MovieChat Forums > The Exorcist (2016) Discussion > Question about possessions

Question about possessions

posted 8 years ago by david-3444
17 replies | jump to latest

So, "Christians" want us to believe that invisible, magical entities can possess humans and make them do all sorts of stuff they would never otherwise do. OK. Seems ridiculous to anyone with a brain, but let's say it really does happen, just for the sake of argument.

I've seen a lot of these movies, read a few of the books. In every one, they use prayers and passages from the Bible to cast out the demon. That would make sense if the demons are Christian (specifically Catholic) demons, but not so much if the demons are some other religion, like maybe a Native American demon.

What I'm having trouble understanding is the part where the exorcists have to recite the same words over and over. They tell the demon to get out hundreds of times, sometimes. "The power of Christ compels you," and so forth. Over and over and over.

If calling on God or Jesus the first time isn't enough to get the job done, then doesn't that mean that it won't be strong enough to get the job done the 600th time? Why is it that these things get repeated 599 times with no success, but then one more time does the job? Are the priests actually just annoying the demon so much that it eventually leaves of its own free will, with God having played no part in it?

Just trying to understand the logic of all this. "Christians" are great at coming up with excuses as to why things happen, so I'd like to hear some apologetics-type explanations for this.

[–] blahblahblah91 8 years ago

Another point to add, if the devil does exist and waits for fresh bodies to possess, why aren't more of us non believers possessed?

[–] stephiemc-37332 8 years ago

Because you already lack faith. It is thought that the reason why people are possessed is to break them down, break their faith and the faith of those around them,

[–] LetThemEatCake01 8 years ago

It's impossible to discuss these things with cynical atheists but, according to the bible, words have power. God says I am the verb, and his name is I Am, in other words, when you use the words I am you are in fact calling on God, and should never be used in the negative. Furthermore we can actually declare things with our words. It is no coincidence that a person says I hope you die to another and then that person in fact dies. And it's not only in the Bible, the Secret fad is all about the power of words. You may choose to believe it or not but that is what works with the exorcism, the demon is allergic to the energy of words and what they mean, hence why it is driven out.

[–] WeAintFoundShin 8 years ago

It is no coincidence that a person says I hope you die to another and then that person in fact dies.

Over ten years ago someone told me they hoped I'd die.

It's a long gestating curse, but it'll pay off, alright!

[–] LetThemEatCake01 8 years ago

That's fine.

[–] david-3444 8 years ago

Furthermore we can actually declare things with our words. It is no coincidence that a person says I hope you die to another and then that person in fact dies.

OK. My words: You are an atheist. You no longer believe in God.

Since you are obviously less powerful (and intelligent) than a demon, then you are COMPLETELY powerless to resist. Bam -- you're an atheist now.

Ha ha ha ha ha.

I think LetThemEatCake01 is a little confused. What you've described is The Force. It's how Obi-Wan confused the Stormtroopers. I'm not surprised that a "Christian" wouldn't know the difference, though.

[–] LetThemEatCake01 8 years ago

Whatever.

[–] TakeUpReel 8 years ago

It is no coincidence that a person says I hope you die to another and then that person in fact dies.

Eventually, everyone dies, so this is meaningless.

I would be more impressed if someone says, "I hope you never die!"...and they never do.

--
If vampires hate "plus signs" - imagine how they feel about the "square root" symbol.

[–] LetThemEatCake01 8 years ago

that's just silly.

[–] TakeUpReel 8 years ago

You're right! Saying words and having things happen....just because you said the words - is silly.

But, just to be sure, I just said out loud: "I hope 'LetThemEatCake01' receives $US 100 Billion, by noon on September 16, 2016 (in his/her local time zone)." You're welcome! BTW, I'm expecting a 10% finders fee! :)

--
If vampires hate "plus signs" - imagine how they feel about the "square root" symbol.

[–] FreewheelinVertigo 8 years ago

I know only basic facts about main religions, although a bit interested in various mythologies sometime, but I think the thing many of these films get "wrong" is that you need a demon's name to cast it out. The guy above said the words had power, and he's right. But theology tells us that name is very powerful by itself, see the Egyptian belief that a person's soul can be denied otherworld (heaven) because their name isn't mentioned on their tomb's walls, their sarcophagus etc. Gods simply wouldn't accept you if they didn't know your name, aka who you were (think VIP party velvet rope).

