All govts are good, all spy agencies are good and all whistleblowers are evil scum who must be hunted and punished.
Utter garbage.
Gotta agree. That annoyed the hell out of me. That's why I'm dropping it, I know where this is going.
shareI find that refreshing actually. I've been getting tired of the "CIA is evil" theme that's rampant lately.
Not that I think they're perfect or that they don't do anything wrong. I just happen to believe that most government agencies are, for the most part good, and was tired of the all the anti-government themes.
Its not a 'theme', its factual news, more and more evidence comes out every day.
On the other hand, punishing whistleblowers for revealing facts and labeling them as traitors is the real evil.
In fairness, while I have the greatest respect for people who risk their future, career, and physical wellbeing (to say the least) to follow their conscience, what exactly did we learn from whistleblowers that we didn't know before? That intelligence agencies spy on everything and everybody including their allies? That whatever you do on the interweb or say on your mobile phone might get known to people other than the intended recipients? Colour me cynical but the only thing that surprised me about those leaks was that people seemed actually surprised by them. Also while I absolutely advocate scrutiny and control of the practices applied by the intelligence community, public scrutiny of an organization which by definition can only function if its practices remain clandestine seems somewhat counterproductive. Are spy agenciens good? Probably not, but as evils go they might just be a necessary one. Does it make sense for them to go after those who put them and their work at risk? You would think so (well, I would - you might be of a different opinion altogether).
So much for actual politics. As for the series - BS is hardly NCIS for intelligence agencies, i.e. while NCIS would have you switch off the telly and join the US marines with a big 'Ooh Rah', BS doesn't really make me want to hug my friendly neighbourhood spy. So far I don't trust any of them or their motives. Which is probably as it should be - on tv and in real life.
After all is said and done, a lot more will have been said than done.
It's the compromising of carefully cultivated foreign assets (whatever the country) that, when compromised through exposure, often either are imprisoned or killed or simply have to walk away from being conduits of critical information for things like preventing terror or cyber attacks.
The costs of whistleblowers doing what they do is often hidden and deep and compromising to a country's information flow that allows it to defend itself through assets buried deep in other country's governments.
But people never think of that. These people deemed heroes often have a lot of blood on their hands, just like the people they say they are exposing. There is a cost to exposing foreign nationals who are providing information to democracies. Which these leaks often do.
The oppressive regimes can walk back the information and figure out who leaked it to the West. Just like the Soviets used to be able to do. Then it's good night and good bye to the source.
There would be no need for whistleblowers if govts allowed people to question and challenge certain methods and laws without fear of retaliation. Let's remember that before Snowden, two or three NSA analysts went through channels and followed protocols by raising questions with their superiors about their concerns over warrantless wiretapping. Just for questioning the practice, these men were confronted by swat teams at gun point, charged with espionage, fired, and their lives destroyed. And that's how you get a whistleblower like Ed Snowden who sees that there is no outlet in the agency where he can discuss his concerns about what appears to be an unconstitutional procedure used against Americans.
This is a democracy, first and foremost, established by a strong constitution that gives individuals rights and protections that must be respected. If it appears those rights are being violated, then people have the right to challenge those actions. Remove the opportunity to challenge and question, you get whistleblowers.
You Snowden lovers make me laugh. Who is Snowden to decide that he knows better than anyone else and he should enlighten the rest of us? Did you not realize that spy agencies were actually spying? What was it that you thought they did all day? Snowden should, at the very least, be in jail for treason. However, given the FBI's resistance to filing charges against Killery, I am not surprised that the gov't has been less than zealous in trying to get the little weasel.
shareDid you not realize that spy agencies were actually spying?
I don't see how anyone would interpret this show as positive for the CIA or any spy agency. The intro song is Bowie's "I'm afraid of Americans".
The running theme is the corrosive effect of deception and lying. Information sources are bled dry and are seen only as assets, not people. No one can be trusted, not even your own buddies.
Have to say this is a rip roaring good old fashioned spy story. Could have been written by Len Deighton or Le Carre.
Totally agree--I don't think we have enough information yet to know who exactly we should be rooting for, or to know whether Shaw is a do-good whistleblower or or someone else with a nefarious agenda.
Also, can't see how anyone would interpret the series as a PR for the intelligence world. There's nothing really likable about these people who seem more concerned with their own careers than with protecting society or their country. Only Daniel is show in a positive light so far in that he's focused on preventing bad people from doing bad things. But, in this series, that would make him a fish out of water.
Definitely Le Carre in its outlook.
100% agreed.
I don't even think all the CIA-Propaganda propagandists have ever seen the show.
Still waiting for the "this is all leftwing-liberal anti CIA propaganda"-sayers to crawl out from under their rock though.
ahahahahahaha! Yup. The show is just what it is. A fictional portrayal for entertainment purposes. Have to say that this gets some stuff very correct, at least from my own experience in government and industry (non intelligence). The situations depicted are all real: backstabbing colleagues, petty jealousies, internal fraud, corrosive work culture, secret agendas, etc. Seen them all but not so colourful, and not all at once. Lived through a takeover audit very much like the one shown. I don't see it as a positive prop piece for any side. All the characters are working for their own ends.
shareA good spy show has a short game inside a long game inside a really long game. To me, this has the feel of The Sting or The Shadow Line where the protagonist is the supposed hero but he then turns out to just be a pawn in a much larger game, I guess a spy who is also coming infrom the cold so to speak. Glad to see there are 3 more eps. really wondered how it was going to wrap in just one since most miniseries are 8 eps.
