Wait, what? (spoilers)


I am so confused & I guess kind of annoyed by this ending.

Gabriel dies in the 1800s, then haunts two generations of women in his family...for no apparent reason except to kind of inadvertently cause the death of one of them in order to have a mother in the after life? Why was he haunting her? He's semi-haunting his father the whole series, only to finally appear to tell him to join him in the afterlife...but then is content with the girl being his new mother. And does it in a way that implies that that is what he wanted the entire time?

And where did all the other ghosts come from? The boys in the mine, the woman in the mill and the soldiers. Are we to believe that the ACTUAL CAR from the future is what spoiled the land and then made the ghosts appear? How!? And if not, why were there ghosts in the first place and what made them go away.

I am frustrated. Can anyone shed some light on this, or are do you have questions as well.

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Time shift and stuff. Don't think too much about it. I really enjoyed it.

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I don't understand that either. Found it sooo slow and boring. Could have had so much potential.

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What bugs me is Gabriel's mother is not mentioned once. Nathan had to be married and Gabriel had to have had a mommy at one time. Did she die in labor? Or an accident... That was a loose end within the story.

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OK if you have NOT watched all eps do not read further............................................................................................................................................................







Right at the end there is a group of people , probably from the 1920-30 who are holding a science to speak to him and they ask "well did you kill your wife" and also the ipad girl from current times sees a women covered in blood ..... hope this means a second series.

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The girl she sees covered in blood is the possessed neighbour girl (daughter of the vicar) from the first episode.

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Thanks did not notice that...which makes it even stranger.

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His first wife, Gabriel's mother, died... somehow... but it's never explained. The people holding the seance are referring to his second wife, Charlotte (the main female character throughout the series), though as we saw the murder hasn't happened yet for Nathan and Charlotte.

edit: At least that's how I understand it. The look on Nathan's face, to me, seemed to be confused shock like, "Wait, what? OMG, I'm going to kill Charlotte?! WTF?!"

It doesn't seem likely that someone as devastated by the loss of his son as Nathan was would have the capacity to kill his first wife and not be affected by it. He's far too empathetic and sensitive to be carrying on as usual if he did kill wife #1.

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Hopefully it will be resolved with a 2nd series.

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Honestly, it never entered my mind that they could be referring to anyone but his first wife. I binge watched the entire series on iplayer and was bothered by the conspicuous absence of mentioning his first wife's death, despite showing her grave. after that scene it was like a constant buzzing in my ear that there was something up with that.

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Yes. Until then, I had assumed she had died in childbirth, but the ending blew that open. Given his behaviour when Charlotte was expecting, one wonders if he had had a similar breakdown previously?

"Active but Odd"

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I certainly thought the girl covered in blood was the vicar's daughter, as the is a scene in episode 1 where she presents herself with what would nowadays be assumed to be self-harm injuries to her arms.

But the 20s/30s people, I think you're right with the period placing, I assumed were talking about Charlotte - it bothered me that we didn't know how/why his first wife was absent but I wrote it off in my mind as death in childbirth.

Your suggestion that he killed her would be an interesting slant I must admit I didn't consider, and could even explain his restless guilt over Gabriel as he left him without a mother... If he had a mother to watch over him would he have drowned?

But then again, that would be a dead end plot line, whereas killing Charlotte would give grist to a second series - the sentimental in me doesn't want her murdered though, I sort of want a semi-happy ending, which was robbed from us in the last 5 seconds of this series!



darker than biscuit, lighter than oak

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Exactly, why wasn't the boy's mother (dead?) with the boy in the afterlife?? I don't see how someone wrote this, it doesn't make sense.

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I thought at the end by 'why did you kill your wife?' they meant Gabriel's mother? I hope there is another series, really enjoyed it!

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Didn't get the car but either though :-/

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I realise it's a ghost story and you take it as you find it but there has to be a thread of consistency for me to be convincingly absorbed by the story and unfortunately, as interesting and compelling as this story is, season 1. is lacking some good consistent foundation, though I think season 2 should tie up those lose ends.