So tl;dr: the Christian exorcism usually works in real life (or so we're told, depending on our beliefs or a lack of) when an exorcist finds out the demon's name. That's why it takes so long. Priests spend a lot of time trying to trick a demon to give up its name, or it mentions its name at some point out of vanity etc. I think some films do have this kind of research where we see how people study certain behaviour or signs, go to a library and find a demon's name in some book, though.

[–] Dr_Cthulhu 8 years ago

First of all, it's not only Christians who believe in demonic possession - many other religions also recognize it as a reality and offer rituals for driving off the evil spirits. Recently, for example, school children in predominantly Muslim Malaysia were afflicted by this strange phenomenon. There are Jewish rabbis and Hindu priests who also practice exorcisms.

A Catholic exorcism is a struggle. The prayers and the sprinkling of holy water inflict pain on the demon. At some point, the spirit can no longer take it and departs - but this can take quite a bit of time.

Personally, I'm skeptical about a lot of the cases of possession, but I remain open-minded about it. The recent case in Indiana, for example, where the phenomenon was observed by a social worker and several police officers, seems authentic.

"I can't lie to you about your chances, but you have my sympathies."

[–] kurt-2000 8 years ago

"Christians" want us to believe

Right out of the starting gate that's incorrect. I've talked to many Christians in my lifetime, and they've stated you're free to believe what you want. Not all of them are pushy.

Except the ones that ring my doorbell.

And they actually kind of scare me.

[–] maryrosenkranz 8 years ago

Actually a lot of us Christians don't know the why. That is what faith is for. But faith can be hard to hold unto in many circumstances. Sorry we don't believe we have all the answers, nor do all of us have excuses. I do know I get really tired of people who like to group people into these categories. We are all individuals first & foremost. If an individual, who happens to be Christian, fed you all this, go at that individual. Do not claim all Christians are alike.

Also, to pretty much call someone an idiot, because they believe in something that one cannot not see is not exactly smart. There is a whole lot out there in this universe & the next none of us can see. Does that mean it doesn't exist? You know there is a lot doctors & scientists still don't know about the brain. The very thing that is in all of us. Now I'm not saying I believe there are demons who can enter a human's body. But I do know there's an awful lot of really horrible, bad people out there. To some that is evil.

[–] ehaas-3 8 years ago

Also, to pretty much call someone an idiot, because they believe in something that one cannot not see is not exactly smart

I agree.

Actually a lot of us Christians don't know the why. That is what faith is for...

While not a Christian (at least as defined by creeds), I've actually heard a small number of answers in reading about this phenomenon and talking to believers.

1. Similar to the cut scenes in The Exorcist (derived from dialogue in the novel), demons may simply like to torment people and will do so if they get an opportunity. It looks like it would be a waste of their time, but a being motivated by intense hate isn't rational.

2. The late Malachi Martin, controversial priest and promoter of greater awareness of demonic possession, had an idea that demons seek out people with the intention of the person becoming dominated by them and used to do their will while thinking that they are simply doing what they want (or in some cases, maybe being aware of the demon and seeing it as a guide they willingly accept.

People who are generally thought of as possessed are ones who are resisting at least to some extent and are thus tortured by the demon inside them in an attempt to control them. People who have been completely taken over without any resistance are in a state of what he calls "perfect possession" and would not show the common signs.

These are the two I can think of right off. I know I've heard at least a couple more.

[–] TerryRome01 8 years ago

I'm allergic to LetThemEatCake, but I hate to admit that I agree with him.
It's not as simple as "I hope you die", no. But, I agree with the so described 'energy' of the words.
The reason it is repeated over and over again is to literally call on God in that moment and the repetition in itself is a resolve (over and over) of those participating in the exorcism. Therefore you are proving your faith in the power of God.

[–] reffer0877 8 years ago

In at least the catholic religion, the possessed have to meet certain criteria before an exorcism can be granted. This after any mental illness has been ruled out. An exorcist is powerless on his own. He has to exert Gods authority, (hence repetition) and he can only act as a representative. He has no power except Through Jesus Christ to cast out the spirits. Just as demons use psychological tactics to instill terror in us, repeated attacks to the invading spirit work in a similar way, granting that a demon has a psyche lol. Procuring its name essentially strips its power, depending on how powerful it is. Demons have a hierarchy just as angels do. In Peter Blattys version, the name is never asked for, which could be why it was so difficult to remove it, and also because Regan had invited it in by messing with a Ouija board. It only left Regan when Karras told it to "come into me!" A very good example for for the stages of exorcism (as outlined by Malachai Martin) and procuring the name is the movie "deliver us from evil with Eric Bana.