MovieChat Forums > Conviction (2016) Discussion > The Death Penalty--My Thoughts

The Death Penalty--My Thoughts


I am a conservative and a Catholic, just to let you know where I'm coming from. Last night's episode let us know what is wrong with the death penalty, as an innocent man was executed. You can't give someone's life back to him and, as this might make his ex-wife and son feel better to learn that he was innocent and perhaps they can get back some of the money they lost on a wrongful conviction/wrongful death lawsuit, it really does little good after the fact.

That being said, I still feel that there are situations which call for the death penalty. I believe that one reason would be multiple murders, both for serial killers and mass murderers. I believe murders which involve torture and/or rape could be grounds for execution. Murder of a kidnap victim, especially of a child, is another. Murder of a law enforcement officer is another possible grounds.

Although Tom did lose his life, he was the only victim and the murder was relatively quick and painless. In my opinion the penalty should have been life in prison, not execution.

Boo Hoo! Let me wipe away the tears with my PLASTIC hand!--Lindsey McDonald (Angel)

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I am not religious so religion has nothing to do with my views, just saying. I agree with what you said concerning the situations that should call for the death penalty.

I also think ANY 1st degree murder where there is absolutely no doubt, the death penalty should be the sentence handed down. Multiple eyewitnesses, solid DNA evidence, confession, or video, etc..

Pretty easy to tell which murders fit that scenario. The case that was on the show surely didn't call for the death sentence. Really don't even see how he was convicted. He had threatened the guy in the past and then the guy got killed 2 weeks after he was out of jail. That's not enough to convict someone. No gun, no DNA, no witness, wasn't seen with the victim, no paper trail, phone records, nothing.

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The problem is that it isn't actually so easy to tell who for sure "deserves" it. Who is to be the arbiter? Clearly there are so many things that can go wrong and lead to a guilty verdict erroneously. There are so many moving parts and people are fallible, even if they have the best intentions. All you have to do is is take a look at the police and prosecutor's reactions when a person they convinced is proven absolutely not guilty after sentencing. I cannot count the number of times I have heard prosecutors and cops still insist they got the right man. They will even change the entire theory of the crime, suddenly deciding that there MUST have been two perpetrators instead of one when DNA clears their "guilty" suspect.

It is also impossible to correctly adjust for biases like poverty or race. Even in much less serious crimes than would get someone the death penalty we have much higher incarceration rates for different groups of people, even when the same crime is committed.

In my opinion, in order to be just the absolute minimum requirement in capital cases is infallibility. Since that is not possible and the death penalty is non-revokable it should be abolished.

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In this country, I don't believe in the death penalty for any crime. Period.

We have the ability to keep people imprisoned for the rest of their life. If we don't house known murderers in a manner where they cannot kill again, that's on us.

The only way I believe in government sanctioned execution of prisoners is if the society is either nomadic or doesn't have prisons. (I was reading a book about the history of Imperial Japan and was surprised to learn they didn't have prisons.) If your society doesn't have the ability to keep dangerous criminal incarcerated, then I could sanction executions as you endanger your citizens by releasing them and the citizens of other lands by exiling them.

But in the United States of America, that's not an issue for us. We have prisons, plenty of them. Enough of them that we lock up more of our population than any other country in the world.

You claim you're a Catholic. Then let me remind you and every other person reading this who claims to be a Christian of these instructions from your Lord and Savior..........

Luke, Chapter 6

35 "But love your enemies, do good to them, and lend to them without expecting to get anything back. Then your reward will be great, and you will be children of the Most High, because he is kind to the ungrateful and wicked. 36 Be merciful, just as your Father is merciful.

37 “Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven. 38 Give, and it will be given to you. A good measure, pressed down, shaken together and running over, will be poured into your lap. For with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.”


No one said being a Christian was supposed to be easy. But it is the moral creed you volunteered to follow.

And Jesus gives you fair warning of what will happen to you if you proclaim he's your Lord and don't do what he says. That ends in your destruction.........

46 “Why do you call me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ and do not do what I say? 47 As for everyone who comes to me and hears my words and puts them into practice, I will show you what they are like. 48 They are like a man building a house, who dug down deep and laid the foundation on rock. When a flood came, the torrent struck that house but could not shake it, because it was well built. 49 But the one who hears my words and does not put them into practice is like a man who built a house on the ground without a foundation. The moment the torrent struck that house, it collapsed and its destruction was complete.”

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"Jesus" supported the death penalty since he taught the Law of Moses. His judgement comment was about hypocrisy not "never judge anyone "

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Then let me remind you and every other person reading this who claims to be a Christian of these instructions from your Lord and Savior..........

37 “Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven. 38 Give, and it will be given to you. A good measure, pressed down, shaken together and running over, will be poured into your lap. For with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.”

Disagree with your interpretation. Using that basis for living, we'd judge no one as a society, so people could do as they please with no consequences. That was tried a long time ago in Israel (Judges 21:25 "In those days Israel had no king; everyone did as they saw fit"), and God subsequently established kings over Israel.

In the New Testament, Paul wrote about government and obedience to laws of man in Romans 13 (emphasis added):
Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2 Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. 3 For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and you will be commended. 4 For the one in authority is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for rulers do not bear the sword for no reason. They are God’s servants, agents of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. 5 Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also as a matter of conscience.


My POV as a Christian is that there are consequences for actions in this world. It's admittedly biased since I worked in law enforcement for a long time, which usually keeps me off juries.