(Spoilers!)

My assumptions :-

As chronologically out of place as anything could be, I don't think it's the presence of the VW car buried in a field in 1894 that's caused all the problems, as it wouldn't explain how the car got there in the first place. It's more likely the mineral the children were mining, that's the source of all the problems.
It would help explain many of the goings on if the entire foundation of the estate sat on the same mineral bedrock which was disturbed historically during the mining process and as a result caused all sorts of electromagnetic issues and time anomalies.
You'll also note that much of the mineral was laying on the surface of the soil and the farm hands were instructed to collect it up by Harriet, which they hadn't been told to do before, This would explain why the happenings had started up again - to quote the surviving mining boy - (now an old man)

It would be believable that such an intense electromagnetic field across the estate could change visual perception (without the need for magic mushrooms!) and you could stetch your imagination a little more to imagine that these effects would be more likely to effect families that had grown up there and therefore across generations making them possible more sensitive.
You could explain all of these occurrence bar one, the car, this is the only instance in the entire series where a physical touchable object appears to have permanently moved back in time, so maybe we're only seeing the car as an upturned yellow VW from her perspective as she suddenly remembers the accident. Everyone else sees it maybe for what it possibly really is.... an upturned mining wagon.

One clue here is that Gabriel said 'the baby was fine because her husband had come and got him' and we all saw the baby in the booster seat just before the accident, which means the car must have been in the 21st century during and after the accident in order for the baby to be rescued in the 21st century.

There was very little mentioned about his previous wife or how she died, she obviously wasn't given ghost previlages! as her ghostly apparition never appeared through the series. Another inconsistency maybe or perhaps she wasn't dead? The seance at the end proposed that he killed her though you'd be forgiven for assuming they were referring to the moment Harriet held the glass of deadly nightshade to her lips, suggesting he didn't knock the glass out of her hand after all, and they both actually died. Which would imply everything we saw from that moment on including the VW retrieval was as ghosts in some disembodied reality....

We'll just have to wait and see....











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Sorry meant to say Charlotte not Harriet !

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I can appreciate parts of your explanation. There could have been something in the mine, this family might be sensitive to it, or cursed by it. And I am definitely interested by your last point, the wife did actually drink the night shade. But what bother me is the show made absolutely no attempt to tie anything together. It just showed us this fantastical time travelling ending and then figured we would forget about all the plot holes. I think if you have to try to justify a show and theorize what they meant in over three paragraphs, then they have done their viewers a disservice.

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They do say a good story leaves the audience thinking for a long time.... so it's had the desired effect in that respect.
For me the appearance of a vapor trail and iPad in a what started as a traditional period ghost story was what initially took my interest. So I guess designed to reach out to a larger audience. So I think they will have to have followed through in season 2. with a logical cause which ties together all those disparate contrived occurrences or they may as well end the story with the explanation that the maid had a wicked sense of humor and fed everyone magic mushrooms from her stash for the entire series.......after all she did get around a bit!





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My take is that they were ghosts haunting ghosts, stuck in a sort of limbo in which time doesn't function the same way. Nathan and Charlotte and the farmers were all ghosts who don't know they're ghosts. They're haunted by other ghosts--Gabriel, the kids who died in the mines, the roundheads. The woman with the ipad and VW was alive in our modern time, experiencing hauntings, up until she dies in the car crash. You can think of them finding her car in the bog kind of like a psychic echo of how she died being transferred into this timeless limbo. The people who do the seance at the end are alive (presumably they're not just more ghosts) and contact Nathan, who is a ghost. They ask him why he killed his wife. Maybe, from his perspective, he thinks he's still alive and so doesn't realize he killed/kills Charlotte later in life. Maybe that's what that look was on his face when they asked him--the realization that he's a ghost, too.

For most of the series, I thought Charlotte was Gabriel's mother. She seemed to carry a lot of guilt surrounding his loss. But in the last episode, when they were talking as Nathan was about to kill himself, it seemed like she met and married Nathan after Gabriel had died, unless he had some other darkness and sorrow in him from a prior event(s). I'm a little unclear on all of that.

