Episode 5 Paris


OK, so when Mae checks out the autopsy reports (written in French) on two victims named as Samantha Wade and Bianca Lewis ... she reads them out loud, translating from the French as she goes along; she reads the details of their different deaths, one with mutilation of the eyes, the other with decapitation. Except, if you pause the frames you can can see that both autopsy reports are absolutely identical. Same date, same file number, exactly the same age and date of birth for each victim (38 years old, although neither of them appeared to be that age), and to make it worse the entire description of each of the bodies was exactly the same. Every single paragraph was identical. It was only the victims' names that were different. Not only that, I can both read and understand French; and I can assure you that Mae's translation of the details of death bore no relation whatsoever to what was written on any of the pages she was supposedly reading from.

Finally, we had a French Police Chief talking about the "route" which one of the victims might have taken before she met her death. Route is a French word, it originated in the French language before it came into English useage, and in English it is pronounced exactly the same way as in the French, ie, rhymes with "root". As in "root". Only in America is it ever pronounced "rout" ie rhymes with "rout" or "about". But this French cop pronounced it "rout" (rhymes with "about") not "root". Never ever ever would that have happened.

Very slack, very poor attention to detail. And in my opinion, as a Brit, entirely typical of the American view of the world that it's all about America and nobody else really matters.

And this is what's basically wrong with this show. It has the FBI trampling and rampaging across the world, imposing and forcing their imagined "superior" crime detection techniques on intially reluctant local police forces and eventually emerging smug and self-satisfied having solved the crimes and caught the baddies, with the local cops eternally ("aw-shucks!") grateful and forever in their debt for having done what they themselves could not possibly have achieved. Because outside of America we're all backwoods hicks.

It's American imperialism at its worst.

Notwithstanding, it's a quite entertaining show, and all of us non-Americans can have a real hoot watching you Yanks thinking that you run and control the world on our behalf!

NOT!!

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...so when Mae checks out the autopsy reports (written in French)...

Sounds like some good entries for the "Goofs" section of the episode.

And this is what's basically wrong with this show. It has the FBI trampling and rampaging across the world, imposing and forcing their imagined "superior" crime detection techniques on initially reluctant local police forces and eventually emerging smug and self-satisfied having solved the crimes and caught the baddies, with the local cops eternally ("aw-shucks!") grateful and forever in their debt for having done what they themselves could not possibly have achieved. Because outside of America we're all backwoods hicks.

Agreed, however:

It's American imperialism at its worst.

It's actually a TV show depicting arrogance. Imperialism must be (and has been) undertaken by politicians, not TV writers. For some reason, assigning an undue amount of realism to this unrealistic show (such as "Cross another country off my list" linked below) is taking place on this message board.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt4364202/board/nest/255175855

Ignoring politics doesn't mean politics will ignore you.
-Pericles paraphrased in <100 characters

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If you can find a "Goofs" section, please feel free to copy and paste the relevant parts of my post. I've looked and can't find one.

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If you can find a "Goofs" section, please feel free to copy and paste the relevant parts of my post. I've looked and can't find one.

Unless there is one already posted, you won't see it. You have to go to "Edit Page" and then go from there- Goofs are listed under "Fun Stuff".

I'll post the info for you.

Edit: Posted as a "Revealing Mistake":
When Mae checks out the autopsy reports (written in French) on two victims named as Samantha Wade and Bianca Lewis ... she reads them out loud, translating from the French as she goes along; she reads the details of their different deaths, one with mutilation of the eyes, the other with decapitation. Both autopsy reports were absolutely identical. Same date, same file number, exactly the same age and date of birth for each victim (38 years old, although neither of them appeared to be that age), and the entire description of each of the bodies was exactly the same. Every single paragraph was identical. It was only the victim's names that were different. Mae's translation of the details of death written in French bore no relation whatsoever to what was written on any of the pages she was supposedly reading from.


