MovieChat Forums > The Crown (2016) Discussion > The purpose of monarchy

The purpose of monarchy


http://mythfolklore.net/aesopica/milowinter/25.htm

Current events in the USA make us Brits particularly glad to say 'God Save Queen Log'.

Or alternatively, as Hilaire Belloc put it -

Always keep a hold of Nurse,
For fear of finding something worse.

reply

I'm American and from what I get from your post is that you're basically saying, "Elizabeth II is better than Trump." Well answer me this: Did Trump get rich off the taxpayer money, was he a usurper of the people's money? Your Queen Elizabeth is just rich out of taxpayer money and she and her whole family can go around the world enjoying themselves off of your money that you work hard for. Queen Elizabeth doesn't have to pay taxes. You've been stuck with her for 60 years, giving her your money to enjoy and live in BuckingHam and Balmoral or wherever. They get to escape the London gloom whenever they wish. And you already know who your leader will be when you're old and dying (which will most likely be little baby George). So talk about hope!

On our side, at least we have the opportunity to vote Trump out in four years. Even though I hate the guy, he did pay his taxes on money which he made. He didn't get rich off the taxpayers dime, or schilling as you call it. Even though he hasn't released his tax returns (Americans: yes he managed to avoid paying some taxes due to all his bankruptcies and other loopholes) but he did pay some taxes like state income tax which is harder to get out of rather than federal. Queen Elizabeth has an around $50 billion net worth, all by robbing the people while they were on rations after the war. Trump is only going to be able to make around $250'000 a year and will not be allowed to make money off of his business (unless of course if he breaks the law). That's why he had to put all his businesses in a blind trust (which I feel won't be blind at all).

Hey, if I had to choose 4 years of Trump vs. 4 years of Queen Elizabeth, I might choose the latter. But 60 years of Queen Elizabeth? C'mon!?!

reply

She doesn't have to pay tax (but she does anyway)
http://www.businessinsider.com/weirdest-powers-queen-elizabeth-ii-british-sovereign-prerogative-swans-dolphins-2015-5

as opposed to Donald Trump who brags about not paying taxes

reply

She's been paying taxes since 1992??? You know she became Queen in 1952 right? That's 40 years of not paying taxes and usurping the peoples money. And the monarchs before her didn't pay taxes so she grew up wealthy while the children of her people grew up poor. And her "capital gains tax" is most likely because she started investing her money after the hoopla that her son was creating and making the monarchy more unpopular each day. The dissolution of the monarchy was becoming an absolute each day Charles bashed Diana in the press. So it's good she invested the money cause if the monarchy was abolished she would end up with didley squat.

And Trump paying little taxes, a lot of taxes, or no taxes at all is not the point. He made his money not by robbing the people and calling it "taxes."

reply

Most Americans try their hardest to pay the least tax as possible and they brag about it amongst each other. Meanwhile people who don't work or even pay in taxes get 5 figure 'tax refunds.' Most of us producers know our tax system is *beep* up.

The IRS is one of the most serious investigative agencies in the world. If they could catch Trump doing something illegal we'd know about it already.

reply

Yes, I'm sure you're a very important "producer" for the American economy. Wherever would we be without you?

reply

Actually Trump's dad got rich off taxpayer money building shoddy housing for U.S. veterans and taking taxpayer money to do it. Trump got rich because his dad gave him $14 million when he was in his 20's which he foolishly used on vanity projects to the point where he'd be worth more if he'd just left the money in an S&P 500 index fund, he'd be richer than all his real estate, failed casinos, and tacky licensing deals have made him. He's America's Silvio Berlusconi but worse and hopefully is impeached in two years, though his VP is a clown, at least he's a human, and not a caricature of one.

reply

This clown. trump, did not pay his taxes and he's deep into it with Putin. That's why he won't release them. Wikileaks wants them and will release them in order to burn trump for not paying him after he followed trumps orders to release Hillary's emails. It was supposed to be a quid pro quo but trump stiffs all of his contractors and Assange Is no different. Sucker.

reply

Mvrk, what I'm saying is that you've just had the most violent change of government it's possible to imagine short of actual armed conflict. The new head of state has brought in all his own creatures, so there is nothing left of the previous regime or way of thinking at all. Quite apart from what you or anyone may think of the man himself, this has got to be really destabilising for the country.

A constitutional monarchy gives continuity and stability; no one politician can suddenly be the all-powerful top nob, answerable to no-one. There's a least an experienced hand on the brake.

reply

Tell me this: Do you realize Prince Harry having all those vacations in Las Vegas where he was even photographed nude while playing strip poker with a bunch of girls is because of the taxes you paid? I've been to London and people live in such small apartments and small homes. Your Monarchy has had so many places to vacation off to which they own. Why do they get a free ride? I mean I've met so many Englanders who just blindly defend the monarchy. When Dodi's dad insinuated that Queen Elizabeth orchestrated the murder of Diana, my British friend who was in college with me said one of the stupidest things I ever heard. He basically said, "You just can't say something bad about the King and Queen and get away with it!" I mean he was utterly shocked that someone was insulting his Queen. Here in America we can insinuate about Trump all we want. And you can read all the replies on this very same thread which proves my point. Everyone on this thread is basically insinuating that Trump never in his whole life paid taxes and he got rich over the tax payer money. And no one is saying how dare they make fun of or insinuate our President!

