MovieChat Forums > Rabin: The Last Day (2015) Discussion > This film is totally underrated

This film is totally underrated


This film must receive a much higher score. In fact, It is a "Cult" movie IMHO, that will gain much more momentum among enthusiasts of professional yet humble and caring Theater, and not only. In addition, those who wish to understand the roots of the Israeli-Palestinian struggle (inherent in general, in the internal struggle among Israeli Jews about Zionism's essence and it's course eventually), will delved willingly into it. Also, those who wish to take a course of action regarding the political future of Israel will Dive happily into it too. All these suggest, that we are dealing with a First Rate Docudrama film. One that not only brings things as they are, or even makes us understand them, but One that can change the reality.
By learning the documents it contains, this film helps us draw the right conclusions. This is not a film which works only on the Awareness, but One that is trying to change the Existence of events to come too. So IMHO, within such an Historical scale that deals not only with Rabin's murder but also with the whole Zionism's future, such a cinematic achievement like RTLD had not been accessed before.

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Thank you for the information.

My graduate degree is in European History, but my secondary area was Modern Middle East, so this grabbed my attention. I had not heard of this film until today, and there is a theatre somewhat close by that is showing it next weekend. I thought it looked pretty intense and well researched. Your post convinced me.

Can you tell me about the size and clarity of the subtitles? I had some eye surgery in January that did not go well, I think I am on the mend but I haven't tried a foreign language film since it happened.

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The subtitles are the usual kind; white. Which is TERRIBLE when the background is that of a white shirt, a white table cloth, etc. I had some difficulty reading them.

Best of luck to you in your recovery, and in reading this movie!

"God made man. Then he rested. And on the 8th day, God created George O'Brien."

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I appreciate the response; I am going to see this Saturday. It is a small theatre so I can probably sit close.

I have often wondered why the color of subtitles can't change depending on the background, I assume it would raise the cost of production. Even before my eye surgery I had some issues with the yellow subtitles a lot of films have started using.

I just found out Son of Saul is showing at the same theatre. I want to see that too, but I don’t think I should combine those two in the same day. Besides the subtitles there is disturbing content in both.

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Let me first get out the fact I hate the "Docudrama" genre. It's stupid.

I saw an add for it in the newsletter of my local indie theater and decided to check it out. I remember when Rabin was killed and I had a Jewish teacher who was pretty devastated about it right after it happened. I figured this movie would help me understand better what happened, and why. I thought this was a documentary, so I was initially disappointed.

I loved the use of archival footage. And though the dramatic acting scenes were informative, I thought this movie could have been better without them. Ultimately, at times I was bored, and nearly put to sleep, BUT I got the message of the film. I'm glad I saw it.

"God made man. Then he rested. And on the 8th day, God created George O'Brien."

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"And though the dramatic acting scenes were informative, I thought this movie could have been better without them.".
Can you explain and justify these words?
These are not dramatizations above reality parts of the movie, but an accurate transcription of what was said word to word. So why not refer to dramatic layers so important in this film, such as: the Committee deliberations, or ritual curse on Rabin ("Pulsa Di Nura") and etc. ? Without them, the film would have been incomplete and flawed by far.
The parts where you got bored, well, let me offer you to see them again. Ask yourself why they got you bored at the first place? Sometimes the deep things look boring because they require hard dive thinking: a will you'd lacked the first time (I myself saw thIs movie twice and hope to see it more). In my opinion every sentence in this film has a documentary backup & was meticulously selected.

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I will explain, but not justify.

It was dramatic acting. It was not comedic acting. This is considered a "docudrama". Mix of documentary, and dramatic scenes. I think you are taking my words to mean acting that was overly done. Too much, etc. That's not what I meant.

As for me getting a little bored, it wasn't due to my lack of "hard drive thinking". I think some of the recreations were longer than needed.

I still think the film could have been just as great, and a good deal shorter had it just been a documentary.

"God made man. Then he rested. And on the 8th day, God created George O'Brien."

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First: "Hard dive thinking" not "hard drive".😃
What I meant was, that perhaps you were simply tired in that very moment, nothing more.
Second: Still, you didn't explain (or justify) why the shortage of the scenes will do better with RTLD? you just mentioned that you didn't like them because "they were longer then needed"...o.k. but why?
IMHO the movie needed MORE dramatic stuff. for example: in the committee discussions, where the true ideas (about the criminal characteristics, based in the settlement achievement towards the Palestinian occupation), were delivered by the argument between the female lawyer and the Head of Committee: Those scenes were too short and hard to conceive, because they were concentrated with a huge amount of real time info.

