Fake Picture - Hunting Hitler (2015) Discussion

[–] slicksterzz 7 years ago

He died in Berlin. Hitler's dentist was captured after the war by the Americans. Two of his dental techs were captured by the Russians. Each independently reconstructed the details of Hitler's dental work from memory. Their reconstructions meshed completely, and they fit with the details of the dental work on the jaw fragments attributed to Hitler AND to the skull X-rays taken of him by his doctor after the July 20 bomb attempt. Bottom line, there is solid forensic proof beyond a reasonable doubt that Hitler died in Berlin. For a detailed account of the forensic exam go to http://www.nl-aid.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/Sognnaes.pdf

reply

[–] daxwills 7 years ago

Two people, from memory, reconstructed his dental records and they both matched perfectly. Eyewitness testimony is usually contradictory and the least reliable. In this case we're to believe these two made flawless mental records of Hitlers teeth? Would you like to buy some beachfront property? It's in Montana. Very secluded.

Also interesting that since forensic science has vastly improved the russians won't let anyone examine the jawbone. That would answer a lot of questions but the last time they did that was with the skull and that kinda, well, blew up in their face.

reply

[–] slicksterzz 7 years ago

Bear in mind that Hugo Blaschke was Hitler's dentist for eleven years. The techs (Kathe Heusemann and Fritz Echtmann) worked with him for most of that time. When you have a client/patient as important and powerful as Hitler, they become the primary or sole focus of your practice. They didn't just work with him a time or two, they did it for YEARS. There was plenty of time for all of them commit the details to memory. And it wasn't just the reconstructions. These were combined with detailed photographs of the dental remnants from the autopsy. All of this was compared to verified archived X-rays of HItler's skull taken in 1944 by Dr. Theodor Morell. It's the TOTALITY of the evidence and how well it all fits together which pretty much proves he died in Berlin. And BTW, the Russians DID let someone examine the jaw remnants. In 2003 a German biologist named Mark Benecke went to Moscow and actually examined the remaining fragments. He compared the evidence in his hands with the skull X-rays and came to the same conclusion: Hitler died in Berlin in 1945 and the teeth were his. http://wiki2.benecke.com/images/0/03/Hitlers_skull_teeth.pdf

reply

[–] daxwills 7 years ago

Or they just made a second set of teeth from a donor corpse and made it match Hitler. It's too easy to fake the "evidence" they have regarding the jawbone.

The testimony from the bunker, everyone says Braun took poison. The skull the russians recovered had a bullet hole in it. When it turns out to be female everyone decides "oh well then it was eva's". If the testimony is so certain, how the hell did that get overlooked by everyone in the bunker?

Is any of this "iron clad evidence" he escaped? Of course not. But it's hardly iron clad evidence he didn't. If you're so dead-set in your opinion on the subject, why watch the show in the first place?

reply

[–] slicksterzz 7 years ago

Do you really think that you can do that and not leave signs of what you've done? Do you think that you can remove, insert and reshape teeth on the jaw of a corpse and not have it be as obvious as hell? Benecke held the remnants IN HIS HANDS, and saw nothing like that. Last but not least any plan to use dental remnants to falsely verify the corpse as Hitler's would have involved leaving a set of falsified dental records in a place where they could be found and used to ID the body. No such records were ever discovered. Did you give this any logical thought whatsoever?

reply

[–] f-ascaso 7 years ago

About that eye witness testimony....the testimony of those who were in the bunker with Hitler during the final days ALL gave detailed accounts...that matched.

There was NO chance of rehearsal of false information because many who survived the war and were in the bunker were in there for varying amounts of time, and left (never to return to the bunker or see any of the others), yet the accounts of the time they were there all match. Small things especially, like what Eva Braun was wearing etc.

After the war, Stalin did everything possible to misinform the allies, he was pushing the narrative that Hitler was still alive hard, for his own reasons.

There is footage of these interviews in a film which was discovered in 2013. The original documentary and the footage was never broadcast or released as a documentary because by the time it was ready, people were looking towards the future and not too many were interested in reliving those dark days.

Smithsonian Channel is running a great documentary (it was on tonight, but will play again) where you can see the eyewitness testimony on film as it was recorded live.

http://www.smithsonianchannel.com/shows/the-day-hitler-died/0/3428237

As has been said and commented on in about every post on this board, "Hunting Hitler" is a joke, and absolute joke.

