MovieChat Forums > Second Chance (2016) Discussion > Unlikeable

Unlikeable

posted 8 years ago by symphonyjade
16 replies | jump to latest

It's been well established that Jimmy was a complete tosser and made precious little effort to connect with either of his children.

I like the premise of this show, but for me, the trouble is that the lead is so thoroughly unlikeable.

Otto also has his moments where I want to shake him and say, "Pull yourself together, man, and stop hiding behind your sister's skirts!"

Duvall is primarily humorless, but then, his Dad is hardly Mr Chuckles, so his guard is well and truly up.

I like Mary as well as Duvall's sister and daughter. I do wish the writers would allow some character growth for both Otto and Jimmy, so Jimmy can be less of a git and Otto can toughen up a bit.

In other news: now that it's been confirmed that Mary merrily engages in some recreational nookie with that devious chap whose name I can't be arsed to learn, perhaps the incest pervs can settle down now.

[–] Bel_Zedar 8 years ago

Otto is, most likely, on the autustic spectrum. Cut him some slack.

[–] symphonyjade 8 years ago

Nope. No slack for Otto. Not with his intellect. He's most definitey neuro-atypical, but he is being enabled and indulged by a sister who loves him dearly and may not have the necessary tools to guide him to a more self-confident person.

He is too complex for average thinkers, BUT he is also a fictional character, so it's not outside the realm of posibility for the writers to pen a conceivably realistic avenue of progress for him.

[–] Bel_Zedar 8 years ago

Speaking as someone who has been plagued by the paranoia and spite of average thinkers, your problems with people like Otto are your problens. Of course I'm wasting my time pointing that out since the smugness and self-satisfaction of average thinkers know no bounds as long as they clutch that security blanket that is the herd's group-think. If you had an IQ of 150, you'd understand that. But you don't and, like a dim bulb, you're defined by your limitations.

Otto is a gentle, lonely soul whether you get that or not. If I think you're intellectually handicapped, you'd be the first to deny it but that doesn't make it any less - or any more - true.

[–] symphonyjade 8 years ago

Spare me the "I'm an intellectual phenom" delusion, dear. Otto is a fictional character penned by writers for entertainment value. Nothing more. Your desire to identify with him is YOUR problem.
No one is obligated to help you feel better about yourself than you deserve, so go be deluded somewhere else. You do, however, have my sympathy for your "paranoia" affliction (assuming you're telling the truth), but you missed your 'high ground' by a mile when you began to go on personal attacks. How very pedestrian and severely average of you. That's not the mark of any superior intellect by any measure.

[–] 8 years ago

[deleted]

[–] district-23105 8 years ago

Don't even bother trying to reason with people like Symphonyjade. It's clear they have no understanding of the ASD or how it actually effects people. They can clearly only see through their own limited perspective.

If Symphonyjade thinks Otto is some kind of bizarre fictional character and that he's somehow unique - LOL - that's just laughable. Go do some research.

[–] symphonyjade 8 years ago

 Are you even WATCHING the same show as everyone else? Otto is a sodding sociopath. You're not seriously suggesting taking a teenage girl hostage, experimenting on her and whoever else he feels like is representative of people with Asperger's, Autism, etc?!!!

Good grief! Exactly HOW severe was the head injury you've clearly suffered that prevents you from distinguishing between a FICTIONAL television character and real-life neuro-atypical individuals? In your feeble attempts to paint yourself as a superior intellect, you've successfully achieved the opposite. Go sit down, dear. This is an adult swim. Get back to your Dora the Explorer videos.

[–] Jedgarsstone 8 years ago

Bel_Zedar, the OP owned you several posts back, but your commitment to making a colossal fool of yourself on this thread is unrelenting. You're really making yourself look bad. Pitiful.

Life is short. Smile while you still have teeth

[–] tenderlovingtony 8 years ago

My IQ is in the same range as yours. Your hatred of people with normal IQs is an embarrassment to those of us in the high-IQ league.

[–] RoryOHanlon 8 years ago

To be fair, tenderlovingtony, Bel_Zedar likely can't boast a high IQ as he's failed to read with comprehension the OP's post. At no point did the OP disparage "people like Otto".

The OP's discussion was about the poor writing and lack of character development, not about Autism. Bel_Zedar just went on a rant based on an imagined slight against "people like Otto". Then again, he confessed to suffering from paranoia.....

