MovieChat Forums > The Deuce (2017) Discussion > What is this show about anyway?

What is this show about anyway?

posted 7 years ago by RoloTony (1160)
22 replies | jump to latest

First off, I like this show. I wanted to make that clear. It's light-years beyond the obvious comparison of, "Vinyl". And I like these, "Brothers" a lot more than I did the, "Brothers" in Fargo S3. That being said, I find myself drifting off into space a lot as I watch this. There is no story or conflict I am able to grab on to (yet). Is it about the brothers? Hookers? Porn? Pimps? If so, it's kind of like Seinfeld in that it's about - well - nothing. It's just the "Here's-what's-going-on-with-the-gang-now!" style. If you put the first two episodes into a book it would be the most boring book you've ever read. Right now it's being carried by excellent performances and visuals. But if some sort of story I can get sucked into doesn't surface soon, I'm afraid I'll drift further.

[–] Cookie.L.A. (2117) 7 years ago

<< There is no story or conflict I am able to grab on to (yet)... It's just the "Here's-what's-going-on-with-the-gang-now!" style. >>

I think where it's going will be about the characters played by the two biggest stars in the cast (James Franco and Maggie Gyllenhaal) proving themselves in new fields: one in running his own bar, the other in making porn films. I think they're the only two characters we've seen in their at-home lives, with family...which is kind of a tipoff that they're being developed the most intently.

Their stories will intersect at some point (perhaps by them becoming business partners, or dating.)
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[–] R_Kane (15828) 7 years ago

It's about the rise of the Adult Entertainment industry in the US, from the level of forbidden peep show to an industry with more income (no pun intended) than movies, video and video games, combined.

[–] Cookie.L.A. (2117) 7 years ago

<< It's about the rise of the Adult Entertainment industry in the US >>

With all due respect, I might venture that this provides the backdrop for the story.

It also has to be about the characters inhabiting that world, or it wouldn't be emotionally engaging (?) Especially as the show has been contracted to run for three seasons...
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[–] R_Kane (15828) 7 years ago

I can live with that. Please pardon my hyperbole. I understand that the projected narrative takes us into the mid 1980s, past Porn Chic (Deep Throat), but well before the Internet smut explosion (again, no pun intended). I think this, while certainly not being for everyone, is a serious series that gives us a context for why human desires, sadly, outweigh the quest for human needs. We want sex. We need air, water, food, shelter, and the rest of the hierarchy that Abraham Maslow outlined. The series also shows how much it profits one to go into a business that satisfies wants instead of needs.

[–] RoloTony (1160) 7 years ago

After Ep 3 I'm still not all that intrigued. Usually 3 eps is what I will give any new show to prove itself. I dunno....ugh. I know that's the subject matter - but it still comes across as fairly vile. I guess that's the intention, though.

[–] brux (14666) 6 years ago

Thanks .... OK, so we know what it is about ... but what is the "message"? What is the point?

[–] pankoeken (469) 7 years ago

It's about how annoying and disgusting new yorkers are.

[–] R_Kane (15828) 7 years ago

That, too. That's why I call Boston home!

[–] pankoeken (469) 7 years ago

Ha ha. I remember you mentioning that. So the disdain for NYC came before you made Boston your home or vice versa? You didn't attend Boston College by any chance, did you?

[–] R_Kane (15828) 7 years ago

No, NYC rocks. No problems at all with The City. I was born and raised in upstate New York, you know, cow county, Syracuse NY. There are two parts to New York State, upstate (e.g.) Syracuse, and downstate, (i.e.) Manhattan. I moved to Boston because I found it to be a more comfortable transition than moving from cow country to what Norman Mailer called "the capital of the 20th century," meaning New York.

No one in New York (the city) calls it New York City. It's New York! Everyone respects that.

I did not go to BC, but that's a canny guess. I matriculated at another Little Ivy League school, Union College, in Schenectady. New York. At the time, it had the fifth best English department in the country, and it fit my passion and my budget.

They gave me a generous scholarship, and my path was clear. I was quite fortunate. Sincerely, thank you for your interest, my friend.