Ignoring politics doesn't mean politics will ignore you.
-Pericles paraphrased in <100 characters

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Many thanks for that!

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^^^yeah...

it's arrogance, or 'American chauvinism" as I called it (I borrowed the term from elsewhere something a long time back)

it is not fking 'xenophobia" or "imperialism" some people have stuck on their brains these days.

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The original show was pretty contemptuous of local law enforcement officers. When generously portrayed, they were shown as well-meaning but clueless. When less than generously portrayed, they were shown as lazy, ignorant, and racist, sexist, or homophobic.

This one simply takes that same contempt and applies it in an international arena.

And the original show's attention to detail was hysterically lax. Why should this one's be any different.

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Very slack, very poor attention to detail. And in my opinion, as a Brit, entirely typical of the American view of the world that it's all about America and nobody else really matters.

And this is what's basically wrong with this show. It has the FBI trampling and rampaging across the world, imposing and forcing their imagined "superior" crime detection techniques on initially reluctant local police forces and eventually emerging smug and self-satisfied having solved the crimes and caught the baddies, with the local cops eternally ("aw-shucks!") grateful and forever in their debt for having done what they themselves could not possibly have achieved. Because outside of America we're all backwoods hicks.

It's American imperialism at its worst.

Hmm, wasn't it once said that the sun never sets on the British Empire? Didn't Britain sort of set the standard for imperialism? Or was that the Roman Empire?

I think it is in the nature of human beings to go trampling and rampaging across the world, imposing and forcing their imagined "superior" culture and religion on others. The USA isn't the first country to do it, and won't be the last.

Not that it makes imperialism okay. Why can't we all just coexist?



"You're so analytical! Sometimes you just have to let art... flow... over you." The Big Chill

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Excuse me, but do you mind telling me which British TV series is showing the same imperialism like CMBB? I am just curious about it.

Because CMBB is the first TV series I have ever watched which shows human beings trampling and rampaging across the world, imposing and forcing their imagined "superior" culture and religion on others so DIRECTLY. Besides, before this “fantastic” show, the only plot on nationalism which could be released on TV normally happened on your own land, which means, show superior of being an American on the land of USA and show superior of being a Brit on the land of UK, not on the foreign land.

Oops, I forget, Americans didn’t evacuate from Iraq until 5 years ago while the British Empire has ended for a long time. So if you mean that the only reason for the naughty son to behave so annoying is simply because it learnt this “superior” from its elder, then do you mind telling me what did the elder do? I really want to watch the British version of showing off around the world and see which would be worse.

I guess it might be quite similar except the accent.

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Excuse me, but do you mind telling me which British TV series is showing the same imperialism like CMBB? I am just curious about it.

Because CMBB is the first TV series I have ever watched which shows human beings trampling and rampaging across the world, imposing and forcing their imagined "superior" culture and religion on others so DIRECTLY... I really want to watch the British version of showing off around the world and see which would be worse.

Since I do not have access to British TV, I have no idea what series may or may not compare to this one.

However, there is no lack of movies that deal with British Imperialism, and countless other countries that have invaded and conquered others. My comments have to do with actual history, not just a television show. Europeans invaded this area of North America and decimated the already existing native populations and their unique cultures. Just ask any Native American who wears the t-shirt showing several Native Americans on horseback with the text "Native Americans - supporting Homeland Security since 1492".

I am not anti-British - two of my good friends live across the pond. I am simply stating that I disagree with the observation that this show denigrates other cultures in favor of American culture and knowledge.



"You're so analytical! Sometimes you just have to let art... flow... over you." The Big Chill

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I am simply stating that I disagree with the observation that this show denigrates other cultures in favor of American culture and knowledge.

I'm somewhat hesitant to jump into another's debate, however one point I mentioned in the pilot was how the CSI dude ignored the cultural sensitivity of the Thai police by using women to give the "unsub" profile. He was fully aware of how the Thais felt about women in police service, yet he insisted on using the two American women on his team to do this instead of the male liaison officer that had been assigned to them.

