was beat to death by thug cops.

And there's plenty of other stories like it, black or white, if people are getting killed by cops for no good reason, the police officers involved should face the same kind of justice that any of us would. Move them to a different precinct, with a DA they're not buddies with...whatever it takes. Maybe being held accountable will reduce the likelihood of this sort of stuff happening...which I think is pretty much the point of all the protesting to begin with.

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The problem you seem to be missing is that America has a POLICE BRUTALITY problem. Not a RACIST COP problem. You never seem to hear of the Asian cops that shoot impulsively do you? You never hear of BLM chanting against BLACK officers that are overly aggressive do you? Where was the outrage over the death of Freddie Gray after learning that THREE of the officers were black? It's never there. The only time BLM acts up is when it's a white officer that does the killing. When it's a black officer they don't give a fuck. Because it's not about justice for them. It's about the narrative. There's power in being a victim. And they thrive off it.

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If you agree that we have a police brutality problem, then what's the problem with the group that's trying to make sure its addressed? That they didn't protest when you thought that they should have?

There wouldn't be a narrative to thrive off of if there wasn't a narrative to feed. Chicken or egg, I don't care, but the end result is the same for me, and its results that I'm hoping for.
You don't like that they held up traffic, yeah well me neither, but I'm still behind them, I hope they get their shit together so they're that much more effective.

Not sure how its constructive to trash them as a collective, what it is that you hope to accomplish, but my guess is that you've just been sold a lot of indignation...because that's pretty much the hot commodity these days. And I'd be willing to bet that you haven't heard the full story.

Wait a second...you took one black guy being killed by black officers and pointed to it as proof that BLM doesn't give a fuck. I'm going to go read up about that and see if there's another side to that.

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"If you agree that we have a police brutality problem, then what's the problem with the group that's trying to make sure its addressed? That they didn't protest when you thought that they should have? "

YES!!!!!! Actions speak louder than words. When you only protest black deaths when they're committed by white officers, but don't give a flying fuck about them when they're committed by black officers, then how in the living hell do you expect that to relay to the rest of America? The sheer hypocrisy is just glaring.

"I don't like that they held up traffic either, but I'm still going to support this movement that keeps people from going to work everyday in retaliation for an immigrant than couldn't be bothered to finish her papers"

Great for you. I sure hope you do your damnedest to knock some sense into your little cult because no one else seems to be doing it.

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""I don't like that they held up traffic either, but I'm still going to support this movement that keeps people from going to work everyday in retaliation for an immigrant than couldn't be bothered to finish her papers"
You're purposely stupid, huh?
A national organization...some people hold up traffic somewhere and all of a sudden they're just a bunch of traffic blocking bastards...
Now we're just going in circles, you're just saying the same shit that I've already addressed.
You're always going to have issues with a national organization just by virtue of it being a national organization.

You having to cite a single instance of them blocking traffic and using it to paint the entire organization just shows how desperate you are for dirt, and therefore how utterly incapable of being objective you are.

How can you take seriously the words of someone who's so unable to assimilate information in a cohesive and fair fashion? Your perspective is fuckered, I was right to begin with. What a waste.

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Then why didn't the civil rights movement suffer this same problem? They were calculated and organized. They knew exactly what they were after and didn't stray from the point. Why was the suffragette movement so calculated and organized? They knew exactly what they were after and didn't stray form the point. But BLM? Modern day feminism? These new world liberal cults are the antithesis of organized. They have absolutely no desire to think about what they're fighting for. The protest nothing just to protest. They riot over nothing just to riot. That have no motive. No goals. No endgames. They exist just to feed on the high of parading around as a "freedom fighter".

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That's one big problem with protests; They can start out peacefully enough, but, unfortunately, all it takes is for one or more people to take full advantage of a situation, either by throwing a rock, or other missile at cops, spew off some rather inflammatory rhetoric, or pick a fight, etc., to turn a peaceful demonstration into a violent melee. That happened quite frequently during the late-1960's. Some of the people who did that were agents who'd been paid by the U. S. government to act as provocateurs to provoke violence and make legitimate causes/demonstrations look bad, while others who were not government agents, were just acting out aggressions and free spirits, if one gets the drift.

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How on Earth is she remotely comparable to Weinstein? You are making no sense.

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Multiple outrageous false equivalencies. Weinstein is a sexual predator who habitually used his power to abuse and coerce women. Harding was a bit coarse and acted nastily toward some people.

You are beyond hope if you think both were "violent toward women" in the same way.

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Harvey Weinstein was a disgusting, arrogant individual.

Tony Harding's also a disgusting, arrogant individual, for that matter.

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Oh, I see, you're one of those awful people who don't believe women who speak out against their abusers, thus helping to perpetuate a cycle of victim shaming that allows this shit to keep happening.

Like I said, beyond reason.

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[deleted]

LOL. Of course women can be abusers. But Harding is hardly one of the magnitude of Weinstein. This is just ridiculous.

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[deleted]

It is you who's ridiculous. You rebutted "women can abuse women" as if somebody had posted something to suggest otherwise when nobody had. Cathexis hasn't remotely defended Harding. Cathexis simply pointed out your false equivalencies. It's factually inaccurate to write as though Harding committed multiple abuses. She was tried for one crime. If you sincerely believe they're the same person then you completely misunderstand the systematic predatory behavior of Harvey Weinstein. He was a serial rapist. Harding was a serial nothing. And to be clear this is not a defense of Harding. I would simply like the distinction between somebody convicted of conspiring in an assault against a colleague and somebody who abused power for 30 years to rape and molest women to be made.

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[deleted]

Not my thread? Says somebody who undoubtedly rants about free speech and the PC millennials who want to take it away. I can participate in any conversation I want here. You're a fascist and a fool.

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[deleted]

Yes. I’m so self entitled. I believe I can participate in posts in a public forum.

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[deleted]

Mic drop.

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[deleted]

Yeah, I meant yours. I set mine down gently.

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Lol that exchange...you realized you were dealing with a crazy person, right?
Well done =D

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Thank you. When I signed up late last fall I didn't realize I could get into even more infuriating situations than I do on Facebook. Since January I've attempted to truly stick to movies. There are some even crazier exchanges with this individual. Happy reading!

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You're wrong about everything. Read something other than Ann Rand and Bill O'Reilly.

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[deleted]

I’m convinced that you’re fucking with me. If so, great job; you really had me. If not, you are nuts.

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[deleted]

I think when you're anti-rape and pro-logic spelling an obscure name wrong isn't a big deal.

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My mind is always in the gutter. Sigh.

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[deleted]

tonya is actually much worse than harvey . she had someone violent assault another person..... harvey took advantage of women who spread their legs for fortune and fame

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Disgusting. Incredibly tone deaf. And insensitive and hurtful. Weinstein spread their legs forcefully without consent on numerous occasions. You don't appear to understand what rape is.

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even worse, he'll be producing films himself in 2 years.

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and what is that? I'm surprised he ever made money.

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[deleted]

all shit films.

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[deleted]

LOL I love this comment!

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Goddangit, what'd it say? Looks like it was deleted.

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Bye, Tonya!

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Nah, Gen Z will be the money demographic by then and won’t pay to see that. They’ll more likely organize protests of it outside theaters.

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I would imagine so, if anyone wanted to make a movie from Weinstein's perspective. This movie was Harding’s opinion of what happened, not necessarily the truth.

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