I noticed the above words used as part of oath in the trial scenes. I could be wrong, but I've never heard them in a British court, only in Hollywood movies. Though only a minor point, this struck me as an example of shoddy research and writing.
shareAccording to Wikipedia, "so help me god" is part of the Oath of Allegiance to the Crown, so it's not entirely American.
Without seeing the court transcript, it's difficult to say that Christie didn't add it himself, even though it's not part of the standard oath.
In American courts, the oath is read to the witness and they answer "I do".
Just watched it again. It's definitely the American version of the oath.
Thank you. That's what I thought. Wonder if it was a slip-up or an inane attempt to make it more acceptable for American audiences? Either way they should have known better.
shareThey did know better, because there's a difference between an oath and an affirmation.
For the courts of England and Wales, as they're the ones in question, the Quaker Act of 1695 really does allow anyone to take a secular affirmation, and I'm talking about court affirmations and oaths here, not the act of allegiance to the Crown.
However, this being the 1950s, noone shan't generously forget the era the trials have taken place aka the height of the Red Scare. Take an affirmation in a country, that doesn't even have a separation of church and state, and your character is immediately being taken into question in the eyes of the court of public.
True, I couldn't read the actual transcripts as they haven't been digitalized (and I have a keen guess they won't be either to spare embarrassment to the court) but in context both John and Ethel taking an oath instead of an affirmation was just to show they're upstanding citizens.
I live in the Gordius Apartment Complex, my interior designer was M.C. Esher.
They used the "American" words but read it off a card, as in the UK. It's so obviously "wrong" that I wonder if they have actually done some research and found that a different form was used then?
The British oath is "I swear by Almighty God/Jehovah/Allah... (according to religious belief) that the evidence I shall give shall be the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth.". The affirmation is different.
https://www.nidirect.gov.uk/articles/giving-evidence-court
Coincidentally I re-watched a courtroom drama NEVER LOOK BACK released in 1952 which I'd reviewed on IMDb. A colourful character played by Brenda de Banzie concludes her oath with the 'so help me' bit, and the judge tells her "we're not on the American cinema"! I rest my case. Incidentally no-one in the Christie drama made a secular affirmation.
shareIt is confusing. Did the 1952 film use "Almighty God" AND "So Help Me God"?
I know it’s not the same as the oaths that witnesses take, but the oath of allegiance and the judicial oath seem to have changed over time.
According to Wikipedia:
The Victorian promissory oaths of allegiances, are set out in the Promissory Oaths Act 1868[2] in the following form:
• The original oath of allegiance as set out in the 1868 Oaths Act:
I, (Insert full name), do swear that I will be faithful and bear true allegiance to Her Majesty Queen Victoria, her heirs and successors, according to law. So help me God.
• The original judicial oath as set out in the 1868 Oaths Act:
I, (Insert full name), do swear that I will well and truly serve our Sovereign Lady Queen Victoria in the office of (Insert judicial office of), and I will do right to all manner of people after the laws and usages of this realm, without fear or favour, affection or illwill. So help me God.
According to the UK Government, these are the current versions:
Oath of allegiance
“I, _________ , do swear by Almighty God that I will be faithful and bear true allegiance to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth the Second, her heirs and successors, according to law.”
Judicial oath
“I, _________ , do swear by Almighty God that I will well and truly serve our Sovereign Lady Queen Elizabeth the Second in the office of ________ , and I will do right to all manner of people after the laws and usages of this realm, without fear or favour, affection or ill will.”
Found here:
https://www.judiciary.gov.uk/about-the-judiciary/the-judiciary-the-government-and-the-constitution/oaths/
In the latest versions, they’ve replaced “so help me god” with “by Almighty God” /”by Allah” etc. None of them use “solemnly swear”
No. In the 1952 film one witness mistakenly concludes the oath with "so help me God" and the judge corrects her. I am not disputing the phrase might be used in an oath of allegiance, just its use in a British criminal court, at least in modern history.
shareAgain, you're mixing up the two things, and did not bother to check the aforementioned link given by somebody else.
In a sworn testimony, as well as in 1952, as well as today, a witness can take an oath or an affirmation, and one teleplay script is by far not conclusive evidence, especially if it was written before it was released, I mean years before it was filmed.
Taking an oath instead of an affirmation was a pretext for good character. In the 1950s contesting the validity of organized faith was tantamount to being suspected of communism, in which aspect the British weren't that different, even if it's more common, that oath is being taken in American courts instead of English ones. The most likely scenario is, that the prosecution had asked them to act in such a way, as they were the same ones who pressed the issue of Christie being a completely innocent man. Judges have a big leeway in regards how they rule their courts, knowing in advance, that he was a devout Anglican helped their case a lot.
I agree, there is no addendum, like so help me god, but referring to the religious affiliation existed back then as it does now, so even in the movie and the teleplay, the judge criticized the unwanted addition, not the witness oath itself.
I live in the Gordius Apartment Complex, my interior designer was M.C. Esher.
"I agree there is no addendum like so help me god, but referring to the religious affiliation existed back then as it does now, so even in the movie and the teleplay, the judge criticized the unwanted addition, not the witness oath itself"
Exactly. That is the sole point I have made in this thread.
It isn't an addendum to an affirmation. The English oath uses "swear by Almighty God" instead of "So Help Me God" at the end. The American oath is also read to the witness, whereas in the UK, the witness reads the oath off a card.
It wouldn't make any sense at all to add "So Help Me God" at the end when they have already said "I do swear by Almighty God" at the start.
Also the hangman's "Any last words?" to Tim Evans, who was despatched, as they all were, in silence after than Pierrepoint's usual gentle urging to "Come with me, lad," or "Follow me" after he had pinioned his arms. Pierrepoint would have been sacked for asking that of a man standing on the drop. Speed was all. Likewise the priest sitting with Christie before his demise is also nonsense.
Film and TV take liberties with British hangings all the time. In "Let Him Have It" Derek Bentley is offered a tot of spirits by the hangman (IIRC). Quite why the efficient horror of a hanging needs these fictional touches is beyond me.
Yes it is nonsense. The film 10 Rillington Place accurately portrayed the hanging and it was dramatic enough. I don't think drama loses anything by being as accurate as possible.
shareIt's as if they put a lot of effort into the appearance but then just invented all the dialogue etc. e.g. they get the right type of noose etc but add the last words. They built a set of Rillington Place which clearly showed it to be a dead end, then have cars and pedestrians passing by! I did think that the oath was so obviously wrong that they must have access to the court transcript but I guess they just made everything up!
I checked "The Paradine Case" (1947), "Witness For The Prosecution" (1957 and 1982) and "Let Him Have It" and they all use the "British" version of the oath. However, the new BBC version of WFTP used the British version and added "So help Me God" at the end! (as well as "I swear by Almighty God"). How did they manage to get that wrong? They must have seen the film versions and the correct oath is available on the UK gov website...
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