Just ask any Native American who wears the t-shirt showing several Native Americans on horseback with the text "Native Americans - supporting Homeland Security since 1492".

I'll start another debate here by noting it's 2016. Anyone born here is a native American. While we must learn from history, we can either continue to live in the past via hyphenations or move forward as simply Americans. I really like Dr. King's statement of judging by the content of character, not the color of skin, and try to apply it myself when dealing with others.


Ignoring politics doesn't mean politics will ignore you.
-Pericles paraphrased in <100 characters

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I really like Dr. King's statement of judging by the content of character, not the color of skin, and try to apply it myself when dealing with others.

Same here, Dark Avenger. There is another quote by King about not responding with violence for violence, and breaking the chain of hate. There is no debate started; I was simply trying to point out to the OP that injustices have occurred throughout history, but this particular OP seems very extreme in his/her dislike of this TV series and of Americans. In another thread that he/she started, "Esposde5. She deserve the death.", you can see in that post how this person interprets everything in the episode as arrogance and superiority on the part of the American victim.

Yes, in the Thailand episode, I see your point. I would like to know why they wrote it that way. But, in the grand scheme of things, is this show as negative an influence as it is being represented on this board?


"You're so analytical! Sometimes you just have to let art... flow... over you." The Big Chill

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Thanks for the kind reply.

But, in the grand scheme of things, is this show as negative an influence as it is being represented on this board?

I really don't see how it could be, however apparently some members here plan their travel based upon what takes place on a fictional TV show or assign greater weight than IMO it or any other fictional show deserves. I see it as pretty farcical and have had some fun with it in in my posts here. I even titled one of them "We are stupid Americans".  Speaking of which:

National pride IMO is akin to family pride/human nature. For example, someone may say something negative about my sister or brother that is true and we'll both be upset. However, I can say the same thing and it is OK since we are family. For this reason, we'll see American TV shows extolling how great Americans are and it's likely the same for shows in other nations. We as a nation are a nation divided on many issues, however if a foreigner attacks us be it verbally or notably physically we tend to put those differences aside.

Ignoring politics doesn't mean politics will ignore you.
-Pericles paraphrased in <100 characters

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I really don't see how it could be, however apparently some members here plan their travel based upon what takes place on a fictional TV show or assign greater weight than IMO it or any other fictional show deserves.

Thanks for the feedback; so I am not the only one who thinks there is some over-reacting going on here.

It is interesting, how 'crossing borders' politicizes something that is just a crime drama about behavioral analysis. On the original CM, the BAU regularly educates local law enforcement about this approach to finding the criminal, but once it goes overseas, it is perceived as an arrogant imposition by some viewers.



"You're so analytical! Sometimes you just have to let art... flow... over you." The Big Chill

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It is interesting, how 'crossing borders' politicizes something that is just a crime drama about behavioral analysis. On the original CM, the BAU regularly educates local law enforcement about this approach to finding the criminal, but once it goes overseas, it is perceived as an arrogant imposition by some viewers.


There is an angle you are failing to see here. The BAU is part of the FBI. The FBI is a federal law enforcement agency in the United States, and as such it is above county and state law enforcement in the chain of command, so they can practically sweep in and take over an investigation if they want to. Even then, the BAU of CM only very rarely takes a case on their volition, and most of the time they are called in to intervene by the lower-ranked law enforcement. When said LE has tried and failed to crack a case, the BAU is called in, so to speak, as a last recourse.

The problem with CM:BB is that most of the time, this situation doesn't apply. Instead, it's the American embassy or worst, the victim's own family who calls the FBI because they think their case is not being properly investigated and the FBI says, "sure, we are sending in the IRT". Then the IRT arrives, shoves itself into the investigation of the foreign law enforcement it has absolutely no rank or authority over, and the other LE mostly shut up and shallow it for some reason, being reduced to sidekicks while the IRT makes normal, average police work. So basically, local LE has not even been given the chance to properly investigate, but who cares, this is the implication, we can and will do better than them anyway because we are American so *beep* them.