Ignoring politics doesn't mean politics will ignore you.
-Pericles paraphrased in <100 characters

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Yes, because words from some follower are more important than the words from your God's own mouth.

I love the way you Christians claim that Jesus Christ is your Lord and Savior, but then don't bother to do what he specifically told you to do.

If you're right and he really is your Lord and Savior, Judgment Day's going to be fun to watch as he confronts you with all of that.

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Yes, because words from some follower are more important than the words from your God's own mouth.

Well that particular follower wrote most of the New Testament, and the Bible is the inspired word of God. There is a conflict between two passages. What should we do? I think what is fundamentally misunderstood here is that there are two judgements involved- one is God's at the end of life, while the other is man's during life. God does not judge people while they are alive, and man cannot judge people when they are dead- the rapist killed while committing the crime will not do time in prison. This topic involved the judgement of man, specifically the death penalty.

I love the way you Christians claim that Jesus Christ is your Lord and Savior, but then don't bother to do what he specifically told you to do.

You have an odd way of expressing love. 
If this world were filled with perfect people, there'd be no need for a savior, or a heaven.

You can take the Bible literally, as fundamentalists do, or you can apply common sense to it. Here's another example:
Literal: You can't kill anyone for any reason. Basis: Thou shalt not kill (or more correctly murder), Exodus 20:13.

Note that in other parts of the same Mosaic Covenant in the same book of Exodus, people were to be put to death for certain offenses. There was a conflict. What should they have done?

Common sense: A female is alone at home when a male breaks in to rape and kill her. Both God's law (such as in Exodus 22:2) and man's law say she is justified in using force to defend herself, to include deadly force.

Law without common sense is impractical. Suppose a law said every motor vehicle must have a windshield wiper. Everyone riding a motorcycle is now in violation.

If you're right and he really is your Lord and Savior, Judgment Day's going to be fun to watch as he confronts you with all of that.

Avoiding God's judgement is similar to being charged with numerous crimes, and then having someone else take the punishment. That's what Jesus did on the cross, which is the basis of Christianity.

If you don't believe any of this, it's your right to do so. You may even consider it foolishness, which again is your right and was also written about by that same follower (1 Corinthians 1:18 and 23, also 2 Corinthians 2:14). Doing the latter is actually stylish in modern America, so you'll have lots of company.


Ignoring politics doesn't mean politics will ignore you.
-Pericles paraphrased in <100 characters

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Read the Bible, the Law of Moses about death penalty

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As I responded elsewhere, the problem is that the system is made up of people and we are all fallible. It is extremely common for DAs and cops to still insist they got their man after he is cleared based on DNA or even the confession of the real killer. Unless we have a completely perfect machine, with no biases of any kind analyzing the cases and deciding, there is always room for mistakes. As you said, we can't take an execution back and since we have a prison system that can adequately deal with horrible criminals by putting them behind bars forever, why even take the chance of a single wrongful execution?

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The problem is unfortunately deeper than that. Up until 2005, for almost 4 decades, America was a partner in the Vienna Accords on Consular Relations.

This states, that when a foreigner is arrested in a country, and charged with a crime, authorities are automatically obligated to inform their respective embassy or consulate the second the suspect is arraigned. It also says, that the second they're arrested, they enjoy the protection of the constitution of the country they were arrested in, and the one they're coming from. It states further, that an arrest cannot happen, or isn't lawful, if the crime isn't a crime in the country they're coming from. For example, public drunkenness might be, but private drinking isn't. When it comes to capitol offense, like murder, it states the highest punishment cannot be lethal, if either countries don't have a death penalty.

While most foreigners executed in America were Latin American Hispanics, and guilt was established, the corruption happened by informing their consulates after they were executed. This isn't a problem anymore. Ever since they stepped out of the accord, they can convict and execute anyone they like, at times based on an eyewitness testimony. The problem with that is glaring, and came to a head when that frat boy was convicted in North Korea, it means nobody else has to cooperate either.

As for adequately dealing... if it existed in a fictional drama it did, the real one is far from it. Judges run for reelection based on conviction rate, as do district attorneys, so mandatory minimum and private prisons were gift wrapped to supply bias. On the other hand, overcrowding leads to early releases or suspended sentences, and public defenders have 7 minutes for a client. Dostoevsky said, you can measure how civilized a country is by the number of convicts they hold, and currently the American prison system has more, than China. To be fair, China has 65 different capitol offenses that warrant the death penalty, including selling rotten produce, but that doesn't give a free pass. An additional problem, referenced in the show is the status of the mentally ill and challenged people. If prisons could run ads, it would say: "Your state cut funding for halfway houses and mental health clinics? Do you suffer from the burden of not having time and skills required for your relatives? At a 24/7 facility we can provide accommodation for these people, even if they can't understand why they are in, and can't leave. To combat frustration and violent outbursts, our specialists in riot gear will calm them down, and put them away in solitary confinement". Unfortunately that's happening, including tazing mentally ill patients despite manufacturer warning to never use it on them.

Based on these things, I'm not at all surprised, that they don't care who they execute. The horrible criminals are the ones, who are incapable of remorse, and toy with the emotions of survivors. Executing them is actually doing a favor, as that enshrines them in the eyes of their followers. Christopher Harper-Mercer committed suicide after he killed people, he was a white supremacist, a misogynist, and antisocial, and he frequented a board, where the users called Elliott Rodger a saint for what he did on all men's behalf in Santa Barbara. Execution, suicide or suicide by cop only emboldens them, and creates more problems, than it solves.

I live in the Gordius Apartment Complex, my interior designer was M.C. Escher.

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