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such an Historical scale that deals not only with Rabin's murder but also with the whole Zionism's future, such a cinematic achievement like RTLD had not been accessed before.


Agree with this, and I think that is the overriding value of the film.

I loved the use of archival footage. And though the dramatic acting scenes were informative, I thought this movie could have been better without them


I do think some of the dramatizations early on could have been cut down. I found the second half far more compelling than the first half.

Have mercy, Netanyahu did not come out of this looking very good. I had not realized that he gave speeches encouraging crowds who were likening Rabin to Nazis and Pétain. In fact those "crowds" were more like "mobs" and clearly calling for violence as a means to an end. Netanyahu kept going...

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I was pleased to read that you saw the film in spite of your sight problem.
For Netanyahu: I have no mercy on those who incited the mob against Rabin. And I think the film points directly towards him and his men. Israeli settlers act by his inspiration and leadership till today. And the (democratic) struggle is mainly to take them down from power in Israel and replace them with democratic government, anti-fascist, pluralistic and perhaps even socialist one: Such a government that can stop the illegal settlements and promote peace project. And just as a reminder: Rabin paid with his life for that matter precisely.

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What most people don't know is that Rabin's position about the peace process, etc, was more right wing shortly before he died than almost any right wing Israeli government has dared to be since he was killed.

Rabin did NOT say a Palestinian state should be formed. He knew that Israel would have to control the land in the Jordan Valley. He did NOT want to divide Jerusalem.

His last speech at the Knesset prior to his death is roughly as right wing as Israel's current government when it comes to the Palestinians.

His own daughter said that he was having second thoughts about the Oslo Accords before he died.

The actual date of Rabin's speech was Oct. 5, 1995. The prime minister was presenting the Oslo II Interim Agreement for ratification by the Knesset. The first Oslo Agreement that was signed on the White House lawn on Sept. 13, 1993. It was followed by the Gaza-Jericho Agreement in 1994. The Oslo II Interim Agreement applied to all the cities and major villages in the rest of the West Bank.

Oslo was only an interim agreement. But to get it approved, Rabin felt he had to lay out his ultimate vision of where he saw his negotiations with the Palestinians leading. Rabin firmly declared: "The borders of the State of Israel, during the permanent solution, will be beyond the lines which existed before the Six-Day War. We will not return to the June, 4 1967 lines." He never stipulated that Israel would have to pay for territory it would ultimately retain with "land swaps."

He also spoke about Israel retaining the settlement blocs, modeling them on Gush Katif in the Gaza Strip. Of course he did not know that ten years later, Prime Minister Ariel Sharon would dismantle Gush Katif along with all the settlements in Gaza. Nevertheless the idea of settlement blocs was very much part of his thinking: "Changes which will include the addition of Gush Etzion, Efrat, Beitar and other communities, most of which are in the area east of what was the 'Green Line,' prior to the Six-Day War."

One of the striking features of Rabin's map was what he said about the Jordan Valley: "The security border of the State of Israel will be located in the Jordan Valley, in the broadest meaning of that term." By saying the "broadest meaning of that term," he understood that Israel's defense line had to include the eastern slopes of the West Bank hill ridge, which rose from an area near the Dead Sea which was 400 meters below sea level to hill tops that in one case reached a height of over 800 meters.

This steep 1200 foot topographical barrier was Rabin's defense line. What needs to be recalled is that Rabin outlined these Israeli security needs even though his government had signed the Oslo Agreement two years earlier and even added the peace treaty with Jordan a year later. Seventeen years before the Arab Spring, what Rabin implicitly understood is that political conditions in the Arab world can change and that Israeli security cannot be based on a snapshot of the situation in 1995.

When Rabin began detailing his map he began with what meant most to him: "First and foremost a united Jerusalem ... as the capital of Israel, under Israeli sovereignty." In 1994, he concluded the "Washington Declaration" with King Hussein, which stated that Israel “respects the present role of the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan in the Muslim Holy Shrines in Jerusalem." It added that "when negotiations on the permanent status will take place, Israel will give high priority to the Jordanian historic role in these shrines.”

There are many who debate what exactly Rabin's legacy was. There are people who can point to private conversations they had with him to back their version of what he stood for. But Rabin's last Knesset speech cannot be ignored as the most authoritative source of how he envisioned Israel's future borders. The principles outlined in his plan, moreover, have not lost their relevance for Israel 17 years later.

http://www.israelhayom.com/site/newsletter_opinion.php?id=2805

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By learning the documents it contains, this film helps us draw the right conclusions.
The film's conclusions are wrong, though. Rabin's murder was an incredible tragedy for Israel, but it did not kill the peace process.