The show would have not gathered as much criticism if it actually had tried to be more like original recipe CM. Instead of making the IRT an agency that jumps at the first news of one little baby American being murdered (or even more ridiculous, missing... for a grand total of 2 days... like in the show's premiere), the IRT's help could be requested by foreign LE in trully complicated cases they have tried to crack and could not, American victims not being even needed. There is still potential for criticism and some people would protest it as American chauvinism anyway, I'm sure, but it wouldn't be nearly as preposterous as most premises this first season were (with few exceptions). Of course, this would force the show to drop its extremely limited formula of "American kidnapped, IRT arrives, kills baddie, takes American home" and make it more of a procedural. How would the FBI investigate the Setagaya family murders in Japan or the Monster of Florence, for instance? That sort of thing.

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I got your point here. However, for this show particular, I still believe that the values showed in a TV series today worth much than the actual history because the history means the past and the show means today.

I cannot deny that there was a brutal history during the development of British Empire. It was full of violence and blood. The invasion of North America must be a nightmare to the locals, not even mention the carnages. But the point here is since the British Empire has ended for a long time, the marginal effect of the invasion is decreasing. You could still blame the Brits for what they did to the Native Americans, but generally speaking, it is no longer a Queen’s land. North America has been independent for 240 years.

Now back to CMBB, what does this show tell the audience? I have no idea what Americans may think because I am not American, so as an individual foreigner, basically I believe that CMBB is trying to tell me like, “As an American, I speak and only speak English, so when I travel around, it is not my job to communicate with you but your job to communicate with me. If you don’t speak English and make me feel inconvenience because of that, it’s all your fault. “OR “we Americans could and feel proud that we could use drug to get laid and you cannot complain about that because we’re Americans. I don’t care whether use drug to get laid is legal or not, but as long as anything happened because of my behavior, it’s all your fault” etc.

Oops, fantastic. I’m an American, I don’t care about locals and I could do anything I want beyond borders. You know why? Because we have US government! See that team? See that FBI? See these badges and guns? Are you scared? Are you afraid? Are you local police feel shame? How dare you local police fail to protect we noble Americans? And how dare you let our noble FBI fly 20 hours to take the rescue? And see, the limited intelligence of you local police is just useless, because for every complex case which you couldn’t solve, we noble FBI could solve it immediately! And we don’t even have the whole team there! Back in Quantico, we have a genius as our back up! And you just lower the IQ of the whole police industry.

That’s it. That’s CMBB. And it’s only related to the victim part. The hidden words behind the team’ behavior are just much worse. Ignore the borders, ignore the regulations, and ignore the stupid “fact” that every foreign cop could speak English. Every country in the world welcomes we FBI and we FBI could shoot and kill every foreign unsub we met. Nobody would complain about that because we’re FBI and our job deserves a great appreciation by both the Americans in foreign land and the foreign government. The foreign government would just thank us instead of complain that we kill their citizens on their land.

Does that a bit look like the invasion of North America by the British Empire? They, both the victims and the FBI, just walk on some foreign land and do anything they want without ask the permission. Oh, I forgot, they asked, literally, on the condition that NO is not an alternative answer. Then what’s the point of asking? Before the Native Americans realized that they didn’t like the Brits, Brits had already started the slaughter and then there was no NO answer anymore, and that’s the exact same message which the show is delivering.

Yes I knew, it was just a show. We expected too much from a fictional drama and focused on those details which actually doesn’t matter, like the wrong French translation. But I could tell you that as a foreigner, the anger I felt when I watched the show does matter. I felt no sympathy to the victims because if you dare behave like that in front of my front door, you just deserve the death. You earned that and I just made your wish happen.

