MovieChat Forums > Gangland Undercover (2015) Discussion > Things I have learned from Gangland" Und...

Things I have learned from Gangland" Undercover


1. You can admit that you have changed Names, Locations and Key Elements and still claim a TV show is the true story.
2. Motorcycle gangs routinely make prospects out of people who don't even own motorcycles,.
3. Cages only refer to the cars that follow the gang on a run not all cars.
4. Gang members wear their colors while riding in cars instead of placing them in the trunk of the car as Billy Queen stated in his book Under and Alone
5. Even though the Vagos are one of the most violent gangs and full of short fused dangerous men whose bar you don't want to go into, when three members of another biker gang show up in their bar it is up to the newly arrived hang around to jump in and save another member from being choked.
5.B Again when three random slobs show up when they are having a party it is up to the Prospect to protect the President not the Sergeant of Arms
6. When you show up at a biker bar a random biker girl will fill you in on who everyone in the bar is, and her boyfriend will not get jealous of her talking to you.
7. Girls that hang out with biker gangs are there to hook up with some random guy instead of gang members.
8. Charles Falco was really impressed when he watched an agent drive a Harley across a parking lot.
9. You can hit a motorcycle gang member and not worry about the gang taking revenge.
10. A Police officer has to explain bump starting to an adult with a drivers license.
11.When the guy who the gang is allowing to prospect without a motorcycle shows up with an 11 year old stock motorcycle the gang will be as impressed as though it was a brand new motorcycle, and either a top of the line bike or a custom. Remember these are guys who have been around motorcycles for probably decades and have all owned motorcycles.
12. When you have a tail light out the oldest member of a motorcycle gang will not only fix it for you he will rebuild your entire bike into a better bike, the bike that everyone just seemed so jealous of really needed that much improvement?
13. A meth cook who was bringing in 100,000 dollars a month and using his own supply will act all high and mighty about seeing a girl passed out in the bathroom. Did this guy never go to a college party?
14. When a new guy shows up at a drug deal he will be the one who you hand the money too not the guy who you have been dealing with for years.
15. There will always be one biker who doesn't trust the new guy, just like in Stone Cold it will be the one who looks like William Forsythe, and the gang will never listen to that guy.
16. Someone infiltrating an outlaw motorcycle gang is allowed to feel a sense of accomplishment for becoming a full patch member, but the random members of the gang, we are supposed to look down on them for feeling the same feeling.
17. A guy who says he wants to make amends for his crimes will still think the time he robbed an elderly couple in Las Vegas is a source of amusement because it was a fake gun. Wonder if when he has a gun in his face he ever remembers the time he did the same to this couple, who didn't know it was a fake gun, and feels sorry for it, not according to this show where he laughs about it.
18. Riding a motorcycle feels like going several rounds with a heavyweight.

reply

You can admit that you have changed Names, Locations and Key Elements and still claim a TV show is the true story.


Pretty much all shows/movies like this never claim to be "the true story", they make a point of calling it "Based on true events" or "Based on a true story" and that's exactly what Gangland Undercover is doing: "Based on a true story".

Reality often ain't that entertaining, so they have to change certain things to make it fit the format.

reply

It's just a TV drama, a fictionalized portrayal of actual events.

This is for entertainment sake, you're just not entertained lol. This show might not be your type of thing. Why continue?

BTW #2 happens more than you'd know, its not that unbelievable.

reply

Just read the book .

reply

What's the name of the book that people are talking about reading that person's to this show? Was just wondering because I wanted to get it and read it.

reply

1. You can admit that you have changed Names, Locations and Key Elements and still claim a TV show is the true story.

No, it claims to be "Based on" real events. And changing Names, Locations and Key Elements is exactly why "Based on" is used instead of directly saying it's a true story. When a show uses "Based on", it means details have been fictionalized/dramatized.

