Jawbone in question


After reading further about the "Hitler" jawbone "found in the Bunker garden" I find it impossible that the dental techs would be able to reconstruct Hitler's "from memory" and have it "mesh completely" to Hitler's "known" dental record.Really? Did they also have the amazing ability to recall the other hundreds/thousands of patients jawbones they had seen? Please! Not realistic or possible.A VERY questionable/unreliable verification.No wonder the producers of this show chose to disregard it.

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Well, he had a bridge put in around 1943 or 1945 and that Dentist I believe had some form of records. Furthermore, he had quite a but of dental work done so there was quite a bit of information for the Allies to work with...now, for years the Russians claimed to have Hitler'ss skull fragment which was recently tested and proved to be that of a woman in her 30's, possibly Eva Braun's BUT from all accounts she used cyanide and not a pistol, however this skull fragment has a bullet exit hole in it. Look, I find this show's concept interesting...but having read and studied as much as I have I firmly believe, as the criminal profile of Hitler predicted, committed suicide in that bunker. Please watch the acclaimed mini-series "The World at War" from 1973-4. Completely objective, a masterpiece. Search for it here at IMDB. It often comes on the AHChannel... All 28 episodes. If we believe the KGB agents of the 60's and 70's Hitler and his wife's remains were dug up twice and burned completely into ashes around 1974. Happy Holidays.

P.S. To mr the question is who the he k's skull is that the KGB has been holding all these years claiming it as Hitler's?

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Before this series I was 100% sure that Hitler died in the Bunker.Now I'm at 95%. I have seen the World at War episodes and remember there were interviews with people who were in the Bunker.They were certain Hitler died there.However,being in the same place does not mean there couldn't have been a Hitler double and how much interaction did they actually have with him? One of the most interesting things about this series is the (new to me) info that three planes flew out of Berlin on April 21 and one had Hitler's belongings in the cargo.Why? As to the USSR/KGB,Stalin to his death (1953) always believed Hitler was still alive somewhere.Did he know the "evidence" of Hitler's death really proved nothing? Even the Russians most likely have known the "Hitler skull" was a womans.There was quite a bit of confusion after Berlin fell and the Bunker area was not carefully preserved as to evidence.This series has presented a new interpretation of the whole Hitler "death" scenario due to the Declassified Documents.

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How many people did they actually work with in those years as much as they did Hitler? When you have a client as important and powerful as he was, they become the focus of your work. He was far from being just another patient. I would imagine that your own dentist can recall some, perhaps even many of the details of your dental history if they had to. AFAIK know they worked on other people, but caring for the Fuhrer was their top priority. They collectively spent a lot of time with him. And their reconstructions were not the only evidence, there was also the comparison of the detailed photographs of his teeth and crowns and bridgework work in Bezyminski's book which fit with the archived skull X-rays, particularly the so-called "telephone bridge".

From the report by Sognnaes: ‘In 1968 the Russian writer Lev Bezymenski published in West Germany a book entitled Der Tod des Adolf Hitler (The Death of Adolf Hitler). Bezymenski’s book carried the subtitle Unknown documents from Soviet archives. Thus, twenty-three years after the event, Soviet sources finally permitted disclosure of details of the autopsy with various dental and medical data on the death of Adolf Hitler as well as Eva Braun, Goebbels and his family.’ ‘Heuserman, the chair-side dental assistance of Hitler’s dentist, Blaschke was interrogated in a talk with the Soviet Chief Expert of Forensic Medicine, Lieutenant Colonel Shkaravski on May 11 1945, in the Office of CAFS No. 496. Frau Heuserman described the state of Hitler’s teeth in every detail.’ ‘One of the most important exhibits recovered from Soviet Archives concerns the objective photographic evidence illustrating the remains of the dentition of the corpse described in autopsy document Bo. 12. Included were photographs of a fixed dental prosthesis, namely, a 9-unit bridge, and the charred fragment of a mandible, the latter with several intact anterior teeth and two bridges, one on the right and one on the left side.’

‘The five X-ray plates attached are copies of originals found among Dr. Morell’s records. They have been positively identified by him as well as by Dr. Giesing as X-ray taken from Hitler. This was during the period when Dr. Giesing was treating Hitler for ear injuring suffered at the time of the assassination attempt on 20 Jul 44.’

‘In comparing the five X-ray plates located in the U.S. National Archives, several principal observations emerge, which are considered of major significance in correlating subjective and objective evidence regarding the odontological identification of Hitler. Firstly, it became clear that Hitler had only four remaining teeth which were not involved in either bridging a gap or supporting a bridge between adjacent teeth. Secondly, the X-rays indicate that the maxillary right central incisor and left lateral incisor, while completely opaque to the X-ray beam, do show short metallic posts for insertion into the root canals. Thirdly, the X-rays show a very peculiar and very unusual dental bridge construction on the right lingual aspect of the mandible. Fourthly, the X-rays show that the left maxillary incisor has the very characteristic feature of a partially opaque or metallic crown, typical of the now outmoded, but in times past, not infrequently uses, window-crown.’ ‘After careful study of the various types of descriptive, diagrammatic and photographic evidence had been prepared with a view to summarizing what, in our judgment, represented the dental status of Adolf Hitler.’

‘From the overall comparison of the odontological evidence we conclude that the individual identified by means of the 1945 Hitler files located in the U.S. National Archives in 1972, is the same person as that whose 1945 autopsy report was published in 1968 on the basis of the previously unknown documents from Soviet Archives of 1945.’

If you can find a flaw or error in Sognnaes' analysis, feel free to point it out. Bear in mind that he was a Dean of the Harvard School of Dental Medicine AND a founding Dean of the UCLA School of Dentistry.