[–] pankoeken (469) 7 years ago

Yeah NY is a blast to visit. Truth be told I loved the sleazy pre Giuliani Times Square NY. I should remember the NYC not necessary thing from visiting and more recently because Archer uses that line several times on the brilliant animated show Archer.

It's funny you mentioned the two parts of upstate NY. My sister posted some breathtaking autumn pics on facebook her boyfriend had sent her of his family's property in "cow country" and people were insisting she was mistaken since there was no pavement or skyline to be seen. Not sure where she said it was upstate but it looked straight out of a Washington Irving story.

I asked about BC because I'm an Atlantan and a lifelong Falcons fan. I was going to say thanks for Matt Ryan. All of which may be meaningless to you.

[–] R_Kane (15828) 7 years ago

I just re-watched Episode 3, and I now realize why this series is resonating with me more strongly than it may be with most others here: There was a time in my life when most, or at least many, of my friends were in what they called among themselves The Life, the world of working (prostituting) and procuring (pimping, madaming). This show is a very accurate depiction of the bottom rung of the three tiers of The Life, and I mean VERY accurate. The bottom is The Street. It is dangerous and desperate. The middle rung is The House. It is clean. It is safe. It pays much better than The Street. The top rung is The Call Girl. It pays a lot. A smart one (and remember that there are lots of different forms of smart) can write her (or his, because there are Call Boys [of either gender preference], whence the word "escort" derives) own fucking ticket. The Call Girl is an American Geisha, which means "artist" in Japanese. She is paid as much for her social--especially her conversational--skill as she is for her brilliance in the bedroom. Tricks pay to be seen with her. Tricks have no problems introducing her to people with enormous influence in their lives. BTW, very few working girls move UP this ladder. You don't move UP from The Street. The Street is either where you start, stay and die, or your final destination. The really talented working girls start as Call Girls, don't have a fucking parasite, I mean, pimp, make a bundle, find a great husband, and get out. Most succumb to drug addiction, money addiction, asshole pimp (please forgive the redundancy), and sink lower and lower. I will be fascinated to see if The Deuce explores the world I've just outlined. Even if it does not, it has totally nailed The Street. Bravo!

[–] Cookie.L.A. (2117) 7 years ago

<< The really talented working girls start as call girls, don't have a fucking parasite, I mean, pimp, make a bundle, find a great husband, and get out. >>

I don't think that world really changes much, in essence.

I don't know if you've read the book WORKING (1974) by Studs Turkel, but he interviewed all different kinds of Americans about all different kinds of jobs, from factory workers to executives.

The prostitute he profiled starts out as an expensive call girl, then talks about her eventual descent down through the ranks. She said she first got involved with heroin because her days were so boring. You slept late, got your hair done, went shopping, read the newspaper...waiting for the night to come so you'd go out on your one or two escort jobs. (I imagine if you had a couple wealthy regulars you were on call for, it was even worse, because you'd basically have to sit by the phone until these guys decided to fit you into their calendar.)

She claimed she started taking drugs to simply make the day more interesting, or go by faster.

I thought that was interesting.
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[–] R_Kane (15828) 7 years ago

One prostitute is a very small population sample, but Turkle got it essentially right. The profile for Working Girls is pretty repetitious: low self-esteem, intimacy-aversive, adult survivor of childhood incest.

[–] Cookie.L.A. (2117) 7 years ago

Yes. Those things factor in many addicts' stories. Few people keep doing hard drugs because their lives are just going so great. They're usually looking for an anesthetic.

