MovieChat Forums > Mindhunter (2017) Discussion > Jonathan Groff is not convincing as a st...

Jonathan Groff is not convincing as a straight guy


I couldn't buy his character. Something felt seriously off - it didn't fit. After finding out he was in fact gay, it all made sense.

I'm not saying gay people shouldn't play straight characters, but this guy was simply badly casted. Also, the bar conversation between him and Debbie in the first episode was some of the worst writing/acting I've seen, especially for a "lauded" TV show.

It actually amazes me that Fincher is so involved because it is quite dull. Did not capture my attention at all.

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The entire show did not capture your attention??


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I suppose so.

Some people are so conflicted and frustrated about their own sexuality that they can't stand anything or anyone they perceive to be homosexual. It's like a very deep seeded fear.

It also blew my mind learning he's gay. I had no idea until reading this post. I love the subtleties in his acting. His mannerisms and control of his facial muscles. He did a great job.

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Uhm... the question wasn't for you. Especially since your assessment of Groff's performance couldn't be more different from the OP's.


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Lol. I'd have to be a literal moron to assume the question was for me. I wasn't answering for me, I was sarcastically answering for them. In the first paragraph, anyway.

I was on your side for my reply. You're a tough one, eh? Whether someone disagrees, or agrees with you you seem to have something to say about it.

If you don't want people to see or reply to things you post in public forums, you should sent private messages or emails instead.

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So you didn't care for the show overall because some people are so conflicted about their own sexuality??

I don't understand what you were responding to.


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I love the show. Seen season one 5 times and season 2, twice.
OP said he couldn't get into it because he's a homophobe. I said most homophobes are that way because of thier own inner struggle.

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No he didn't say anything like that at all. Nothing in the OP's post had anything to do with homophobia, whatever you imagine that to mean.

OP said the gay actor was not convincing in the role of a straight character. He also was not even saying gays should not play the roles of straights. Just that this particular actor was a bad choice because his homosexuality carried through to the character.

I'm sure if the situation was reversed and the character was supposed to be gay and was played by a straight actor, you would wholeheartedly agree that a heterosexual actor was absolutely wrong for the role and you would wish a gay actor had been cast instead.

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I personally would say it's not that he isn't convincing as straight, it's that he doesn't come across as someone capable of lust, period. He is just so earnest all the time, in season 2 at least I couldn't see him as a sexual being at all.


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Who cares if the actor's gay? I already knew that before seeing the show. I think the character himself is more old-fashioned and uptight when it comes to his sexuality, and meeting this woman who's really comfortable with hers loosens him up a bit. However being exposed more and more to the messed-up issues of the creeps he has to interview definitely screwed with his head. I can't wait to see season 2, though.

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I don't think your reply was meant for me - I was not the one complaining.


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Well said and so very true. 👍

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OP is certainly a homophobe

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Sorry, don't see it. If someone thought a straight actor should not play a gay character because their heterosexual persona showed through, would the objector be a heterophobe?

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Watched Season 1 5 times? Ooooffff. The show is decent but there’s a ton of slow boring parts in both seasons. That sounds dreadful

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"Lol. I'd have to be a literal moron to assume the question was for me. "

Actually, you are. Only a literal moron would make such moronic assumptions about the OP.

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Another idiot that thinks the world is trying to burn gays in the village square.

The OP simply stated that the actor didn't seem quite right, a feeling he had before he learned the actor was gay. So his assessment that he didn't seem right for the part happened before he was known to be gay. The reality is some people that are gay show it as if they were wearing a neon sign, others don't. If a character in a show is supposed to be straight then it really wouldn't make any sense to get an actor that is flaming bright than a star now would it? Frankly if a gay actor can't convincingly come off as straight in a role it really just highlights their lack of acting ability. I've seen other shows where the actors didn't seem right for the part because they seem gay in a straight role and when you find out they were really gay you realize they just weren't good at acting. That show White Collar was another example where the main actor seemed gay yet was supposed to be straight, I had no clue he was actually gay when I watched a few episodes but he sure seemed gay which made it difficult to believe when he was supposed to be interest in a girl.

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Oh come on. What is the subject line of the OP?

