MovieChat Forums > The OA (2016) Discussion > fantasy or reality.

fantasy or reality.


I guess it comes down to one of two things - we have a reliable narrator, or an unreliable narrator.

there are various points that support both viewpoints. If she is reliable, even if we believe that she is "making the story up" we know that Homer does exist because she searched him on the internet and found him. This is partly supported by the fact that she has knowledge of the unknowable. She knows that Hap had a teacher who inspired him to follow the path that he took, and how Hap had killed him, when it is clear that Hap did not tell her this. She may have drawn her own conclusions, but because she is narrating the story to the group, she does have knowledge that she should not have.

If she is unreliable as a narrator then we cannot trust anything that she has told anyone. She may have lied to herself about seeing the video of Homer.

If she is a completely reliable narrator, then everything she said is true, they are angels, and she had knowledge of the unknowable possibly because of her repeated NDE.

So, what's my take on this? I suspect that she has some sort of powers that were tapped into as a result of the NDE and that Hap's experiments were accurate/truthful. I think that she understood the powers differently than what was probably happening, that she was able to travel between dimensions and also project her consciousness on our own physical plane. I think that the revelation that what she heard in her one NDE - the sound of the rings of saturn - was not some sort of accident or throw away line in the show. I'm not entirely sure where it's all going, but if there is a continuation of the series it certainly cant end with "sorry, everything was just made up"

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>>we know that Homer does exist because she searched him on the internet and found him.

She ordered a book on NDE and then looked at people on the internet who had experienced it. She then added it to her "story."

>>but because she is narrating the story to the group, she does have knowledge that she should not have.

Exactly. An imaginative blind girl who has regained her sight but still approaches life the same way.

>>So, what's my take on this? I suspect that she has some sort of powers that were tapped into as a result of the NDE and that Hap's experiments were accurate/truthful.

That would be counterintuitive to the heavy Occam's Razor line the narrative takes.

>>I'm not entirely sure where it's all going, but if there is a continuation of the series it certainly cant end with "sorry, everything was just made up"

Why would that be so bad? A humanist conclusion is better than supernatural claptrap. Then it's just another entertainment. I hope the writers don't go that way if there is a season two.

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Well, there's no easy way to explain how Prairie could forsee the shooter's action and take the bullet at the end. There's none humanist explanation for a mindboggling story told by this neurotic but open minded woman.

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>>Well, there's no easy way to explain how Prairie could forsee the shooter's action and take the bullet at the end.

That depends on whether you buy Freudian theory of the subconscious. Her councillor told her she needed to separate her shaggy dog story from her need to understand her premonitions and just let the latter happen. She was subconsciously picking up clues from her surroundings. Perhaps I should have said "on the side of humanism." Obviously, there are aspects such as the nose bleeds that can't be known. And that's true of medical science. They don't, for instance, entirely know how some metastasis works in some cancers.

>>There's none humanist explanation for a mindboggling story told by this neurotic but open minded woman.

I thought that was explained by the councillor quite clearly. It was a need to process what had happened to her in a positive way. If you take the revelation that she had been raped as truthful then that explains her reluctance to be touched. It also explains why Hap is depicted as disinterested in her sexually but needs her as a special flower in a hugely important experiment. Another captive is forced to have sexual intercourse though which suggests there is a truth being processed but made more palatable.

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If you take the revelation that she had been raped as truthful then that explains her reluctance to be touched.

Are we still taking that crazed fangirl's word as the Gospel? We do not know, nor does this random stranger has any way of knowing, if she was raped. There is just nothing that hints at that.

If she had "just" been secluded in a locked cell without much, or any, physical contact for 7 years, she could also certainly be reluctant to be touched.

I do not deny rape is a life-changing event but so is prolonged physical seclusion and psychological abuse.

For every lie I unlearn I learn something new - Ani Difranco

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That would be counterintuitive to the heavy Occam's Razor line the narrative takes.

You keep using that word, I do not think it means what you think it means.
Sorry, I can never resist a Princess Bride quote.

Seriously though, I don't believe the show is taking *any* clear line of narrative. They are keeping every option open because in the end, it doesn't matter. It's all about the human connection and the "folie a cinq" or shared madness, if you will, that she inspires in those people who come to believe all she says without a doubt.

Why would that be so bad? A humanist conclusion is better than supernatural claptrap.

The OP could ask you the same. Why would supernatural elements to the story be so bad? How do they take away from the human story, the self sacrifice, the frailty of the human mind, and the strength of human bonds?

For every lie I unlearn I learn something new - Ani Difranco

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To add an extra dimension to whether she is a reliable or unreliable narrator you must also include whether or not the writer forgot or got somethings wrong. You see other posts concerning plot holes concerning mistakes. Are they mistakes or are they clues.
For example: because she went blind at such an early age should she know English letters? She says she was born Russian. Is that a clue that she wasn't Russian or did the writer just overlook it. Or perhaps she doesn't know how to read English. Is that a clue that those books weren't hers? Or maybe her being an Angel grants her the power to understand all languages and writings? What is real, made up, or a mistake?

