What is this series trying to say about Religion and the Church?
do you think this series is trying to say something about religion and church and the lord ?
shareNo. I think it's just a drama with a church as its setting. It's basically the show Empire moved to a church instead of a record label. Like in Empire, the kids are vying for the father's attention. They may have some episodes that will have a message but it's not a religious show at all.
shareI disagree a tad. The church is the backdrop. But they are putting in some religious messages. Maybe I see it more because I'm not the most religious. Empire is based on Hamlet.
shareI did grow up going to church which is how I know this show is not about religious themes. Even if you aren't religious but studied any of the major religions in school as an elective you would know that this show is not about religion. Shows like "Touched by an Angel" or "7th Heaven" always had some moral at the end of each episode. Those were more religious or even spiritual in tone. Greenleaf is a family drama set in a church. A cheating husband, a gay husband, what appears to be a pedophile uncle, and a materialistic wife are not religious themes especially since there does not seem to be any lessons learned from anyone's transgressions. These characters are developed with these flaws to move the drama forward. The only theme that seems to be religious is the prodigal daughter returning in Gigi. You could take this show out of a church and set it in a family law firm with the same themes and it would work because the plots don't revolve around anything biblical. And I don't see anything about Hamlet in Empire. Hamlet was about a son who wanted to kill his uncle after the uncle killed his father and became king. Empire is more along the lines of King Lear but that's just my opinion.
shareI don't think this is what the OP was getting at when he or she asked this question (OP correct me if I'm wrong). I think what they were wondering is, does this show speak about the current state of the church, specifically the black church, and I would say it absolutely does. A lot of churches today are full of hypocrisy, such as what is being portrayed in this show. For example, you have the son that is preaching, leading Sunday school, etc. and he is married but sleeping with his father's assistant, all the while talking about God this and Jesus that (at least at church). Stuff like this happens in churches all the time and is probabaly one of the main reasons why so many people are turned off of churches and religion in general.
share@ejc35 - I agree. If the OP is asking if the show speaks to the state of the black church (or some black churches anyway) then it definitely does that. The hypocrisy is why it's a drama and not a religious show at all. They will probably bring in some moral lessons about redemption and forgiveness along the way though. The recent story line with the sick little boy was about letting go and let God so probably more of that to come on some levels.
shareI think it's just saying that religious people are human which is something not many shows based in church does.
"I'd rather lose for what I am than win for what I ain't"
Kacey Musgraves "Pageant Material"
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I agree with you. No one is perfect, not even people that are in church. I don't think it matters if it is a black church, white church or any religion. People are flawed, but it makes good drama to put it in a church setting where you would probably expect the people to be better than they are. This show is somewhat similar to the Lifetime movie called Pastor Brown. It was also good.
Yes to everything you said! I have been there and seen that. I am no longer among them. But, I do think that these characters are beyond "flawed." They are not really trying to live a Christ-like life. They commit their sins without any hesitation and with full self-justification.
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Look - Spartacus draws blood. ~ Lucretia
Right on, Ej! The first thing I thought of when I began watching this show was that this is a show about "false prophets", and Church Hypocrisy. I'm not familiar with black churches, but I know a lot about white churches. I've attended church for 55 years, and it seems that every time a church becomes a "megachurch", or when the preacher's wife is addressed as "Lady", or the pastor's family sits up before the throne of God "on stage", as if they were all royalty, you've got a church more interested in money and power than in preaching about Jesus. Just look at these churches on t..v. with the preacher's family up on stage in these cushy chairs, the set made to look like a living room - it's so phony. The only center stage should be Jesus.
That's what this show is trying to illustrate. This church is heavy-laden with pride.
The "Bishop", not Reverend, (is he really a bishop?), feels he's above the law enough to ignore a policeman' s request for him to call him back. His church is being audited - probably for good reason. He fears the audit might hurt his purchase of a new plane because Lady Puss can't ride commercial.
The Reverend's wife is not addressed as Mrs., but "LADY", who publicly refuses in front of her congregation to fly commercial. (and the congregtion doesn't even see how prideful she is!); "Lady" makes disapproving faces towards her own daughter, who is the Associate Pastor, doing this behind her daughter's back while "Lady" is facing the audience as she sits on her "throne".
Sexual sin is hidden; everyone knows Jacob is having sex with the Pastor's Secretary but turns their eyes because he is the pastor's son. He is shameless enough to violate the House of God by making it a sexual rendezvous, then shamelessly enters the sanctuary LATE and takes his seat/throne on stage with the rest of the family.
Grace, the Prophet is scorned by her own family for fear that she'll expose them. Her father loves her now, but just wait until his piggy bank, the new plane, and his status starts to crumble. Even the Prophet's name is GRACE. Jesus was Grace personified, and He was persecuted by the Pharisees, the "church workers" of His day.
Thank you for that answer. That is what i thought too. I think it was talking about hypocrisy and i also think it is showing that pastors and their families are just people like the rest of us and they have flaws too.
shareThere is another 'affair' going on in the church that no one has mentioned: Charity 's emotional affair with the gay music director. She's unhappy with her husband, doesn't trust him, then meets a gay man who tells her everything she wants her husband to tell her. I nearly died when he was telling her he was going to wire her up while she was in labour so she could sing "Joy to the World". He's a snake posing as a sheep, and I wouldn't be surprised if it turns out he was planted by someone who wants to destroy the church. Poor Charity doesn't even know what's going on, but she's telling him all her problems about her husband, when she SHOULD be telling her husband what's wrong.
Then, when she tells her husband that he must tell her the truth or he can't be with her. So he tells her he's had feelings for other men. Instead of putting her arms around him and saying, "Well get through this", or has them pray together, she goes all holy on him. "My pure sanctity, my moral perfection, just can't be in your sinful, imperfect presence." She didn't actually say it, but her actions certainly did. Then she goes into labour and ends up in the hospital. A perfect time to talk more, but her holiness cannot be in the presence of sin. It made me sick.
There is another 'affair' going on in the church that no one has mentioned: Charity 's emotional affair with the gay music director. She's unhappy with her husband, doesn't trust him, then meets a gay man who tells her everything she wants her husband to tell her. I nearly died when he was telling her he was going to wire her up while she was in labour so she could sing "Joy to the World". He's a snake posing as a sheep, and I wouldn't be surprised if it turns out he was planted by someone who wants to destroy the church. Poor Charity doesn't even know what's going on, but she's telling him all her problems about her husband, when she SHOULD be telling her husband what's wrong.
Then, when she tells her husband that he must tell her the truth or he can't be with her. So he tells her he's had feelings for other men. Instead of putting her arms around him and saying, "Well get through this", or has them pray together, she goes all holy on him. "My pure sanctity, my moral perfection, just can't be in your sinful, imperfect presence." She didn't actually say it, but her actions certainly did. Then she goes into labour and ends up in the hospital. A perfect time to talk more, but her holiness cannot be in the presence of sin. It made me sick.
"Empire" is based on the play Lion in Winter about Henry II of England.It is a fictional story.
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