It is even not Beyond Borders because borders means respect and there is no respect showed in this series. That probably because from a view of an American, there is no such concept called “Borders”. And for an American version of “Borders”, generally we call it “invasion”. You don’t care what I care, and you don’ think I should care either, with the condition that it all happened in my house, in front of my face.

That’s the reason why I believe that a current TV series is much more important than the actual history. Because a criminal drama with a times series of today is a story happened at this moment, and reflects the value about today. Today, you may disagree the opinion that CMBB is denigrating other culture in favor of American knowledge, but my feeling is just telling the opposite way. I believe that this series is actually about American’s ambition of the invasion of the world. It’s an imaginary invasion tested under a fictional scenario. In this scenario, Americans have imaginary enemy (local unsub), imaginary alliance (local government) and imaginary strategy to achieve their target. It’s like a vertical attack, by sending the force (FBI) directly to a fixed coordinate (different country) immediately with a lethal weapon and an excuse (American down) to finish their job (welcomed by the world).

I have no problem with Americans, because even this show tries to tell me that the American who live to my next door probably taunt me inside every time when he smiled to me just because I don’t speak English, I won’t actually kill him next morning when I see him. It’s the values behind the screen delivered by CBS matters. Today you try to tell me “Never mind, it’s just a show”, tomorrow you might tell me “Relax, we’re here to rescue. We won’t bother you locals”, and what about the day after tomorrow? Native Americans would not know that the new landers were actually trying to kill them, took their livestock, raped their daughters and made them slavery in advance. But they did little by little every day and tested the respond of Native Americans until one day, made the place their colony.

CMBB did the same way, but the problem is, as a Native of a foreign land, I don’t want to be next Native American.

PS: I, individually, could understand the ego of being a citizen of you mother country. It’s normal and even if you showed that value in your TV series which about the story happened on your own land, it’s acceptable. There are a lot TV series, especially criminal drama, would show the superior of Americans. Full of foreigners or foreign-oriented criminals in the screen might give the screenwriters more options to make up the story. But that’s happened on your land, like CM, which makes the fictional story like an American business.

CMBB, on the other hand, behave differently. It’s happened on foreign land, which makes the fictional story become partially political. And whenever it came to the politics, you should be correct at least on a public platform, which refers to the camera. Just like the famous American Donald Trump. Even this guy always behave political incorrectly in front of the camera, I really doubt he would actually do as he promised after his election. But CMBB just did it, before Trump.

On another side, I also believe that besides these stupid storylines, almost every part of this show is nonsense. The characters are poorly written. What’s the point of having a language master in the team when every foreign cop could speak English? What’s the point of having a hot Asian with a military background in the team but don’t let him to do the Morgan-kick? What’s the point of having a medical examiner in the team when she just simply took the photos of the dead bodies? What’s the point of having a funny IT guy in the team when he was only useful at the beginning of the episode and filtered with the examiner? And most importantly, what’s the point of having such a leading male character? Hotch of CM has limited facial expression too but he was quite actively at the first episode. After one episode, you could know that he had a family, a lovely wife, a first-born, and respected his fellow colleague Gideon. He was a vivid character which looked like a real person. Here, Garret seems did everyone’s job while none of them seems to be his specialization. With his limited facial expression, he looked like a typical American solider in Iraq or Afghanistan, making the show even more like a drill of a new war. These made the series worse because if you have a group of good characters but a terrible storyline, we might endure it a little bit longer. But the questions is, with an annoying line and a terrible establishment of characters, what was left?

Comparing to Crossing Lines, CBS seems try to turn the whole world as his own version of Europe. I have no idea what CBS is planning about this series, but here is one thing for sure. You Americans probably right, we locals just dislike Americans.😃

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I won't be an apologist for Britain's colonial past, although it was partly due to that history that the USA came into being. I'm just discussing a TV show, is all.

