MovieChat Forums > Making a Murderer (2015) Discussion > Has Avery confessed to someone?

Has Avery confessed to someone?

posted 8 years ago by paranoja
13 replies | jump to latest

Some of Zellner's tweets lately have been focusing on "snitches", namely:

Kathleen Zellner ‏@ZellnerLaw Oct 4

Many snitches find religion to justify concocting fabricated stories- somehow always fits prosecution theory.
#MakingAMurderer #TrialbyLiar

Kathleen Zellner ‏@ZellnerLaw Sep 17

Things are going so well for SA we figure it won't be long til a snitch is planted at prison. Wait and see.
#MakingAMurderer #sameoldsameold

(And yes, Zellner does weirdly retweet herself)

Are we going to see people coming forward who've Steven bragged to? By all accounts he's not very smart and would brag about the whole "Making A Murderer" phenoma...

[–] FactUnderChecK 8 years ago

Rumour travels fast in prison. I can imagine people lining up for a reduced sentence to dish some dirt. My thoughts are steve is paranoid about this possibility, reports his concerns to legal team - zellner attempts to defuse before it becomes an issue.. if it is an issue.

[–] xXenomicXx 8 years ago

It's kind of an unwritten rule of prison, don't tell people details about your crime. Most inmates will just tell you what they were charged with and they are innocent or "my lawyer f-ed me", quoting Shawshank Redemption.
Even if Avery is sitting at a lunch table and starts talking about raping Teresa, there would be a few guys telling him to shut his mouth, to keep him from being a victim to a snitch.
The problem with Avery's case is, I'm willing to be everyone in the prison knows the details about the case whether Avery told them or not. So I wouldn't worry about a jailhouse snitch. Unless it's an official, like a chaplain or guard.

[–] doggie_rodriguez 8 years ago

I always found it odd that they will use a testimony of a convicted criminal against another convicted criminal.

Criminal #1 says that Criminal #2 confessed to a murder.

Criminal #2 says this is a lie.

People believe Criminal #1 b/c Criminal #2 is a convicted felon.

But wait...isn't Criminal #1 in there also?

Yeah, but we like him better. 

If I were a criminal I would lie to get out sooner. I imagine most would. It's not like they are in prison b/c they always tell the truth.

[–] xXenomicXx 8 years ago

It has to be a little more than just a "he said/she said". If convict #1 gives some details that only the killer could know, or it leads them to new evidence...then it's considered.

Like if convict #1 tells police where the murder weapon is, and the police find it...then he is credible.

[–] Katiedidd 8 years ago

Bingo. It has to do with corroborating evidence. If a snitch provides information that can be corroborated by tangible evidence that was uncovered by their statements, it's good... which is exactly what you said, and you're right.

Otherwise, a snitch's evidence on its own is merely hearsay. That's why it falls flat, (but convicts surely still try it).

[–] ToHelenBackAgain 8 years ago

It seems extremely unlikely. He has always, following both convictions, remained adamant about his innocence, even when professing guilt actually would help him.

"But... what about the relevant conundrum?"

[–] paranoja 7 years ago

JOSEPH EVANS JR's letter about Avery's confessions to him:

http://www.rockfordadvocate.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/JOSEPH-EVANS-JR-STEVEN-AVERY-JAILHOUSE-CONFESSION.pdf

Some "interesting" tidbits:

- Avery had tried to flirt with TH outside, she rejected him and he invited her in to go over details about the car sale. He then got out a kitchen knife and threatened her from behind and forced her to the bedroom.

- Avery tied her to the bed with clothes, rather than using the cuffs

- Avery strangled her to death, punched her and also slit her throat when she was probably dead. He then continued to have sex with her.

- He called Dassey over to help him, told Dassey that "she wouldn't mind" if he had sex with her. Dassey had sex with her but wondered if she was a "heavy sleeper" or something and Avery thought he was stupid and told him she was dead.

- He shot her twice in the head, once in the heart and once in the vaginal area

- He promised Brendan to buy him a new car if he kept his mouth shut

- He harboured a hate against his brother and thought the police should've arrested him

- Avery dumped some things outside Crivitz, among those items were 2 rings and a necklace that Teresa was wearing

He knows way more than is presented in the Netflix documentary, so either he had access to the trial transcripts, is a good guesser or there's at least some truth to what this guy is saying.

[–] berniegfletcher 7 years ago

paranoja We have no way of knowing whether there is any truth in this letter about a SA confession. But..the wording of Zellner's tweets suggests she knew about a jailhouse snitch who had found God. I would speculate that SA told her some story about an inmate who might tell "lies" about him. I doubt Zellner was just guessing about a snitch who found religion. (Look at the timing. Just coincidence? Did journalist Ferak tip off Zellner about the letter?)

Zellner is smart. She knows to get ahead of a story. The letter was sent, I think, in August?

What is interesting is how Avery supporters view jailhouse snitches. A snitch in 1995, a call to a jail guard (AC) about some anonymous inmate confessing to some long ago rape...TOTALLY CREDIBLE! A bedrock of their whole theory about AC planting evidence even though he had nothing to do with the 1985 case, was not being sued and only passed on the call to LE never even knowing the call was about SA.