13. A meth cook who was bringing in 100,000 dollars a month and using his own supply will act all high and mighty about seeing a girl passed out in the bathroom. Did this guy never go to a college party?

Not sure how asking if she was okay is acting as high and mighty. Also as the guy was a Meth cook and distributor not the street dealer watching people OD in front of him.

And I hope to god that even a frat boy has enough empathy not to step over someone passed out on the floor and decency to ask if they're okay.


I don't trust people who don't like pets and I don't trust people who pets don't like.

reply

From the History Channel's own description

his story is brought to life in this fact-based docudrama series that sees Falco work as an informant for the Feds

Shouldn't a docudrama be more true than a typical based on a true story? Doesn't the docu in docudrama stand for documentary?


Not sure how asking if she was okay is acting as high and mighty. Also as the guy was a Meth cook and distributor not the street dealer watching people OD in front of him.


As that scene started he did a voice over that said something like 'the worst part was seeing certain crimes and not being able to stop them'

There was no indication that she had ODed that I could see, it appeared to me that she was drunk, and yes people get drunk and pass out all the time, he was acting like a drunk girl was the worst thing ever. The show might have been trying to imply that the evil biker was going to rape her but from the way the show was filmed it could also be that the biker thought he was protecting her from Falco.


And a meth cook and distributor is better than a street dealer?



reply

Shouldn't a docudrama be more true than a typical based on a true story? Doesn't the docu in docudrama stand for documentary?

According to The Museum of Broadcast Communications "docudrama" describes the manner in which the production is shot and that the events depicted are based in fact (ie non-fictional). Complete adherance to said facts is not required.


And a meth cook and distributor is better than a street dealer?

I wrote a distributor/cook wouldn't generally witness an OD/people passing out frequently/whatever description works for you the way a street dealer would. What in those words connote that that one is better than the other?

he was acting like a drunk girl was the worst thing ever.

I don't recall him using the word "crimes". I recall him saying one of the worst parts was seeing things he could do nothing about. Not that an unconscious skank was the worst thing ever.

Yeah, people get drunk and pass out. Those with empathy and a conscience try to gauge if they're dead and/or might need more help than to sleep it off. Confirm that they're not going to choke on their own vomit.

I don't trust people who don't like pets and I don't trust people who pets don't like.

reply

Okay we both admit this isn't a true story, let us stop beating that dead horse.

My point about the girl is that this is a guy who used to cook and deal meth, and he made/cleared not sure of his words, 100,000 a month. That is a lot of meth, he was responsible for much human suffering from that, from people ODing to people stealing or prostituting themselves for his drugs etc etc.

Maybe he was just blind to what he was before this started, but he so far at least hasn't admitted that he was once a person who did horrible things, don't forget he robbed an elderly couple in Las Vegas but I guess that is not a big deal because he used a fake gun, of course the couple he robbed didn't know that.


I guess he could agree with Joseph Stalin 'one death is a tragedy, a million a statistic'

reply

I wasn't suggesting that the guy didn't do horrible things. Perhaps he's even an horrible, evil person. (I haven't taken the time to think much about it one way or another.)

My suggestion is there are people who create a great deal of human suffering from a distance. A head of government, a mafia boss, CEO of an insurance company, a meth cook/distributor. People who can cause/order the deaths of hundreds without stepping out of their air conditioned offices. They don't see that suffering up close and personal.

And for some of them seeing such suffering up close - a person beaten darn near to death, or a girl passed out on the floor - can have an effect. Enough to change his behavior? Who knows. But enough for him to take note of it.

So the fact that this horrible human being felt frustration at not being able to do anything about a passed out girl didn't seem out of character because he himself had done horrible things.

I guess he could agree with Joseph Stalin 'one death is a tragedy, a million a statistic'

Yes, and a great many feel that way.

