I tried researching this but I wasn't really satisfied with the answers I was getting
Basically what I'm seeing is that a religion is an old cult and a cult is a new religious movement. Is that really all there is to it?
There is none. They all tout "believe as I do, or you're a bad person". Other than some cults restricting access to friends and family... that's always a tell tale sign.
shareA cult is a religion that hasn't been around long enough to claim "all those uneducated peasants can't have been wrong" yet
shareYes, that is the initial definition of a cult, and just like everything else, language evolves which is what happened to the use of the term "cult".
Scholars in the 20th century use the term to describe spiritual movements/religious that utilize certain elements like:
Mind control/manipulation, abuse, isolation, and members that joined the cohesive persuasion
So pretty much all religions?
shareWell I understand your sentiment, but religion is less secretive and more open. You won't be disowned if you leave most religions and don't have to worry about extremely organized,targeted intimidation if you leave and talk about your experience. They don't use what they learned while you were a member, to blackmail you and destroy your life.
But again, I totally understand where you are coming from.
Oh OK, I get that. Thanks for your response. I was concerned my question would come across as facetious when it was actually genuine. I was brought up as a strict catholic but renounced it at the ripe old age of 11. I'm not religious but I am interested in theology, especially re the connection between the three major abrahamic religions. I just never knew where the line in the sand was between religion and cults.
Cute avatar!
I'm going to strongly disagree with most of these posters. Every religion is not a cult. A cult is a pretty distinct organization with some specific behaviors. And for the record I am not religious, do not attend church and I'm not defending any particular religion. Most religious organization have some similar aspects to cults but there are major and distinctive differences.
- They have an authoritarian leader who is not just seen as a leader of an organization but actual spiritual prophet. (ex The Pope is a pretty strong leader but no one in the Catholic Church places him above Jesus or God)
- There is absolutely no dissent with said leader and anyone who does is punished, "retrained" or expelled. (See David Miscavage)
- They isolate themselves from family friends and neighbors - usually within a compound. They have little to no contact with the outside world and what contact they have is monitored. (Scientology has numerous compounds, access to internet is limited, phone calls monitored and they often have "minders" when they leave the property)
- An important aspect of the religion is that members are required to narc on each other to keep each other honest.
- They are almost impossible to leave of one's own volition.
( This one I have some personal experience with: 25 years ago I took two classes from the local scientology center. After exploring the organization and reading their material I decided it wasn't for me. No ill will, no ugliness - just wasn't interested. To this day, I get calls from Scientology, and I get constant mailings from them. I have repeatedly called and asked to be taken off the mailing list to no avail. I have asked nicely, I have screamed and yelled, no luck. Every single time I have moved in the last 25 years they find my new address and the mailings continue. From conversations I've had with them I know for a fact, that they have completely miscatigorized my involvement. According to their records, I'm an official member (never happened I had a 90 day free trial membership - never paid the fees to join) I've taken classes within the last few years (nope - 25 years ago) So when you hear Scientology talk about how big they are remember this - they own a lot of real estate which gives them square footage but not actual members. And the number of members is undoubtedly inflated with people like me.)
During my years of spiritual seeking I've never encountered an organization like Scientology. I've never seen a church apply the kind of pressure or make the demands that it does. yes there are cult like aspects of some churches and their followers. But that is not the same as actually being a cult.
Thanks I wanted to say this as well. It's disheartening to read these somewhta glib "nah all the same" answers. It's dangerous.
Another difference is language, cults often change the language to create a barrier using new words to describe concepts and make members feel above the uninitiated and obscure problems using dogma.
While they are "only" quantitative differences, they do change the equation and make cults more dangerous and harmful than old religions. Christianity mellowed out a lot so in that sense it's true.
Seriously? How familiar are you with the history of the catholic church?
The Pope is a pretty strong leader but no one in the Catholic Church places him above Jesus or God
There is absolutely no dissent with said leader and anyone who does is punished, "retrained" or expelled
They isolate themselves from family friends and neighbors - usually within a compound. They have little to no contact with the outside world and what contact they have is monitored.Have you not heard of monasteries and convents?
Almost every example you gave is hundreds, if not thousands, of years old. Churches have changed just as society has changed. It's not fair to compare modern cults with churches as they were 100's of years ago.
As for the nun's threatened with excommunication: If pro-life is one of the major tenets of your religion and a nun is advocating for abortion - then it's not unexpected that someone would be removed from their position. (And I say that as a firmly pro-choice woman) But lets look at what excommunication actually is:
- For a nun or priest it would mean defrocking (so basically getting fired from a job).
- They are still considered as Catholics,
- they are still allowed to attend services as they wish.
- they are *not* allowed to take the sacrament.
-and there are methods by which an excommunication can be lifted - such as making amends, acts of faith etc.
That's not how cults act. Someone who is removed from a cult is removed period. They are typically considered damaged and no one is allowed to associate with them.
As for monasteries and convents - It's true that in it's history entering either was considered a lifetime irrevocable commitment. Especially for women, who were treated as property in society anyway. But that's no longer the case - priests and nuns have each left the the church. It's not common, but the process to become either is long and arduous, specifically to weed people out before they take their final vows. But it does happen and they are free to leave the convent No one is preventing them from leaving.
Look as I said in my 1st post, all churches have some aspects of "cult like behavior" It's not hard to find them. (Hell Crossfit is more cult like than a lot of churches) But most modern mainstream churches don't have all of them - or even the (worst) most important ones.
There are some "churches" that fall in some really grey areas. Those tend to be some really radical extremely conservative churches. Groups like "Quiverfull" or even Westboro imo are a lot closer and truer to the model of an actual cult.
Politics and money.
shareonly real difference is taxable legitimacy,
technically Scientology is a religion, has religious tax exemption, which is total bull
you don't trust someone who says "the greatest way to make money is to start your own religion"
Religious tax exemption is bull in general though. All organizations should be treated the same way in that regard, fairytales or no fairytales.
shareIt generally comes down to the level of control and isolation they impose on their members. Do they tell you what job you should have? Do they try to limit communication with friends and family who aren't in the group?
Obviously there are plenty of gray areas. For example, a lot of religions discourage marrying outside of their faith, but if they start to tell you you can't socialize with other people, it's probably time to look for the door.
As a good rule of thumb, if you're involved with a group and find yourself asking "Is this a cult?", the answer is almost certainly "yes".
Personally, I like to play it safe and simply avoid religion entirely. Why take a chance?