MovieChat Forums > Vaxxed: From Cover-Up to Catastrophe (2017) Discussion > Wakefield is Bettelheim part 2

Wakefield is Bettelheim part 2

posted 8 years ago by shtexas
18 replies | jump to latest

Dr. Bettelheim and his crazy theory that mothers who reject their children caused autism did untold damage to parents and families of autistic children for decades. Trust me. I know. Bettelheim dies in 1990, and less than a decade later, in comes part 2 in Wakefield. Unfortunately, it took a decade to unravel his fraudulent work and untold damage has been done yet again. And, now disgraced, he makes a movie to further perpetuate that damage! The anecdotal stories are disturbing, but you need sound scientific studies. A child took an aspirin and died the next day. That does not mean the aspirin caused the death. Cause and effect, people. My mother and I had to endure the coming attraction for this film when we went to see another movie. It was very uncomfortable as memories of the Bettelheim nightmare returned.

And to see so much support for his work here is alarming.

[–] skb77 8 years ago

I understand your concern. I'm sorry you had to sit through a trailer for this movie after forming such an adverse opinion of Dr. Wakefield. But if you were to watch the film, you would be better equipped to comment on it. Dr. Wakefield did not tell mothers it was their fault their child was autistic. He simply said he saw a possible link between the MMR vaccine and autism and he said that more studies needed to be done. There is corruption in what happened to him after that statement. But this documentary isn't about Dr. Wakefield. It's about the CDC and a major whistleblower and documents of evidence about the autism trend and the vaccines. The whistleblower is the main idea here. Look at some of the posts here by doctors and previous pharmaceutical workers. People aren't being mindless, we are asking questions. Blind faith in these corporations is mindless. I've seen family after family endure the same experiences with their child after vaccines were administered. Society wants to tell those parents that they don't know what they witnessed in their own children. That it's all a coincidence. You don't have to be anti vaccine to question the validity of something that could potentially leave your child with a life long disability.

[–] CherriesOnTop 8 years ago

There is corruption in what happened to him after that statement. But this documentary isn't about Dr. Wakefield. It's about the CDC and a major whistleblower and documents of evidence about the autism trend and the vaccines. The whistleblower is the main idea here. Look at some of the posts here by doctors and previous pharmaceutical workers. People aren't being mindless, we are asking questions. Blind faith in these corporations is mindless. I've seen family after family endure the same experiences with their child after vaccines were administered. Society wants to tell those parents that they don't know what they witnessed in their own children. That it's all a coincidence. You don't have to be anti vaccine to question the validity of something that could potentially leave your child with a life long disability.

I will never understand how anyone could think that all these families are just making it up, when the symptoms show up right after the injections.

If anything, that sounds like the real crackpot "conspiracy theory".

[–] skb77 8 years ago

Well that is the saddest most insensitive sentiment I've ever heard. Why listen to the actual families? You go ahead and dismiss what you don't know and have never experienced. Vaccinate your babies, I don't care. But don't tell me to be a mindless puppet who doesn't question.

[–] CherriesOnTop 8 years ago

Of course we should listen to the families. I think you may have misunderstood me!

[–] skb77 8 years ago

Cherriesontop--- I'm sorry I'm misunderstood what you said. I thought you were the OP and saying that what I said was the true conspiracy. I take that back. I couldn't figure out how to delete the post!!

[–] CherriesOnTop 8 years ago

It's no problem! My heart goes out to all those who are suffering. It's terrible. It is NOT a coincidence. This is a real and horrible thing being done to innocent people that are trusting the wrong people.

[–] skb77 8 years ago

And I feel like one of the points made in the documentary that was so key, maybe even more key than the whisteblower, was how many stories from parents that are almost identical are out there. And nobody is listening to them. Making them feel crazy. I know many many families bc I have a nephew who went through it, he is 18 years old now. And back when he was diagnosed was when the epidemic started and I saw so many parents in the same fearful state. To discourage them by mocking what they know and experienced is just unbelievable. Society has made anyone who even questions the CDC and the pharmaceutical companies, the enemy and not only that but also stupid.

[–] amyrica-92563 8 years ago

I have a nephew who went through it, he is 18 years old now. And back when he was diagnosed was when the epidemic started and I saw so many parents in the same fearful state. To discourage them by mocking what they know and experienced is just unbelievable. Society has made anyone who even questions the CDC and the pharmaceutical companies, the enemy and not only that but also stupid.