The IMDB is plagued by such individuals - individuals who make unvarifiable claims of being experts in this or that, geniuses, etc,. It's par for the course on message boards.

I agree with the OP about the shoddy way the character is written and virtually all the anti-Otto threads address the way the character is presented, not the suspected Autism or people on the spectrum.

[–] ToHelenBackAgain 8 years ago

Otto is a gentle, lonely soul whether you get that or not.

Well THAT sure proved to be a spectacular misinterpretation.


"Mr. Barba, you're off to a flying stop."

[–] KieranONeill 8 years ago

Quite right, Symphonyjade. The writers have done exactly what you were referring to because in the latest episode, they actually gave him a bit of growth. Where he once only remained quiet on the anniversary of his parents' death, Jimmy's "bull in China shop" approach forced him into breaking a habit his sister had indulged for years. With it, came a breakthrough in dealing with his sense of guilt.

Too often people forget that being autistic and being a savant are mutually exlusive and just having behavioral/emotional issues does not place one in either category unless other criteria are are met. The variables are many. Anyway, I, too, would like to see more growth for Otto as he has NOT been written as Autistic(he as demonstrated an emotional perception sagacity), nor given any limitations that prevent him from interacting more easily with average people. He is by no means going to find a like-mind amongst his current cohorts, but his childhood trauma plays an integral role in his current state and overall emotional make-up.

[–] jedgarstone 8 years ago

@Symphonyjade - I just saw a thread on theCooper Barret Board talking about unlikable leads, so I'll be a bit lazy and copy my response verbatim:
"It is, indeed, difficult to root for a less than likable character. The trouble is, we can't avoid noticing how much such characters drain/use/disregard/take for granted the people around them. Subconsciously or not, we identify with the put-upon person more readily despite the stories being geared toward our having to cheer for the flawed lead."

We want to cheer for him, but he's something of a bully and bullies are typically cowards. Where the leads of old were men/women we could secretly wish to be, flawed leads don't hold the same appeal and shows like these rarely go beyond 4 seasons, if that, whereas, good guy leads of yesteryear ( MacGyver, Knight Rider, A-Team, etc) easily sailed toward the 10-year marks.

[–] RoryOHanlon 8 years ago

It's been well established that Jimmy was a complete tosser and made precious little effort to connect with either of his children.

Yes, and it's getting to be tedious how we keep getting MORE illustrations of what a terrible Dad he was. In the latest episode, we get to see him realize he had a habit of calling his children idiots. *sigh*. We get it. He was a jerk. I suppose we are to see him feel bad about it now.

Otto also has his moments where I want to shake him and say, "Pull yourself together, man, and stop hiding behind your sister's skirts!"

As another poster stated on this thread, he finally got a bit of a shake-up when Jimmy demanded he speak where he didn't before on the anniversary of his parents's death. Mary is a good sister, but enabling Otto to his detriment had to stop on some level. It seems Jimmy will be a catalyst for Otto's 'awakening' of sorts.

His foray into a healthier lifestyle may need an unconventional approach. My one major beef with the writing is that Otto has been given a plethora of quirks, but no definitive diagnosis. It's vague, but it's not autism. They really should research better before giving characters traits.

[–] ToHelenBackAgain 8 years ago

Eh... I dunno, I don't dislike Jimmy. I appreciate that he's using this second chance to try to learn to be better to people, and I find it believably done. It's difficult for him, he has to really make an effort to use his relatively small portion of empathy, but he truly wants it and so he keeps trying. At the same time, he still thinks his corrupt behavior was completely justified and is just how the world works, and, well, he may have a point there, at least to some extent. Duval could stand to be a little less uncompromising.

Which, speaking of, Duval seems to be learning this, and I'm enjoying his growth arc too.

I like Mary and Helen a lot... Alexa too, despite her divided loyalties. I think the only characters I really dislike are Otto and Connor.

"Yeah, it's all fun and games until somebody loses a penis."

[–] MisterFranks 8 years ago

I can cut Otto a little slack, as he seems to be growing at least one ball.

Pritchard on the other hand, continues to be a total dick. He just came back from the dead, he is responsible for developing a cancer treatment that could help many people, and yet he continues to be a drunken bum, a slob, and a whore-monger.

If I were the twins, I would have just jacked him up on morphine, and kept him in a cooler for use as a bloood-bag.