Burnham heads to the ISS Charon with a special ‘gift’ for the Emperor. With the help of an unexpected source, Stamets gains clarity while trapped inside the mycelial network. Saru asks for L’Rell’s help.
Pics and preview [US] https://trekmovie.com/2018/01/18/check-out-10-new-photos-from-star-trek-discovery-episode-12-vaulting-ambition/
Be aware SPOILERS ALERT..........
We are never told exactly how the Klingons got their hands on the memories of (the true) Tyler…it’s highly possible , that during the Binary battle the true Tyler was taken prisoner and his consciousness taken from him before he die (maybe) and planted over to Voq’s mind which was temporarily put to sleep..
Voq’s boby structure was modified to pass as a human….once on board the Discovery a specific phrase would trigger and awake Voq’s dorment mind.
In the trailer of the 12th episode , we see a suffering “Tyler” in sichbay…I can only hope that of the two minds that are part of “Tyler” now hopefully Tyler’s mind “crushes and annuls” Voq’s .
I think Michael and the bond between her and Tyler, will be of great importance in giving Tyler’s mind the help and strength it needs to prevail over Voq's.
It is also quite obvious now that Lorca is from the Mirror Universe...Lorca wanting Michael , the muntineer , as a member of his crew until now really didn't make sense .
MU Michael was hunting down Lorca for the Empress.
Lorca , this time around, will use Prime Michael's help to destroy the Empress, who obviously is unaware of the switch.
What we don't know is Lorca's true intentions, though. ...did Lorca want to kill the Empress and form a more lentient Terran Empire or was his goal just to replace the Empress and still destroy the coalition?
I was also hoping Tyler would win out, and it's looking like it will go that way, since this last episode. I just hope they go into *why* he was able to win and don't leave it unexplained.
Also Lorca's identity and intentions are now confirmed! Didn't expect he had manipulated Mirror Michael like he's said to have done. I look forward to the explanation of how he got to the prime universe.
Forgot to say, it was pretty obvious to me before this episode that they captured the original Tyler during the Battle of the Binary Stars. All signs pointed to that part of the story being true. Looks like from this last episode that, as I also suspected, that series of surgeries weren't just performed on Voq but on Tyler as well. Tyler's body is dead but his personality was "reconstructed" over Voq's, to paraphrase L'Rell. They're probably the last memories he has from before his body died.
shareby plainstyle:
Forgot to say, it was pretty obvious to me before this episode that they captured the original Tyler during the Battle of the Binary Stars. All signs pointed to that part of the story being true.
@Initially I thought they had captured Tyler and planted the dormant mind of Voq under Tyler’s.
______________________________________________________________________ .
Looks like from this last episode that, as I also suspected, that series of surgeries weren't just performed on Voq but on Tyler as well. Tyler's body is dead but his personality was "reconstructed" over Voq's, to paraphrase L'Rell. They're probably the last memories he has from before his body died.
@From my understanding the procedure was more complex . T’Rell says that they "harvest Tyler’s DNA ".
Most probably Tyler was seriously wounded , dying so they decided to create a new Tyler from his DNA.
Tyler’s memories were saved/cloned from the original before he died and Voq's mind (temporarily dormant )was entwined into Tyler’s before being placed into Tyler’s new brain .
Voq’s limbs and spine had to be crushed and sized down to fit in Tyler's new body created from his DNA . Voq’s internal organs were also modified to appear human if scanned.
If the production chose this “Frankenstein method” to create a spy it's because all the surgical scenes added drama and mystery and , for how they were filmed, could be interpreted in more than one way…initially many thought that Tyler had been tortured and sexually abused .
And besides putting the viewers off track , these topics would have created some interesting debates.
It appears that ultimately T’Rell has decided to switch off Voq ‘s mind leaving Tyler in control…I’m not certain what this means entirely for Voq…I’m not sure but that sounded like a death cry to me .
Actually, I believe L'Rell explicitly states that they captured Tyler during the Battle of the Binary Stars.
shareby costumer :
Actually, I believe L'Rell explicitly states that they captured Tyler during the Battle of the Binary Stars.
@She said that and much more ..."Tyler was captured at the battle of the Binary Stars ...we HARVEST his DNA ".......
So why would they need to harvest his DNA if they could use his original body ...they needed a new/clone Tyler because the original died soon after his capture.
They recuperated Tyler's memories before he died and put them back (together with Voq's memories entwined but temporarily dormant ) into the empty mind of the new/cloned Tyler .
They modified/disguised Voq's organs to pass as human and crushed his bones (limbs and spine) to "fit " into the empty casing of Tyler. (Hugh, the doctor revealed that before he got his neck broken).
They riscontructed Tyler like Frankenstein did with his creation .
What's the purposing of harvesting his DNA , otherwise ?