Also, a shout out for Honourable Woman for those looking for recent decent spy shows.
My Chimp DNA seems to have lost its password temporarily. Sluggr-2
The Shadow Line--one of the most amazing BBC series ever produced. Ejiofor was just incredible and Stephen Rea, terrifying! After hearing so much about this series for years, I snatched it up on iTunes when they were selling it for $10.
Was there a supernatural moment in this series, when an undercover cop floated off the floor?
Oh yes, The Shadow Line! Had a similar vibe to Olen's work, now that you mention it.
Another Rea masterpiece of a performance....
I've mentioned it elsewhere, and it's a bit obscure in terms of availability, but the "Weissensee" is a good counterpoint to "Berlin Station," taking place in East Berlin between about 1981 and 1989.
Hans's outcome in B.S. reminded me SO much of someone whose morals and intel ethics were forged in the Stasi we see in "Weissensee."
The third series is just now showing on the MHZ.org web site--a sub service (I get it through ROKU).
But watching "Berlin Station" and simultaneously East Berlin Stasi life circa 1980s is a mind bender.
"Weissensee" is the story of three men, dad, and two brothers who are knee deep in Stasi brutality and the banality of a totalitarian regime like that. The dad is okay, a Stasi official but he has perpective and you always think he knows how bad the Stasi is. His older son drank the Kool-Aid and would not be out of place as a sadistic Nazi SS officer who truly enjoys the evil perpetrates on victims. The younger son is a police officer, so not as political, and suffers a great deal due to the actions of those around him.
The array of folks in East Berlin who are fighting for their rights and freedoms is moving, and you really invest in some of the abused characters. You see how the Stasi just did what they wanted to people who got in their way or did not toe the line. Just handing out a pamphlet got you 10 years in a Stasi prison, etc.
Reminded me of Clay Williams and Hans in their meeting when they decided they'd kill each other's problems in Daniel and Vasile. "Weissensee" is filled with that kind of real stuff that actually happened as recently as the late '80s right in Berlin.
It's a long time until next fall! Wonder what Olen is cooking up for us next year?
I have Roku. I'll search for Weissensee.
I have Roku. I'll search for Weissensee.
Good news is there once was a 30-day free trial for MHZ.org programming on ROKU.
The way I devoured this series of "Weissensee," I'd not have gotten past 30 hours before finishing! haha
Series 1 and 2 are up and available, and 4 of the 6 episodes of Series 3 are up: Eps 3-4 posted just today. Eps 5-6 will be posted 12/27. By Series 3, we are into 1989 with the fall of the Berlin Wall. And if some of these Stasi bastards don't get their commupence at the hands of their former victims, I shall not accountable for my actions! ha
I realize some folks simply cannot utilize the superb programming from MHZ because they just can't cope with subtitles. With "Weissensee" being a German program, it has subs.
Although, it strikes me that if there is a single subtitled foreign language series worth watching and making the effort for, it's "Weissensee." Especially if a person seeks out good espionage/Cold War stories.
Perhaps with all the "fake" news and alleged disseimination of false and manipulative information by the Russians going on right now, "Weissensee" has never been more relevant to see how easy it is to take an entire country under your control if you have the right people pulling the information levers--especially if you back it up with persecution power.
It's a good tale for today, as well. Not just an historical drama, it seems.
P.S. Good news for fans of the "Inspector Brunetti" series made by the Germans from the Donna Leon books. The actor who plays Inspector Brunetti is the high ranking Stasi official and father to the two boys that make up the central family. Nice to see him in such a different role.
Yes, the Hector monologue at the end says that "governments are not moved by shame" or something like that, in his summary of the situation that the man in the street has to deal with.
There was a fine non-verbal message as well at the very end of Episode 10. After all the Thomas Shaw movement, the marches in the streets, the newspaper articles and the heightened outrage people had over Thomas Shaw...at the very end we saw the council workers with their little cart putting up new posters over the Thomas Shaw posters, covering them up and moving on down the street.
The message? That Thomas Shaw was the issue of the moment, a story that ran a few days or weeks, and when it ran its course it was over. A commentary perhaps on the short attention span for "outrage" stories that society has these days. The outrage and attention last a little while then everybody moves on to the next headlines and the old one's over.
Thomas Shaw had announced his "Ruhestand" on the front page of the newspaper, so now nobody cared about him at all anymore.
The great non-verbal poster cover at the end was like a reality check to the entire 10 episodes that went before! It went to prove what Shaw was saying in his manifesto. That exposing goes no where. The real work for change is a hands-on job.
[deleted]
Well that's not what this show is about which you might have know if you had given it a chance without speculating after watching the pilot.
shareDon't know if you were trolling or over simplifying things.
The series does not paint any government as good or bad, they don't even really talk about the greater politics that much.
It doesn't try to paint a good picture of the CIA either, as we move along it gets darker and some nasty secrets are revealed about many of the characters.
As the story is told from the standpoint of the hunter, of course the whistleblower is the evil scum. But then they do some reveals and some things get flipped.
Just finished the season 6 premier of Homeland. In comparison, there is NO propaganda in BS. Homeland is now set in a fictional world with exaggerated strawmen characters, about as relevant to my daily reality as GoT.
My Chimp DNA seems to have lost its password temporarily. Sluggr-2
I remember being interested in Season 1, but just never followed up on that show. I think I'll do it soon.
share