If it was any good they'd have made an American version by now - Hank Hill

reply

[–] rgibson-20 7 years ago

You can't equate testimony of eyewitnesses to a traumatic event to testimony of professionals concerning the condition of a patient. The studies you may be referring to involved witnesses to sudden or unexpected events, not deliberate examination of a person's physical characteristics.

reply

[–] jensen99 7 years ago

Not that I don't believe Hitler died in 1945 but the evidence you're providing here is clearly not reliable. At all. I would hope that you can see that.

reply

[–] slicksterzz 7 years ago

What exactly is unreliable about the examination of the dental remnants conducted by Sognnaes? Be specific please.

reply

[–] xsyntryk1 7 years ago

So the dental records of the female skull matched hitler's? lol
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2009/sep/27/adolf-hitler-suicide-skull-fragment

Not that most of this show isn't full of complete and utter bs, but still.

reply

[–] slicksterzz 7 years ago

No, you're talking about two entirely separate things. The skull fragment came from an unidentified woman, possibly Eva. It was recovered from the burial pit about a year after the war, nobody ever claimed it was Hitler's. The jaw remnants were recovered from a male corpse taken from the burial pit when they first took the bunker.

reply

[–] ozz1121 7 years ago

Seems like a real easy way to confirm jaw bone and teeth are indeed hitler is a DNA comparison with living or dead relatives of hitler. Makes you wonder why this hasn't been done. Doing a quick google search on this brought up nothing substantial. We don't need to rely on supposed memories of Hitler associates(dentist). I also read one of the dentist later said they lied about it because of Russian pressure. I did not take the time to substantiate this claim. But why not DNA family link analysis for the teeth/jaw bone? We could have serious proof.

ozz

reply

[–] slicksterzz 7 years ago

Speaking for myself, I don't know what DNA can be recovered from bone and teeth. It's also questionable as to whether or not any descendants would want to participate, you can't make them do it. And the recovery would almost certainly damage the remnants. FYI the dental analysis involved TWO separate reconstructions of his dental work. One came from his dentist Dr. Hugo Blaschke, who was captured by the Americans NOT the Russians. The other came from Blaschke's techs Kathe Heusemann and Fritz Echtmann. These reconstructions were produced independently, the Russians never spoke with Blaschke and the Americans never spoke with the techs. Neither side shared what they had with the other. This is important, as the reconstructions matched completely detail for detail, which would be almost impossible if either were lying or simply mistaken. These were compared with detailed photographs from the autopsy reports which confirmed that the dental elements on the body examined by the Russians matched the reconstructions. All of this was compared to verified archived X-rays of Hitler's skull taken in September and October of 1944 by his physician Dr. Theodor Morell which confirm his identity. It's the TOTALITY of the compiled evidence and how it all fits together which confirms his death in Berlin beyond a reasonable doubt. Any faked evidence wouldn't fit so completely. Go to http://www.nl-aid.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/Sognnaes.pdf and read the report there and try to explain how it fails to prove his death beyond a reasonable doubt.

reply

[–] f-ascaso 7 years ago

There are some people who are beyond reason, let alone reasonable doubt. Doesn't do any good, they can't distinguish between real evidence and their own convoluted idea of what happened. It's like trying to reason with a 9/11 denier, it's better to just walk away than try to reason with some.

As for this series, I think the producers etc. are all laughing hysterically after takes, wondering whether people are really gullible enough to believe their line of craptastic "investigation." It's as if they keep pushing it to extremes (Moe Howard picture) just to see how far they can go with the charade.

If it was any good they'd have made an American version by now - Hank Hill

reply

[–] Belnick 7 years ago

no there is not, the skull was from a woman

reply

[–] slicksterzz 7 years ago

A skull fragment was examined by Dr. Mark Bellantoni in 2009. He swabbed the surfaces of the fragment and recovered DNA which was from a female. But the remains have been handled so many times by so many people that the remains are effectively contaminated. It was found in or near the burial pit about a year after the end of the war. Nobody ever claimed it was his. But the jaw remnants were examined by forensic dental experts who concluded beyond a reasonable doubt that they were from Hitler. Go to http://www.nl-aid.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/Sognnaes.pdf and argue with the science if you can. In addition in 2003 a German biologist named Mark Benecke examined the jaw remnants and compared them to the archived X-rays of Hitler's skull and confirmed they came from him. That you've confused the skull fragment with the jaw remnants proves that you don't know what you think you do.

reply

[–] f-ascaso 7 years ago

I noticed that too! They showed the picture quickly, and I was so disgusted with all the BS of the show I had it on as back ground while I reading something, and glanced up to see this earth shattering piece of evidence. A picture of Moe Howard.