Lots of good stuff about this episode on After Trek and tweets by screenwriter Jordon Nardino.
https://trekmovie.com/2018/01/22/after-trek-gives-details-on-georgious-meal-mirror-stamets-terran-empire-history-and-more/
I think it's pretty clear that the "old" Tyler has no future after the events of episode 11. He IS Voq. And most likeky, L'Rell just restored the "Tyler cloak", in order to try to fool the humans again. That's the way she left her Klingon ship to get aboard the Discovery, remember? They are at war, and she has no reason to cooperate in good faith with humans. Burnham would be an idiot if she trusts cloaked Voq again. Now, it is also possible for Voq to leave behind his fanatical "kahless light", switch sides, and become a force for good and a vehicle for peace. Then, and only then, Burnham could forgive him and perhaps love him as Voq.
The Lorca twist came out as a surprise for me, didn't see that coming (kudos for those who did). Still puzzles me how he got to the bridge of Discovery as captain. I'll have to rewatch some episodes to see how his story fits in. But we saw he has really strong ties *wink* with a Starfleet admiral. She is aware of his sensitivity to light. And, given her high rank, she might know about mirror universe and the Defiant (in fact, I think Emperor Giorgiou was bluffing about its fate). Lorca is a rebel from MU, so it's possible he is an ally of the Federation, following a trans-universe strategy to end with the Terran Empire. For completeness, "prime Lorca" might be the original captain of the Discovery, being kept hidden in a safe Starfleet location.
Another scenario would be a rebel, but still evil Lorca, who is an ally of the Klingons from MU (he clearly shares a lot of its warrior philosophy), and collaborates with them to wipe humans from both universes. In this scenario, he might be well aware of the "Tyler/Voq" plot, even to the point of having staged the kidnapping.
by pesebrero:
I think it's pretty clear that the "old" Tyler has no future after the events of episode 11. He IS Voq. And most likeky, L'Rell just restored the "Tyler cloak", in order to try to fool the humans again.
@The trailer for episode 13 leaves us intentionally in the dark .T’Rell loves and believes in Voq and his cause so I find it hard to believe that she would just eliminate Voq on the words of Saru who told her that the Klingons had lost .
To stop Voq from hurting himself again , T’Rell could easily have just switched him off and given Tyler control again…It’s also clear that there is a glitch in what they did to Voq/Tyler.
______________________________________________________________________________
Burnham would be an idiot if she trusts cloaked Voq again. Now, it is also possible for Voq to leave behind his fanatical "kahless light", switch sides, and become a force for good and a vehicle for peace. Then, and only then, Burnham could forgive him and perhaps love him as Voq.
@I don’t see Voq ever becoming a promotor for peace between his race and the Federation but Michael could still love Tyler . They just have to make sure that T’Rell really did switch Voq off and make sure it’s irreversible .
As for forgiving Tyler… he wasn’t himself …he did his utmost to fight what was happening to him without really understanding what was going on . And anyways, when Michael was with Tyler it was Ash that was in control and not Voq.
_____________________________________________________________________________
continues
continue....
by pesebrero:
Still puzzles me how he got to the bridge of Discovery as captain. I'll have to rewatch some episodes to see how his story fits in. But we saw he has really strong ties *wink* with a Starfleet admiral. She is aware of his sensitivity to light. And, given her high rank, she might know about mirror universe and the Defiant (in fact, I think Emperor Giorgiou was bluffing about its fate).
@ Yes , it was most probably via the Starfleet admiral that Lorca got the command of the Discovery. She knew about his sensitivity to light but I feel she just thought it was caused by some battle injury or health issue.
Could Starfleet have , known that Lorca was from the MU , made a deal and used his unorthodox methods to win the war in the Prime Universe ? It is a possibility ..but not delivering the vital information He had to the Federation ( that would have hopefully ended the war sooner ) , it appeared that Lorca’s true identity WAS a secret and all he had in mind was his own agenda.
____________________________________________________________________________
Another scenario would be a rebel, but still evil Lorca, who is an ally of the Klingons from MU (he clearly shares a lot of its warrior philosophy),
@ I too was hoping that Lorca wanted to replace the Empress and install a less aggressive position towards the enemy (Klingons, Andorians etc).
The story behind the ex lover, Eva ,caught me off guard seeing I was thinking until then that Lorca, despite his questionable methods , did want to improve thing .
Not sure what to expect now , depends a lot on Michael and her reaction to M.Lorca’s deception , maybe still more twists …definitely looking forward to watching how events unfold on Sunday. I wouldn’t count on the Empress despite what she said …I don’t think she is trustworthy as she said to Michael.
continue...
PS. Just something I noticed ..a pothole or a nitpick maybe..
We have seen that Geogiou , Michael , Saru , Tilly and the rest of the crew of the Shenzhou /Discovery in the Prime Universe are all connect in the MU.
We can’t say the same for Michael and Lorca. They didn’t know each in the Prime Universe… only after MIRROR Lorca demanded Michael to be transferred to the Discovery did they meet.( and we know now why he insisted on having her )
…in the MU instead M.Lorca and M.Michael knew each other well , in fact it looks like they may have initially plotted aagainst the Empress and at the last moment Michael may have decided to rethink her position and go after Lorca per the Empress.
My point is Prime Michael never knew Prime Lorca ….yet in the MU they were very close in many ways.
I guess my biggest question for now is, will we get to see Prime Universe Lorca ever, and will he get to be captain of the USS Discovery in the future? Maybe some of this will already be answered in 1x13. :o
share