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All you have is the work. The logic presented suggests the books represent falsehood and therefore she is not Russian.

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Since her entire story basically was a sort of way to project her pain, what really makes this series interesting is to wonder how many parts of it were real, and what was fiction. She definitely experienced a lot of traumatizing stuff - I think that most of the stuff she tells her parents when she finally opens up to them actually are some of the real details, like being held captive in a basement and only being fed animal-food. She doesn't really tell them any of the more far fetched stuff. So most likely, her story to the gang was a sort of abstract variation of what she really experienced. Made up in a more magical way to make it more bearable for herself, where each of the members of the gang reflected some of the people she either met or made up. Plus she couldn't have carved the scars in her back herself - that was one part I never understood while I still believed her story. Most likely they were forced upon her by her captor(s).

And then there's the part about how she got her sight back. Since it was often established that she really was blind outside of her character. Perhaps her blindness, was a mental thing she developed from when she was a child, because she saw so much horrible stuff and the Russian bordel, where she probably was born, and was never raised by Russian oligarchs. The traumatic and painful things she experienced as a captive, then made her sight come back.

And to the people that are wondering how she got the books, I was mostly under the impression that they were just some of her parents random books, you see serval books at their house in many shots, and the randomness of the books, probably was it was something she just took from their shelves, just distract and occupy her mind rather than it was some specific titles she ordered online, but all the elements of the books then worked themselves into her projecting fantasies. Sort of like when a person in a psychosis can make everything in a book or a movie to be about them and their own world and thoughts.

Though the series still left you wonder a lot of things, especially how she really got back her sight, how she managed to escape, and what really happened to her.

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I think the fact they were in an Amazon box was the writer signalling she ordered them.

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I think the fact they were in an Amazon box was the writer signalling she ordered them.

Does it matter though? If she ordered them, that doesn't mean she didn't order them because of all the related elements in her story?

Everybody puts so much emphasis on the books as if they revealed it was a lie but they don't. They work both ways, like almost everything else in the show.

For every lie I unlearn I learn something new - Ani Difranco

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If it didn't matter then the writer wouldn't have bothered. I don't believe every revelation was meant to have two sides. But we shall see.

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And then there's the part about how she got her sight back. Since it was often established that she really was blind outside of her character.

But it wasn't. Not really.

Let's just admit as a premise that she is having delusions, since very early, including delusions of persecution, paranoia and delusions of grandeur.
How do we know she's Russian or blind?

All we have to go on is the fact her adoptive parents believe her to be blind. She could have been faking it as part of her delusion, or it could be some psychological thing.

The whole part before her adoptive parents pick her at her aunt's cannot be verified by anyone else.

The traumatic and painful things she experienced as a captive, then made her sight come back.

Or she just convinced herself she was an angel and a "miracle" occurred.

For every lie I unlearn I learn something new - Ani Difranco

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I guess it comes down to one of two things - we have a reliable narrator, or an unreliable narrator.

Since we only have her point of view, it's all relative, isn't it?

I'm undecided as to whether it's fact or fantasy, or both. I think the mystery of it shouldn't supercede the human story that's being told.

but because she is narrating the story to the group, she does have knowledge that she should not have.

Just for arguments sake, you are already accepting her as reliable here. Your premise is that she can't know things that happened to Homer or Hap. How do we even know they exist? We see the Youtube video of Homer so he does exist but how do we know she ever even met him?

If she is unreliable as a narrator then we cannot trust anything that she has told anyone.

Exactly. Anything to anyone. That includes her blindness and even her Russian origins, her father and everything that she says happened before she was adopted.

If she is a completely reliable narrator, then everything she said is true,

Why does she have to be completely reliable or not at all? There might be some things that are part of her delusions but are grounded in real events or real people.

I'm not entirely sure where it's all going, but if there is a continuation of the series it certainly cant end with "sorry, everything was just made up"

I doubt there will ever be the 100% answer that a lot of people are hoping for, one way or another.

For every lie I unlearn I learn something new - Ani Difranco

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I am inclined to think she is reliable. She just knows too much. Aside from the things you mentioned, she also knew BBA had recently lost someone close to her. She had a sort of prophecy-dream about the shooting at the school. As soon as I saw French walk into the cafeteria in that finale episode, I saw those high windows with the dark frames and the trees outside and I knew that's the place OA saw in her dream. True, she may have gone to highschool there, but she was blind back then so she wouldn't have known what the cafeteria looked like. She also seems to have some emotional control over animals. Yes, I know some animals can back down or become submissive if you bite them, but that dog sort of became obsessed with her. It wanted to leave with her. There were just too many small things like this for her to not have been telling the truth.

I am also inclined to think she is reliable because it sucks to watch a show like that and take in all that deep emotion and then be told it was all in someone's head. It takes all the emotion and meaning out of it.

I hope there is a season two, but I'm not sure how they would fill all the time.


"There is no good and evil, there is only power, and those too weak to seek it".

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+1

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