Snitches saying SA drew torture chambers for women or knew how to burn a body to get rid of evidence...TOTALLY UNBELIEVABLE!

Now this inmate who is in prison for life with no possibility of parole...TOTALLT UNBELIEVABLE! Not only that but (quoting TTM) "Hopefully (sic) this guy ends up dead..." or "Does anyone really believe a jailhouse snitch these days? Especially years after the fact?" So which is it?

If I were BD's lawyers I would look at this terrible, gruesome "confession" seriously because (if true) TH was dead before BD was involved. If true, BD is not guilty of murder and has served enough time for his involvement. Now is the time to come clean and make a deal. Tell the truth, get out of prison a mere accomplice after the fact with sentence served.

Some parts of the letter that ring true to me: SA asking TH out to dinner. This sounds like the sort of half truth/embellishment a murderer would tell. He's just a "romantic" who lost his temper. Even monsters care about how others see them. I never thought it was SA's plan to murder TH, but he had millions of $ reasons to silence her once things got out of hand. SA promising BD a car to keep his mouth shut. SA being angry at a brother. Wanting to blame the murder on a brother (SA tries this later).

Before I get attacked...I wouldn't put any stock in a jailhouse snitch, but it would be interesting if someone came forward who found jewellery years ago in Crivitz. That could be evidence.

[–] paranoja 7 years ago

Before I get attacked...I wouldn't put any stock in a jailhouse snitch, but it would be interesting if someone came forward who found jewellery years ago in Crivitz. That could be evidence.

Has it ever been verified what jewelry she was wearing that day? He specifies it - two rings and a necklace. I don't recall that being found?

One of the things that stuck out to me was him strangling TH and then taping her mouth when she was dead - it seems illogical to some, but it does echo the story Jodi told about SA strangling her until she passed out, only to wake up as he was dragging her. If SA had one experience of one of his victims waking up after he possibly thought they were dead, then it makes sense why he would tape THs mouth "just in case".

[–] berniegfletcher 7 years ago

Interesting paranoja, I haven't read anything about what jewellery she was wearing. How would this inmate know... if he is right...unless SA actually told him? The chances of finding small jewellery are very slim, probably silted at the bottom of a pond somewhere. It makes sense. Jewellery wouldn't burn.

I hope no one from the family ever sees that letter. Parts of it sound so much like SA's attitude. The strangling. He has no respect for women. They are just hated objects to him.

If the story is true, BD is not a murderer, but SA does not care about him in the least.

SA has a fascination with fire. His letter to his ex-fiancée says burn this, sounds threatening...what angry men say to women..."I don't want to hurt you or the kids".

[–] berniegfletcher 7 years ago

Also interesting: Evans letter explains why SA disabled the battery...in case the Rav had some kind of GPS. SA wouldn't know if it did or not. Likely got rid of the main set of keys. Crivitz with the jewellery because they don't burn?

Also: Brendan tells detectives that SA said he would give BD a car for helping.

From the letter:

"Steve said that he had told Brendan that he had millions of dollars coming to him from his lawsuit against Manitowoc County and he would buy Brendan any kind of car that Brendan wanted..."
http://www.rockfordadvocate.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/JOSEPH-EVANS-JR-STEVEN-AVERY-JAILHOUSE-CONFESSION.pdf

Is this just a coincidence? Did detectives feed this car story to BD? (Please show me where).

[–] paranoja 7 years ago

There's a lot of interesting details that really didnt need to be in the confession such as he showed Dassey her vagina by grabbing her by the pubic hair to lift it up (ick).

It echoes this part of his confession (1/3):

Wiegert: And then what happens next?

Brendan: That he said if I wanted to I could get some but not right now.

Wiegert: Come on, be honest, you went back in that room.

Fassbender: Tell us now, Brendan.

Wiegert: We know you were back there. Let's get it all out today and this will all be over with.

Fassbender: He asked you if you want some, right? (Brendan nods yes) That's what you told us.

Brendan: Um huh

Fassbender: If you want some pussy.

Wiegert: Wa

Fassbender: What did you tell him?

Brendan: I said I wasn't aged so he took me back there and showed me some.

Wiegert: What did he show you?

Brendan: Her naked body.

Also, Brendan possibly having sex with her dead body might explain why his confession turns out to be a mess - that might be the one thing he doesn't want to confess and possibly being seen as a necrophiliac might be too disturbing even for BD. So he tries to circumvent the issue the best he can, but instead it turns into that Teresa was alive when he was there, so he must be involved with the murder itself.

[–] catbookss 7 years ago

Brendan: I said I wasn't aged so he took me back there and showed me some.

Is "aged" a typo? i don't know what this means, and it sounds so awkward otherwise, even given the weird regional Avery manner of speaking.

I don't know what to think about this.

As Bernie pointed out, you can't dismiss one jailhouse snitch's story as the truth, but others' aren't, simply because one supports your "side," or not.

It's an awful, horrific story, which was hard to read if true -- and even if not.

If it is true, I doubt necrophilia was on Brendan's mind at all, even after the fact.