MovieChat Forums > Time to Choose (2016) Discussion > Challenge to viewers on both sides of th...

Challenge to viewers on both sides of the climate change debate


Hi fellow IMdBers,

I just viewed Time to Choose and found that it covered how humans contribute to greenhouse gases pretty well; plus it did a good job of offering an enticing platter of new technologies that may give us some hope for solving, or at least decreasing, the devastation of climate change to the planet.

I know there are many Americans and other world citizens who are skeptical that climate change is real or that it is caused by humans and/or who worry that action against climate change will mean they will lose their jobs or that the economy of their communities will die.

Here is my challenge: if you feel that climate change is not happening or that it is but is not caused by humans and that the government and the media are exaggerating the problem, pledge to view all of Time to Choose in exchange for a climate change believer like me pledging to view a documentary of your choice and respond to it with an open mind. Fellow climate-change believers, are you on board with this exchange?

Those who view Time to Choose with skepticism after watching it, please post links to the documentary you trust about climate change.

My hope is that everyone will be serious and respectful and have a fruitful dialogue.




reply

There is no debate as to whether or not climate change exists. What is a debate is whether or not we are responsible for warming effects that are alleged to be taking place world wide.

Challenge accepted. I will watch this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7dxsVSzL4HE

Here is your documentary. And please watch before you judge/comment. There are plenty of historical documents (including documents and testimony at the Nerenburg Trials) that PROVE at least 1/3 of the total number of Jews believed to have been killed by the Nazis was fabricated. I'm talking about actual proof. Not conspiracy theory nut job hearsay.

Disclaimer: The nazi leadership was evil. The nazis forced an entire to people to relocate. With there possessions being confiscated and many were forced into slavery via work camps. Those refusing to work were killed. There was never an official genicidal order to exterminate the Jews. Many of the Jews died due to starvation, brutal living conditions, malicious guards and in some cases even allied mistakes (bombing and feeding freed starving jews full meals).

reply

So what happened with your guys challenge? I am assuming if this went down that you guys switched over to private messaging?

reply

I never got a response... Maybe the climate took out his internet?

reply

I don't feed trolls.

reply

The link was to a Holocaust denial site--nothing to do with Time to Choose.

reply

Troll

reply

I guess you just scared your wrong

reply

[deleted]

There are more than two sides. The particular kind of climate is not important. The ability to adapt and master the climate is important.

1. The climate has gotten much safer. Climate-related deaths have decreased 98% in the last 80 years and have decreased in each decade.
http://jpands.org/vol14no4/goklany.pdf

2. Environmental quality has gotten much better. The water we drink and the air we breathe have gotten much cleaner.
http://dailycaller.com/2014/11/13/9-graphs-that-prove-using-fossil-fuels-hasnt-harmed-the-planet/

3. The link in #2 also shows how production rates of fossil fuels are thousands of times greater than the rates of consumption. We're NOT running out of resources. We're constantly creating more usable resources out of previously useless raw materials--to the extent that property rights are protected (as opposed to state controlled).

4. The models are wrong. No climate prediction model has prospectively (i.e. in advance; not retrofitted after the fact) predicted the climate of any location. Show me one.

5. The track records of people who have made doomsday predictions are uniformly terrible. When these same people make the same predictions with a moved goalpost, they somehow still have credibility. These should be called speculations not predictions. You wouldn't trust a dollar of your money with a broker who has never been right.
https://pjmedia.com/blog/here-are-some-doomsday-predictions-from-the-first-earth-day-that-didnt-quite-pan-out/

6. Minimizing impact should NOT be the standard. The long term well-being of humans should be the standard. Any "balance" between the two that sacrifices the well-being of humans is evil to the extent that it places humans below minimizing impact.

7. Any "impact" of homo sapiens is always assumed to be bad. Non-impact of homo sapiens is always assumed to be good. This is simply original sin and species low self-esteem.

8. Smearing your opponent is not an argument. An appeal to authority or popularity is not an argument. It is irrational and self-destructive to ignore the actual climate safety, resource creation, environmental quality, track record of previous predictions, and the evil nature of using non-impact as a goal.
http://www.moralcaseforfossilfuels.com/

reply

I have seen all these talking points many times before. Did you watch the film, or not, Mary Zona?

reply

You don't want a debate... You don't respond to any of the points above. Trolls simply want people to listen to them and don't bother trying to have a logical debate.

reply

MaryZona, Heres why your info is misleading.