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Give me a break, "American Imperialism"?
It's just a mediocre TV show. And the FBI does do something like this, they do go to foreign countries, hunt for criminals, and arrest people, presumably with the permission of the country's government they are in.
Whether there's really an FBI unit with their own plane that tries to rescue kidnapped Americans in foreign countries, I doubt it, sounds like a fantasy.
A fantasy in the way world class super spy James Bond travels the world for England, better than everyone he meets, killing people for England.
But I imagine when your country does it , it's okay.
And as for real imperialism, you're the country of colonies and empire, not the USA, and thanks for the two wars we had to fight not to be ruled by an English king.

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The moment Mae, or whatever her name is, got ready to translate from French, I put my finger on the space bar, ready to pause and make sure whatever she was saying was accurate. Not even remotely. It was quite annoying that no one had bothered to put in the effort, considering how popular of a language French actually is, compared to other languages on the show. However, still better than one of the Borne movies, where Matt Damon supposedly had a Russian passport and they were supposedly in Russia, but everything that was supposedly in Russian was actually complete gibberish, like a cat walking on a Cyrillic keyboard =_='

Also, another thing about this Mae person, her supposed medical knowledge is pissing me off. The port from the last episode is so not used for whatever she said it was used for. Administration of injectable drugs could be accomplished through any port on an IV line. Actually, such a port would be quite useless for this purpose. What it is used for is when you want to push a certain amount of fluids in a place (like a vessel or organ) and then you want to pull back and see how much you will be able to get back, or drain the thing, without disconnecting your syringe - that is what you use, because you can redirect the flow. It's not a "pressure valve", but rather a "direction of flow valve".

Anyway. She is entirely annoying and is pissing me off, and the entire show is pissing me off and I think I am done. The should just cut the funding of this money pit now and send it to Shamar Moore so that he can come back. At least he was awesome, very easy on the eyes and knew how to do his damn job.

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She also prayed that her high school French would come back to her...I highly doubt she learned the word for "hyoid bone" in high school French yet that's what she translated it to.

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[deleted]

My problem with the show, above all else, is the way the world's police forces are portrayed. It's what annoys me about many police procedurals, where somehow only the hero(s) notices the exceptionally obvious clues and discrepancies that appear at the murder scene, the autopsy, and so forth.

With Criminal Minds, they avoided this for the most part. For instance, the team doesn't suddenly go to an autopsy and find clues on the body the ME somehow missed. Instead, they talk about what the ME found in relation to the crime and what it shows about the mindset of the criminal in question. They help to interpret the results.

They assist the local police not because the local police are stupid or reckless, but because the local police realize that they need assistance. The team has the experience and resources that most local police departments in the US simply lack, such as experience with serial killers who operate outside of normal motives for murder like money, jealous anger, or drugs.

With Beyond Borders, all the locals are dips who need American know how to notice basic clues. (I will grant that with some police forces this may not be all that far fetched.) Take the Japanese episode as an example. One guy from the team shows up at the crime scene in the dark forest at night, looks around for three minutes, and magically finds the camera 20 feet from the body that the whole Japanese crime scene crew missed. Or how about a quick glance autopsy, whereby Funke's character notices key evidence on the surface of the body that the local ME "obviously" wouldn't notice. Also, let's not forget how mathematically incompetent the Japanese are, because they sure as heck can't realize the statistical anomaly of three American suicides in the Tokyo area in a short time frame when the average is 5 per year in the whole of Japan. They would have to be complete dunces not to realize something was a little off, especially by the time they're processing the third "suicide."

I get that not all police forces are going to be super efficient or effective, but the show should have taken a different route in portraying these international police forces.

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An excellent, incisive overview. Well said. Thank you.

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The Japan ep was especially hilarious when everybody understand english, the delivered the unsub profile in english and the unsub also somehow a hikikomori a hermit has excellent english language proficiency.

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