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It reads "Jonathan Groff is not convincing as a straight guy"

Where is the homophobia in that? It's just an observation. Like if I said "Mickey Rooney in Breakfast at Tiffany's was not convincing as a Japanese guy".

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I suggest you'll be a much happier person if you stop trying to read things into comments and just stick with what is actually written. You can always try to find hidden meanings in anything you read, but most of the time all you are doing is allowing your own thoughts and beliefs to create things that are all to often not actually there. If someone says that don't like Denzel Washington in a movie I don't say, "well they don't like blacks"... it is quite possible they just didn't like his performance. In this case the actor doesn't manage to pull off a convincing portrayal of a straight man. There is no crime in that, some gay men have been very convincing as straight men in movies other haven't. Pointing out the failure of a gay man to pull off acting as a straight man isn't homophobic it is just reality. If you can't understand that and fail to see how this actor is failing to pull off acting like a straight character could it be because you are gay and therefore blind to what straight people see? I mean you like to read things into what people write, that's what comes across from everything you've said so far...

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That's so weird. I watched only a few episodes of the first season and also felt something was "off" about the lead actor but I didn't suspect he was homosexual. I just felt he came across as bland, also lacked charisma and screen presence in general but especially in his "romantic" scenes with the actress. I found him to be so bland that I lost interest in the show after a few episodes and unfortunately even the later inclusion of Holt McCallany (who I like) couldn't keep me watching.

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Season 2 is a lot better, no scenes with his girlfriend.

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I was wondering what his deal was. Something is very off with this actor and his portrayal of Holden. He’s easily the weakest link on the show in terms of acting chops.

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I’ve been watching this show since the first season, & always thinking to myself - this guy is just not right for this role. Forgot about that until I began watching season 2, and now I’m here. Glad to see I’m not the only one.

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Yes, there's something weak about his characterization. It's like he lacks the passion and intensity that everyone around him seems to see in him. They attribute him with traits that just aren't visible for the audience..
He should be showing us rather than them telling us what he's about..

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Totally agree. I have to hear from other characters explanations to understand what’s going on.. In fact that’s a problem that stems further than just the main actor. I know the character is supposed to be the super intelligent, quirky, cold type, but this guy just doesn’t have any emotion. He seems to be channeling Jesse Eisenberg type facial expressions. He’d make a better serial killer on the show, than the main lead.

Just imagine someone like Matthew McConaughey (True Detective), or another good character actor... That’s what’s needed.

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Couldn’t disagree with you more. He’s perfect for this role.

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I was unaware that the actor was gay
His performance read more like a bookish, slightly nerdy guy that had some instinctive ability to read killers but was often socially awkward

I thought the performance was fine for the character

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I disagree, however during the first episode I did feel the actor playing Holden was stiff and a bit bland, but as the series has developed (I’m on episode 9 of Season 1) i realised that’s exactly how his character is written, he’s socially awkward and there’s signs Holden might well be a psychopath himself, Ive now done a complete 180 and now don’t think anyone could pull off Ford like the actor does, he’s perfect for the role.

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My only real issue with his acting is when someone is talking and he makes these over the top facial expressions as if they just dropped some big bombshell. It happens several times per episode and it's never something significant enough to warrant that reaction.

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Jonathan Groff is a highlight of the show. I didn't know he was gay in real life before I started watching this series, nor did I feel there was something "off" about the Holden Ford character other than what the writers appeared to intend. Namely, that Ford is obsessive about his work to understand the mind of serial killers, and that he is prone to cold intellectualism that makes him seem clueless and naive on occasion when dealing with people and mundane social situations. I don't think there is anything especially gay about those characteristics. I've known plenty of straight guys, myself included to an extent, that talk and behave very similarly. I think Ford's character is very interesting for some of the very reasons that people seem to find off putting. Is Groff doing some great acting or is he more so just being himself? It doesn't matter to me. If the Ford character is awkward in his interactions with women because, or partly, Groff is gay, what does it really matter? I think it fits the character and ties well into the underlying theme that diving deeply into the minds of sociopaths has the potential to alter one's personal relations.

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When in S1 did they state he was straight? Maybe his character is bisexual ... although I tend to side with ADC on that one.

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