1) Climate related deaths ARE decreasing. Thats because our ability to predict the disasters and effectively communicate it to people is increasing. Not because our climate is becoming less hostile. I am from india and simple google search will show you how we used science to potentially save thousands of lives just in last few years.

2) "The air we breathe has become much cleaner" Yes, we managed to decrease the pollutants because of "our efforts" but not all of them. Where is the CO2 emmissions trend in the graph? Thats the main point of the discussion, isnt it? Also, you cited data from EPA to prove that our air is becoming cleaner. How do you defend this from EPA website "climate change is occurring, is caused largely by human activities" https://www.epa.gov/clean-air-act-overview/air-pollution-current-and-future-challenges#limiting . And did you notice in your source's graph comparisons that they used two different sources to pull two graphs and compare them? Just because our coal use increased doesnt mean that we attribute every success of that time to our coal use? My age also increased in trend with our coal use. Should I say that I am getting older because we are using coal?!

3) If you want to cite data, take it from a peer reviewed website. Dailycaller is clearly right wing website. Their opinions dont count as science. They put some numbers to say that more oil we use more we can dig? Our coal sources are increasing? Why dont they provide a source for that? Just because one ignorant was wrong about climate prediction, doesnt mean that you can cite him to refute the majority of scientists around the world. I can give you hundred quotes about climate change deniers to prove that they are ignorant and selfish, does it mean that I can extend it to the whole group?

4) "Our models are wrong"? My profession is related to weather prediction in a way and Yes, they are not accurate. You cant use them to predict if the coming hurricane is going to affect your roof or your neighbours. But they sure can give us a general idea of which area is getting affected. And THAT is the reason for decrease in climate releated deaths. Your first point.

5) 3 and 4 explain it.

6) " Long term well being" This is exactly what the scientists are talking about. They are not saying we are at danger. USA is still is relatively sparsely populated place. It doesnt feel the effect immediately. So,You and your kids might be or might not be the ones at danger. But your grand kids will definitely be. Those are the lives that they are trying to improve. And we need to start acting NOW for that.

7) "Any "impact" of homo sapiens is always assumed to be bad" Climate change researchers are the ones who say we can and we should do something about climate. And you call those people making efforts as the ones who are low self-esteemed and who believe that their influence is bad ? You are just contradicting your arguments.

8) Appealing to popularity? How many researchers can you show me who deny climate change and who are not sponsored by the rich people who make profits from fossil fuels or politicians who seek votes from their constituents relying on fossil fuels.

Coal and Gas definitely are cornerstones of our civilization . One of my favourite things is road trip and I cant do that without using these fossil fuels. The argument is not to suddenly and completely stop these fossil fuels but to do in stages. And yes, we are in a position to start our reliance on renewables GRADUALLY. Just look at europe. Yes, USA is too huge for their policies but you still can do a lot more than what you are doing now. Dont let people misguide you by saying that the climate crusaders are hell bent on killing jobs of fossil fuels guys or saying that renewables are equally and even more harmful. Its a pity that a lot of people are losing jobs in coal industry but thats part of progress. Computers killed lot of professions. Internet killed lot of professions. AI is going to kill lot of professions, most probably the one that I am pursuing. But does it mean that we have to stall them? We adapt to them. The problem with people in coal industry must be addressed but increasing our reliance on it is not the way.

Climate scientists want everyone to be happy and they don't care if republicans or democrats are in power.

reply

I do not see the point of this. No one will be swayed by any direct debate. You either accept the science or you do not. It is all available on Wikipedia or any other reliable, objective reference for people to investigate.
A more interesting debate would revolve around solutions, like building a smart electrical grid, making cities accessible, reviving local farms -- these things people can agree on more easily.

reply

"It is all available on Wikipedia or any other reliable, objective reference for people to investigate. "


Who in their right mind would call a website that advertises the ability to add or edit information anytime they want as a reliable, objective, or even truthful place to investigate? Even IF you have sources that say the information is true people make mistakes......scientists are people.....sometimes the numbers don't add up even if you really believe that they do.

reply

"OR ANY OTHER RELIABLE, OBJECTIVE REFERENCE"

Don't make me start calling you names now, I'm trying to be nice :~)

reply

"Don't make me start calling you names now, I'm trying to be nice :~)"


And THAT is the extent to your intelligence scale.....name calling. How utterly mature. Let me know when you grow up and decide to have a conversation for grown ups.

reply

Uncle. Shame on me for expecting to get thoughtful responses to what I actually posted.

reply

[deleted]

[deleted]