[–] spacefink (92) 7 years ago

Like someone said, it's about the rise of the Adult Film Industry, and how these mobsters, prostitutes and business owners from 42nd St shaped the future of the business. Maggie's character is suppose to be based off of Annie Sprinkles. There is a couple of gags, if you pay attention, that also reference other noted characters of that whole scene (There's a guy who's shop or office gets raided by cops that has a slight resemblance to Al Goldstein in Episode 2. This is off the top of my head...). I can lament that it's slow but that's mainly because right now, they're really getting into the nitty gritty of all the prostitutes and the relationships they have with their pimps. It's not 100% obvious to me who's who either. For example, I don't know the name of the reporter who's investigating the prostitutes (Is it Angela? I forget), but she stands out the most to me. I'm not sure what roles some of these characters will play later on (like when Phil Prince and Vanessa Del Rio will show up, or whether Chelly Wilson shows up either, since she was a well noted theater owner.), or if they're just composites of real people and like you've noted, they'll just building a narrative around these characters...or maybe I'm thinking too many seasons ahead haha.

[–] R_Kane (15828) 7 years ago

I am very impressed by the writing and the research in episode 6, and, by extension, the writing and the research in this series. This is a terrific exposition of the social, political, legal and economic forces that created the single most lucrative entertainment industry in this country. When pimp Larry tells Darlene in, what?, circa 1975?, that she can start selling her autograph to tricks because she is a porn star now, that is a TOTAL presaging of how adult entertainment works in our day and age. And that's just one example. This show has the 1970s absolutely clocked. To me, this is even better than The Wire. It is outstanding at showing--rather than telling--us how changing social and legal values, combined with organized crime's cunning anticipation and apprehension of those changes--ultimately resulted in an industry whose income dwarfs video games, movies and home video.

The one false note is the female reporter who has no idea how to conduct an interview, is too stupid to be an actual reporter, and who is trying to report a story that has been known for over 2,000 years. It's like, "This just in: Hitler still dead."

[–] spacefink (92) 7 years ago

I agree that the female reporter comes across as a weak character. We have no sense of why she's there or what she's looking to get beyond just getting a story done. There were a TON of people back then who studied Times Square and had their reasons and why it was important for them to rehabilitate the neighborhood, and I know because I did my research on Times Square for my thesis, and I spoke to one researcher who told me their story. So much incredible research and so many stories from that period. Watching this show makes me want to dig up all the info I got from my thesis again.

Maggie Gyllenhaal's character (Candy) is the most intriguing so far. I loved the very tense scene between her and the Pimp and when he calls her one of the craziest people in the block because she refuses to work with protection.

[–] brux (14666) 7 years ago

This show is about James Franco's obsession with porn and bringing it to the movie screen. It's boring, and there can only be one thing worse than a movie with James Franco in it, and that is a movie where he plays twins. I watched a bit because it is free with HBO ... they'd have to pay me to watch it.

And if these freewheeling prostitutes and pimps are "writing their own ticket" why do so many of them end up dead?

[–] Moonglum9 (10709) 6 years ago

I would have guessed poop based on the title.

[–] NukaCola (24) 6 years ago

I agree. It's got a backdrop and some characters, but you feel it's a bit aimless and lacks a tangible story.

We just get to follow some girls getting into prostitution, Gyllenhall who might be switching from hooker into porn movies and James Franco who's getting involved with the mob.

But their stories just plod along a bit too slowly without a clear goal.
So it feels more like a "slice of life" kind of deal, than a good solid story.
Totally agree it's not something you'd want in a book.

[–] R_Kane (15828) 6 years ago

I like how this season is developing. In only the second episode of the season, it’s starting to show how adult entertainment is shifting from being based on elements of The Life (hookers and pimps) and cheap hustlers to a population of aspiring professionals, both in front of the camera, and behind it. Performers who have acting skills and aren’t “dead around the eyes.” Talent representation by professional agents, instead of pumps. Projects with a sense of humor as well as with a sense of sex, and with actual narratives. Yes, we still have what’s called gonzo Porn to this day, random, unrelated fuck scenes; but these are scenes that are compiled and taken from adult movies WITH STORIES. This ep hinted at the Adult Industry coalescing itself into a real industry, where awards matter, recognition matters, schmoozing matters. Most of the players, the folks from The Life, who got in on the ground floor of it, aren’t going to be around by the time that the elevator reaches the penthouse. If you’re enjoying this series, you’d probably also like the movie, Boogie Nights, with Burt Reynolds, Mark Wahlburg and Heather Graham.