I am very sorry for what has happened to your nephew. The naysayers are in denial and most of them don't even realize the pain they are causing or maybe some of them just don't care. But the majority of us do care.

In time, society will reach a new level of awareness. This film is just one of many.

[–] shtexas 8 years ago

That’s the thing. They were taken seriously. As Autism is in my family, I took it seriously. The paper was in The Lancet. The scientific and medical community across the world took it seriously. There is so much we don’t understand about the brain that when we can hone in on something specific, like the MMR or other vaccines, the scientific community jumps at that chance. There was study after study done. Doctors and scientists would have been thrilled to pinpoint a cause. After all, we are talking about children. Sympathies run high with kids. They tried to find a link. It took over a decade before Wakefield’s paper was retracted even though the science in his study was flawed. I don’t see a crusade or cover up against this. Too many organizations over different countries have been involved.

Don’t think I take this lightly either. Not only is autism a part of my direct family, but so is ALS, another illness the scientific and medical community does not understand. But, they do know there is some link between ALS and US military service. They have seen it across many different wars – WWII, Korea, Vietnam and even the Gulf War. They don’t know why, but they don’t discount it, and they are not trying to cover it up. They are studying it and trying to see – is it the stress of service? - is it environmental? - is it the shots? (sound familiar?). But, no one is covering it up. They are taking it seriously. It is only one cause of ALS, but one answer could lead to a great deal of knowledge. It is taken seriously. Same with autism. Defining one cause could lead to a great deal more.

So, I don’t see any big conspiracy to discredit Wakefield or poo-poo parents. Heck, the autism societies would have welcomed defining a cause – even if it was just one. Yet, even they go along with the scientific community and not Wakefield’s or conspiracy theories.

I am concerned about the well-being of children. What we do know is that Wakefield’s theory has caused harm to children. That upsets me. Many more children were not vaccinated thanks to him. We know that whooping cough, as one example, has gone from 2,500 cases in the 80’s to 50,000 this decade in the US. We know 14 children have died from it. Never mind all the measles outbreaks. Is polio next? It’s frightening. THAT is painful.

[–] random_guy2 8 years ago

They are not making it up, they just misunderstand (as many do) the difference between correlation and causation. Signs of autism begin to display around the same time as certain vaccines. That, along with Wakefield's fraud, have sadly convinced many parents desperate for an explanation that the MMR vaccine is to blame.

[–] SquidNewton 8 years ago

they just misunderstand (as many do) the difference between correlation and causation

Frankly I'm sick of the argument about correlation and causation and adverse events vs effects.

I guess it's like cigarette smoking and cancer, eh?

Do you know that there is actually no evidence today that fer sure proves that cigarette smoking causes lung cancer?

Yet if I asked YOU: Does cigarette smoking CAUSE Lung Cancer?
You would answer YES.
Am I right?

[–] Zwergin 8 years ago

Frankly I'm sick of the argument about correlation and causation and adverse events vs effects.

I am sure you are. It really is a problem when one wants to interpret data they way they like it and create epidemic levels of something.

[–] SquidNewton 8 years ago

I am sure you are. It really is a problem when one wants to interpret data they way they like it and create epidemic levels of something.

Shyte by any name will still stink.

[–] Zwergin 8 years ago

That maybe so but just because you call something thus doesn't make it so and it won't start stinking just because of that.

[–] jesusofjonesboro 8 years ago

Your post is nothing but a simple-minded lie. Have you watched this film? If not, you have no business commenting on it.

Signs of autism begin to display around the same time as certain vaccines.

The documentary makes it quite clear that the symptoms of Isolated Autism appeared only AFTER - not at the same time as - the MMR vaccinations.

The film also shows that comparatives studies of vaccinated versus non-vaccinated children virtually proved the MMR- Isolated Autism link.

Also, Wakefield committed no fraud but you have.

jj

"Is there anything I can do to undo what I've done"

[–] kendra-51 7 years ago

Sequence does not necessarily prove causation, especially since many children get these vaccines and don't get autism afterwards.

[–] SquidNewton 7 years ago

Millions of people smoke cigarettes.
Not every smoker gets cancer.

[–] Zwergin 7 years ago

But at least for that there is a plausible mechanism and a visibly increased risk.