I hear in the next episode they discover a picture of Gehring (who is remarkable in his resemblance to Curly) on the beach at Ipanema. This will be a teaser to the new show coming out "Getting Gehring", where they track down Gehring and try to prove that the man who poisoned himself at the Nuremberg trials was a body double (maybe body triple when you take Gehrings size at that point into account.)

If it was any good they'd have made an American version by now - Hank Hill

reply

[–] speraman 7 years ago

I don't think there is ironclad proof either way. I don't find it impossible to believe that Hitler was smart enough to plan an escape route or that he saw the allies closing in. But my overall point is the Picture. When I saw that, and the fact that not one of those guys recognized it as Moe is beyond me. And the guy handing them the picture with certainty that it was Hitler. I'm not going to follow up on a discussion if he died or not. No definite proof either way. Dental reconstruction from memory is somewhat amazing. Wouldn't the narrative be to indeed say that he was dead so no one would look for him. Either way I don't care, the picture is what did it for me

reply

[–] 7 years ago

[deleted]

[–] richardbarrall 7 years ago

it's in the first episode of season 2, near the begining but you can hardly make it out as they don't show it clearly on camera, which throws up a red flag, but, also someone needs to post a pic of moe howard to compare with it, i couldn't find anything on google images to match it with.
also why is the same guy featured in episode 3 with the same bringing out the photo scene? i don't get that...repeating stuff that's already been shown. classic history channel, they do love to show stuff again and again which is a bit annoying.

reply

[–] f-ascaso 7 years ago

slicksterzz found it, see his board post here:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt5248878/board/thread/263794548

If it was any good they'd have made an American version by now - Hank Hill

reply

[–] slicksterzz 7 years ago

If I were a descendant of his, I think I'd be offended by this. A picture of a Jewish comedian is being presented as a photo of the perpetrator of the Holocaust? WTF?

reply

[–] f-ascaso 7 years ago

Moe did play the part of the Fuhrer in one of the Three Stooges comedies. I'm surprised this "investigation" hasn't submitted that Three Stooges short as "proof" of something yet. They still might, they're grasping at some pretty flimsy straws. Whoever gave this the green light, let alone the green light for a second season, needs to be fired and banned from the industry for life.

If it was any good they'd have made an American version by now - Hank Hill

reply

[–] slicksterzz 7 years ago

Now they've decided not to show the photo, that it would be unethical to do so without confirming that it was Hitler. Right. They got busted and they knew it.

http://www.jasoncolavito.com/blog/hunting-hitler-exonerates-moe-howard-of-the-charge-of-being-hitler-plus-is-the-fbi-childish-about-mj-12

reply

[–] mspera-91961 7 years ago

ha ha thanks. I am unable to upload the photo from my desk top to this site. But we all know it was Moe

reply

[–] f-ascaso 7 years ago

No need, as I posted above in this thread:

"slicksterzz found it, see his board post here:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt5248878/board/thread/263794548 "

If it was any good they'd have made an American version by now - Hank Hill

reply

[–] wblum524-881-262052 7 years ago

And Oswald acted alone. U people are believing the press and politicians. Hitler was a trench fighter. He wasn't afraid to die. Borman ran the show. These people were highly trained, well educated military people who were far ahead of the allies. They drugged him and got him out of germany. The nazi gold in the last year was moved to other countries. The only thing I want to know is all the buildings and compounds they built, why did they stop? They left everything. I can only fathom when Hitler finally died or boremann, everyone said screw this and used their resources to make money.

reply

[–] slicksterzz 7 years ago

Speaking for myself, it's not about believing "press and politicians". It's about believing established science. http://www.nl-aid.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/Sognnaes.pdf

reply

[–] Tuyere 7 years ago

Speaking for myself, it's not about believing "press and politicians". It's about believing established science.

Then the only question we have to ask ourselves now is this, "Did the glove fit?"

reply

[–] slicksterzz 7 years ago

In this case, yes it did, quite snugly.

reply

[–] Border_Ruffian 7 years ago

This "expert" investigative team got fooled by a picture of Moe Howard? Wow...



reply

[–] slicksterzz 7 years ago

I doubt that they were fooled. More likely that this was their doing, and then backed off once they got busted.

reply