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The thing about all this is how easily X-Ray plates can be substituted.The movie "Charley Varrick" shows an example of that.In the film the Charley Varrick character (Walter Matthau) does that to "prove" he died. If Hitler was planning to escape Berlin changing X-Rays and planting the matching jaw section from that person (now a corpse) would not be beyond the realm of possibility.Think about it-it could have happened.As I said,now I'm only 95% certain that Hitler died in the Bunker.The producers of this show have raised a plausible alternative.

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I'd say I'm at 98%.. Lol... To bad by KGB agents' accounts all remains were buried into ash and disposed off so no DNA to work with. Unless they're lying. And too bad the KGB kept synch BAD records. Let's not forget Stalin was obsessed with finding Hitler AND IKE also believed after the war he was alive... If either opinions changed I'd like to know. I've heard accounts that the Bunker scene was re-created with actors numerous times for Stalin's amusement. Don't know if live ammunition was used however lol..

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Do you think that that possibility never crossed their minds, that the provenance of the X-rays wasn't confirmed to their satisfaction? And again, the X-rays match the reconstructions produced separately by Dr. Blaschke and by Heusemann and Echtmann, who despite your opinions to the contrary worked enough with Hitler to be able to remember the details of his dental work.

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Since the skull was not Hitler's,therefore the partial jawbone and teeth have to be questioned.Some patsy could have had a similar enough section (remember only a section) either by a fluke or design by German Intelligence to have been sacrificed to "confirm" Hitler's death.It is impossible to state with certainty what happened.With "sitings" of Hitler after 4/30/45 by multiple unrelated sources who really can say for sure?

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The photographs used in the analysis show more than one section. Nothing in this world can ever be proven with absolute certainty, that's not a realistic standard. But was Hitler's death in Berlin proven beyond a reasonable doubt? Yes, it was. And that's all I've ever said on the subject.

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With a closed mind no new information or possibilities can be admitted.Is your Earth square?

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I'll consider just about anything that seems reasonable. I base my opinions on the available evidence, which supports his death in Berlin. I've considered the possibility of his survival and escape and see no reason to take it seriously. There is nothing to support the escape scenario other than hearsay and circumstantial evidence, which are not enough for me to put any credence in it.

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You guys are so wrong.

The program is about :

1: Is it possible.
2: How
3: When
4: Where

Saying 100% sure he did nobody can ever tell.

But it is possible..

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So is winning Powerball three times in a row.

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Can't wait for tonight's episode! Hopefully they'll have their night vision equipment on and pick the lock on the door of the Hide-away retreat.....and I think there's a deathbed confession of sorts also.

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You'll likely be disappointed.

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Yea in was just being sarcastic but I can't wait to see what conclusions they draw out of nothing....lol

"Daddy, would you like some sausage?" - Tom Green, "Freddy Got Fingered" 9/10

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The skull has been proven not to be Hitler unless he managed to somehow become a woman shortly before killing himself. So I do think the dental records could have been changed or altered by his personal dentists so it looked like someone else was Hitler. The dentists could have been well paid to make sure to say the jaw was his while Hitler ran. As for the Allies, of course they would have been satisfied - they wanted to be able to tell the rest of the world Hitler was dead.

To be honest, I'm not sure which I believe - probably about 90% he died in the bunker but willing to give a 10% chance he got away. Either way, he's dead by now so I don't see the harm in giving it a thought.




"It's better to be hated for who you are than be loved for who you aren't."

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It wasn't as simple as bribing a dentist to lie. The dental records and the photographs of the jaw remnants were compared to a set of authenticated X-rays of Hitler's skull taken in September of 1944. So there was a valid template to compare the dental evidence against, and it all matched. There were two separate independent reconstructions of his dental work, by Dr. Hugo Blaschke (captured by the Americans) and techs Kathe Heusemann and Fritz Echtmann (captured by the Russians) which matched. Dr's Sognnaes & Strom pretty categorically stated that the evidence confirmed Hitler's death beyond a reasonable doubt. Given that their professional credibility was on the line in this, I doubt that they would have done so if it wasn't so. See http://www.nl-aid.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/Sognnaes.pdf

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You honestly don't think a dentist could not have switched the records at any point or it wasn't one of Hitler's doubles going to see that dentist?




"It's better to be hated for who you are than be loved for who you aren't."

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Blaschke wouldn't have had access to the skull X-rays taken by Dr. Theodor Morell, and it is for all intents and purposes impossible to replicate the dental features of one person in the mouth of another. The number, size. position and condition of the teeth along with the dental hardware simply cannot be duplicated in someone else. For example, the x-rays and the jaw photos show a mark in the jaw where Blaschke had cut away bone and bridgework in Hitler's mouth in order to treat an infection. Do you really think that any double would have had that exact same cut in his jaw? Blaschke and the techs independently corroborated the details of his dental work, and their reconstructions matched completely. And the techs were under intense pressure from the Russian NKVD to tell what they knew. Do you really think that two techs with no particular connection to Hitler other than working with his dentist would have held up under pressure for the ten years or so they each spent in Soviet gulags? Do you think that any of what you're suggesting hasn't been considered and ruled out as not valid, possibly well before you were born? It's not any one piece of evidence which proves his death beyond a reasonable doubt, it's the TOTALITY of all of it and how it all fits together. It would be all but impossible for any elaborate scheme to fake his death to have held up without breaking for so many years. Read the report I linked to, and deny it if you can, using actual evidence not speculation.

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And don't forget that there were people (SS, his valet, adjutant, secretaries, etc) who all say the dead body of AH and Eva Braun just after they committed suicide and dragged their bodies outside and poured gasoline and then watched the bodies burn.

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