To all the others on this thread I'll just say this: Trump made his money by building skyscrapers with expensive apartments which the wealthy bought. People like your national treasure Andrew Lloyd Weber, and our very own Bruce Willis etc. He then made the most of his money after the bankruptcies by licensing his name out to hotels rather than building hotels himself. This is all before The Apprentice and before he went cuckoo with all his birther madness. I don't think the hotels will keep the Trump name anymore as Mark Cuban stated, "His brand is toast!"

The Monarchy has looted and plundered all the nations of the commonwealth. The Indian subcontinent was a wealthy kingdom and now the children there run aroundon the street without shoes or clothes. Apartheid in South Africa started under British rule. Heck they even invaded China which led to the British-Japanese war which eventually resulted in the Japanese attacking Pearl Harbor. I've got nothing good to say about your monarchs. When baby George was born I felt sad. It's because I thought Wow, the British already know who their ruler will be 60 years from now and that's the little baby you all will be paying for to go to Eton and then onto Oxbridge before the eventual partying and playboy lifestyle. Here in America we still have hope but your country will still be arguing weather the Monarchy should be abolished or not as the Monarchy brings in loads of tourism money.

Yeah Trump is a lunatic, but a lunatic which we will hopefully be able to elect out in 4 years unless he claims to be Emperor and establishes a monarchy and abolishes all elections.

Open your mind and push for full democracy.

reply

So you can provide an example of how the constitutional monarch has "put a hand on the brake"? Sounds insane to breed the aristocracy to perform this function just because of their bloodline.

As for "continuity and stability", I assume you also blame the queen at moments of instability? Can't have it both ways.

reply

Here's one. When Margaret Thatcher was struggling to keep her place as leader of her party and Prime Minister, she thought of calling a snap General Election, because that would have consolidated her position - you couldn't have a power struggle during the run-up to an election. But she was advised that she couldn't do this, because a Prime Minister has to ask the Monarch's consent to dissolve Parliament, and without a better reason than that, the Queen would not have given her consent.

reply

Every monarch George III to Elizabeth II has surrendered the annual profits of the Crown Estate to the government in exchange for a salary. The monarch's Crown Estate currently pays over £200 million to the government every year and the government pays the royal family £40 million. In effect, the government gets a £140 million profit. This arrangement is separate from the taxes HM started paying in 1992. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bhyYgnhhKFw

https://www.thecrownestate.co.uk/media/761966/annual-report-and-accounts-2016.pdf

reply

I wish you'd stop spreading this myth in an effort to try and trick people into believing the Windsors are personally sacrificing millions annually for the good of the state. Even the royals' website makes clear that the crown is a separate legal entity.

The current arrangement works out enormously in the Windsors' favour, as it was designed to work in George III's favour by bailing him out of debt.

reply

HM The Queen is the Head of State, but not the Head of Government unlike the U.S. President who is both in the same person. Our countries have two different systems that have been adapted and changed over time. I understand and appreciate the way your constitutional monarchy and Westminster Parliamentary system work, but I would not conclude one system of government is better than the other. You must remember European monarchies were unable to prevent World War I and several monarchies fell one-by-one.

Your incoming Prime Minister is able to appoint people to the Cabinet immediately without any approval from any body. The U.S. President, on the other hand, nominates appointees to his Cabinet and hundreds of federal court judges throughout the country, but every single nomination must be vetted by a Senate committee and confirmed by the full Senate which is not always successful. Your Prime Minister, on the other hand, does not have these limitations when forming HM Government. But she does have a weekly meeting with HM where The Queen has the right to be consulted, the right to encourage, and the right to warn.

The United Kingdom has a devolved government within a unitary state whereas the U.S., Canada, and Australia are federations. The central government, the UK Parliament, can revoke the independence of the subunits (Scottish Parliament, Welsh National Assembly, Northern Ireland Assembly) without changing the constitution. In contrast the independent subunits of the states of the U.S., the states of Australia, and the provinces of Canada cannot be dissolved without changing the constitution which is extremely difficult.

The U.S. President is not an absolute monarch. Even though he recently signed an executive order banning people from certain countries from entering the U.S., the federal courts were able to block his executive order because the order was unconstitutional.

Each state in the U.S. has its own government as well. If a state government feels the federal government or president has passed any law they feel is unconstitutional, the state can file a lawsuit in federal court. The state of California is already shoring up defenses to fight the president in court if he attempts to rollback any political gains in California.

What you currently witnessing in the U.S. is the system of checks and balances coming into play.

reply