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Victoria was Gabriel's Mother though we never saw Victoria only her tomb stone along side Gabriel's. We saw that scene when Harriet was throwing a possessed wobbly and tried kissing Nathan, just before they looked up and saw the vapor trail in the sky.
It was never explained how Nathan's first wife (Victoria) died.All we are told is that he went off and got himself a new wife (Charlotte) who'd never previously had children but eventually became pregnant by tying a piece of string to her toe attached to a camera!!

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Oh, yeah! I remember now. Haha. Thanks!

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I should have said Olivia instead of Victoria. Victoria was Nathan's Mother. Olivia was Nathan's first wife and Mother to Gabriel .

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My take is that they were ghosts haunting ghosts, stuck in a sort of limbo in which time doesn't function the same way.


hehe, If that's true, then when does DCI Gene Hunt show up? (lol)😎

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"The seance at the end proposed that he killed her though you'd be forgiven for assuming they were referring to the moment Harriet held the glass of deadly nightshade to her lips, suggesting he didn't knock the glass out of her hand after all, and they both actually died. "

If that were the case then who gave birth to the future generation?

money can`t buy you back the love that you had then - Feist "1 2 3 4"

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I agree it would rubbish what we've understood to unfold later in the future but then the rationality of descendants from the future having an interactive effect on their ancestors in the past is an untenable paradox anyway....So I think it's fair to assume the author was using quite large helpings of artistic license in this aspect of the story ....and maybe a glass or two of Merlot

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I found myself very impatient with the series - I just felt that it was too reliant on familiar 'spooks' when it appeared to be doing something more interesting at the margins (like the implication of intersecting timelines at the end of the second episode or the rural setting to distinguish the traditional indoor ghost story).

I was very disappointed that the episodes immediately reverted to type after the second episode, and fast forwarded through most of the series out of sheer boredom and frustration. It was only after reading the excellent summary (and questions) provided by pascom and panopticonartist that I decided to complete the final episode and found myself suitably impressed.

But I maintain that the series lacked the required style to make it effective - it should have been two episodes shorter and in greater command of its 'story' to make its 'spooks' more shocking and eerie.

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To be fair, fast forwarding probably gave you a realistic glimpse of just how many ghosts were included in the story. From a subtle introduction to almost ghostpocolypse!. Ghosts have no scientific foundation away from psychology, but time travel has, if only in theoretical physics, so maybe the wide appeal is that it grounds these to formally separate schools of thought as in a way ghosts are time travelers too

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I didn't see much evidence of time travel in the show, let alone the need to provide a scientific basis for all the time anomalies. In fact, the show seems to mock the idea of reducing trauma or character to the realm of 'explanation'.

From what I could tell, we were witnessing intersecting or parallel time lines. The suggestion seemed to be that the living and dead converged on a plane of existence or passed through one another's lives in some way (the estate seemed to be the point of convergence)

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It's true ghosts stories generally negate any logical grounding for an explanation and you could also assume the aircraft vapor trail was a meteor skipping across the atmosphere, but for me the apparent evidence of a VW upside down in the mud in the late 19 century needed explanation, which I'm assuming it was designed to provoke ?

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What I didn't understand was Gabriel had drawn a picture of the woman from our time while he was alive..so was he seeing her before his death and if so how was that possible.

Also I assume that Gabriel was looking for a new Mommy so he would appear to family members who had just had babies. The grandmother said that the woman's mother had also seen the boy and she took her own life...so why didn't she become Gabriel's new mom. The big question though is where was his real mother and why couldn't he find her in the afterlife ?

Still loved the series and want to watch it again. Hope there is a season 2

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We're led to believe that Gabriel had seen and drawn several pictures of the girl with the iPad before he drowned, in the same way that Nathan Appleby (his Dad), had seen her. How living people see eachother across time is the mystery, and the clues (in my opinion) lay in the mine - but I hesitate to mention time travel!..
We never see or hear anything about Nathan's wife and Gabriel's Mother - Olivia, throughout the entire series, We are only shown her name on a tomb stone which is inconsistent, so why she should be the exception to the rule we don't know, she may have gone missing presumed dead but is really alive and we'll see her in the next series - maybe ?