The Oslo Accords themselves killed any hope of peace. Israel's left wing bet the farm that they could make peace with Arafat and his second in command, Abbas, but they were betrayed by Arafat and Abbas. So the left wing lost everything, pretty much.

If you look at all the logos for the Palestinian state, every single one of them includes all of Israel in the logo. They see all of Israel as their state (or what must become their state someday) and they aren't kidding around about it.

Mahmoud Abbas says in Arabic that they have been under occupation for 68 years (meaning the day Israel was founded). They see Tel Aviv and every city in Israel as their land that they won't stop until they acquire.

It's nothing new. It's what Arafat was saying in Arabic in 1993.


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You quot me saying: "By learning the documents it contains, this film helps us draw the right conclusions."...But then, immediately, you write: "The film's conclusions are wrong".
Whose "film's conclusions are wrong"...yours??
I wonder.

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The film is wrong. You are wrong.

You have no idea what is happening in Israel and you are wildly ridiculous to claim that Rabin's murder caused the problems that already existed before he was murdered.

Rabin's murder is NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT the reason why there is no peace.

Can you get this through your head?



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I REST MY CASE

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I REST MY CASE
You have no case, which is why you are incapable of discussing this topic with me.


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Brief explanation:
Alyse_MA wrote: "Rabin's murder is NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT the reason why there is no peace.".
I never said so. never meant it and of course never thought so.
Never, Never, Never!
Conclusion: Either Alyse_MA is a complete moron (which i doubt) or She is a settlers's troll.
Hence: I rest my case.

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This is what you wrote:

For Netanyahu: I have no mercy on those who incited the mob against Rabin. And I think the film points directly towards him and his men. Israeli settlers act by his inspiration and leadership till today.

And the (democratic) struggle is mainly to take them down from power in Israel and replace them with democratic government, anti-fascist, pluralistic and perhaps even socialist one: Such a government that can stop the illegal settlements and promote peace project. And just as a reminder: Rabin paid with his life for that matter precisely.
Your implication is that there is no peace because Rabin was stopped (killed).

You want the overthrow of Israel's government so that Israel can go back to trying what Rabin tried to do.

Ironically, Netanyahu is not extremely popular with the "settlers" in Israel. They mostly like Naftali Bennett these days.

The Likud Party does win 25% of the votes beyond the green line (as Naftali Bennett also gets around 25% of the votes beyond the green line) but most of Netanyahu's votes for the Likud Party beyond the green line come from one city that is not at all like a settlement. It's a city close to Jerusalem called Ma'aleh Adumim.

Israelis don't believe in the Oslo Accords anymore or Israel's left wing. Too many Israelis have been killed as a result of the so-called "peace process" and the people of Israel will never listen to the left about this again.

The "settler" vote is roughly 10% of the Jewish vote in Israel. Not enough to win an election for anyone, especially since the Likud Party only gets around 25% of this 10% of the Jewish vote (which is about 75% of the votes in Israel).

It's the people of Israel who have elected Netanyahu four times since Rabin's death.

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The people of Israel will never accept the Oslo Accords again because the "peace partners" on the other side are openly hostile to Jews (not just Israelis) in too many ways.

The Palestinians celebrate when there is some grisly murder of Jews by Palestinian terrorists. They name their children's camps and sports fields after terrorists who murder Jewish children.

All of "Palestine's" logos include all of Israel as part of their expected new state. They don't draw lines showing where their areas are located. They call all of Israel by the name "Palestine."

Their demands from Israel just for talks are way too steep.

Israelis know all this and they don't believe (as a country) in this path anymore.

A movie about Rabin's death can't change this.

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If Rabin had lived, he would have lost the next election and he probably wouldn't have gotten back into power again. He would have become an older party leader with no chance of being the Prime Minister again.

Even with all the sympathy given to the Labor Party after Rabin's murder, the Labor Party lost the next election anyway.

Benjamin Netanyahu won - and it happened because the people of Israel were starting to realize that the Oslo Accords were wrongheaded and impossible.

Labor won the election after that (Ehud Barak won) and they got into the Camp David talks with Clinton and Arafat. The second intifada was launched by Arafat when these talks failed. Over a thousand Jews were killed.

The Oslo Accords are not popular in Israel today, for good reasons.

After the second intifada started, Ariel Sharon won two elections and then his party (Kadima) won an election while he was in a coma. Then Netanyahu came back to power and he's been elected in 2009, 2013 and 2015 (three times in a row).

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