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My guess about Gabriel's mother is unlike all the other characters she is dead but not a ghost. That maybe she had died of natural causes and her spirit has gone on but Nathan and Gabriel and many of the others seem stuck in time, bound to the estate or at least Earthbound until they can get closure and move on themselves.

Gabriel seems to have gotten what he needs to do that but Nathan has unresolved issues to deal with so he's still there.

This series is so similar in many ways to the movie The Others with Nicole Kidman. In that movie...Spoilers if you haven't seen it.. the Ghosts were also unaware they were dead and bound to their house. The house has been sold and time had gone on, a new family lived there but to the ghosts it is still the early 1900's. The ghost family can sometimes see and hear the present day family and are always very scared of them. They stay stuck in limbo until the mother remembers and can accept what she did, then they finally can have some peace.

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Yes I remember 'The Others', several people have made reference to it here as reminiscent of some parts of this story. I'm generally not a great fan of ghost stories but I'll have to watch it again, after all, anything with Nicole Kidman in is worth watching more than once...

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In the 1st episode, right before she dies, Victoria Appleby holding a globe (world within a world) looks up, weak (heavy with grief) smile, Gabriel? Woman's voice calling for Nathan, presumably Olivia, but she doesn't recognise who it is. The same globe breaks in the car crash, Gabriel moves on? Harriet possessed by Able North has an interest in the housekeeper, someone with eldritch knowledge. She/he attempts to baptise her, why? In the scene where Charlotte implies one of the farmhands damaged the engine, John with conviction, says nobody here would do that, all present hold there heads up as he says this, looking her in the eye, except the housekeeper. Nathan seems to be a focal point for what's happening, the infamous Nathan Appleby, but theres a dark history. In a scene with Nathan and Harriet they discuss his work in London, there's a suggestion that they dabbled in the occult (he has ouij board) and she became damaged, maybe died under his care or suicide but blames himself? Lara and her mother began to experience disturbances at childbirth, the grandmother doesn't 'admit' to anything, but theres a suggestion that perhaps she knew there was more going on at the time of her daughters problems, perhaps she hoped to escape the troubles? Olivia Appleby dies in the year her son was born, supposing she was disturbed at the time, was this disturbance resulting from dabbling in the occult or something else? The housekeeper is quick to oblige Nathan when he asks for access to her eldritch skills. She encourages Charlotte to leave then decides to stay herself when she won't. Who are/where the housekeeper, Mr Payne and the travelling preacher?

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I think the girls voice calling for Nathan in the house during the bonfire, is quite likely possessed Harriet, because she mimics Victoria at the grave stone and repeats the same words Victoria said just before she died.
And what appears to be the Vienna city hall in the snow globe, seems to take center stage throughout the series which implies it has some significants, though being a recent present from Nathan on his return from Vienna, it shouldnt have any real family connection ?

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Oops Significance

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I've read the entire thread which leads me to only one conclusion: The writer was trying to be too clever for his own good.
I loved Life on Mars along with well written ghost and time travel based stories, so was really looking forward to this.
But sadly, this seems firmly aimed at the American market where most things English and historical are lapped up however poorly they're written.
And this, to me, left too many unanswered questions and had too many ludicrous twists that had me almost wincing. I don't like everything neatly tied up with a bow, but this became almost farcical.
It also seems like the final scene was bolted on in order to ensure a second series once it's broadcast on BBC America in October and finds acclaim there.
Just...disappointing.

If the opposite of Love is indifference, what's the opposite of Hate?

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I agree with this, I also felt the writers were trying to be too clever for their own good and come up with a twist that would be hard to predict. My partner actually joked about Gabriel's drawing being of "ye olde iPad" and then that turned out to be exactly what it was! Farcical is a good word for it all right. I found the whole thing just didn't work.

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