I don't trust people who don't like pets and I don't trust people who pets don't like.

reply

Correct...bikers NEVER wear their cut in a car (cage). The cut is the symbol which they hold in such high regard they will die or try dying not to lose it.
Brothers never have club business in front of their girlfriends or wives (old ladies), it's always at church and always full patch only.
Falco looks like mcgyver, and wouldn't get past the front door of any big outlaw club unless he flashed a badge which he looks like way to much.
Crimes with cut on? Nope
Prospecting a club no bike? Nope
Flimsy story can't back up? Nope
Looks like he takes 3 showers a day? Nope.
Made Sgt st arms within months? Nope
Sponsor dies and he is now core? Nope
Gets his full patch and can ride hard deuce? Nope
Never rode a bike now he can within months? NOW
SWISS CHEESE story...John Q would love it, real bikers laugh at it. Need better advisors

reply

So this Falco infiltration story is mostly false or is its representation through this show that skewed? Maybe someone who has read the book can clear up.

It sounds like you know with 100% certainty how each chapter of the biker gang would operate, without deviation or variance as a collective group or individually, across the country.

reply

Solaris
Your right 100%. I don't knkw each clubs byrules...club business for each club. What I do know is the story may be true I don't know what went down with green back in 2000's, but I do know there are some basic rules and protocol EVERY outlaw 1% club follows...and what I said previously is basic A B C.
Now having prefaced all that let me just say I don't speak from book smarts or reading about the life as we call it...catch my drift?
And whether or not you know it's called a "club" and hope you don't use gang when speaking in front of some patcholders at a bar or public place. You will get a hard lesson if your lucky.
Sometimes in life read between the lines and get the difference between someone who talks it...and has walked it.
I don't talk much...clear?

reply

Lol, I got it before you even mentioned it and started patronizing. Now you've forced me to elaborate. My main point was simply in questioning the accuracy of what's shown in comparison to his book and exactly how much leeway the show took. Because its still the History Channel, even if they have gone down the entertainment > historical fact/ documentary road.

I could've worded my 2nd paragraph better but it ties into my previous paragraph because what's shown is a club that is becoming unhinged from the top down: they let someone like Falco in, and failed to see the warning signs or carry out safeguards like you stated, have idiots like Stash running around with the Sgt. of Arms, yet all of it apparently happened in real life so there's your variation and how that specific club broke those basic rules and protocols. Again, going strictly by the show, because I haven't read the book but the general gist of it happened irrelevant of the details and that's what this show is portraying in an entertaining manner.

There's bound to be regional variation within groups themselves, especially if they're spread across such a big country. And most of the responsibility and club behavior profiles comes down to the chapter president and how strictly he enforces the rules, doesn't let loudmouth idiots like Stash run around unleashed, or get hammered and get into unnecessary barfights to set examples for his subordinates. Schizo's behavior and judgement is shown to be questionable, even from the top, so of course he's going to more inclined to appoint and choose like minded members in positions of power and as members and why an undercover like Falco was able to infiltrate them in the first place. For that to happen in real life, there must have been holes in this regional organization the likes of which you did not witness. You can't account for all that and individual personality type interactions in various situations by impressing your experience that generally.

Your sense of loyalty and brotherhood stemming from your past might not want to address what happened because it makes you uncomfortable, defensive or paints that in a somewhat negative light through its media representation but that's what they do to make it entertaining and relatable to the general public: playing to the stereotypes. It comes with the territory and this bastardization happens to all niche group portrayals including minorities. More reasons for skewing/ withholding certain aspects on purpose would be for scene continuity/ flow, to deter imitation, protect lives, and safeguard infiltration methods and intelligence.

I noticed the points you said in your earlier post too, in terms of believability and club operation, especially as a lot of it falls under common sense. Example: Episode 5 when Falco goes to meet with the agent and the detective at the diner in full patch clothing in broad daylight. And doesn't notice the huge black pickup of his girlfriend's that he is damn familiar with, following him all the way there. They could've picked a better actor as the lead, that's for sure, and the whole vibe of the show is of a B level soap opera at times.

Finally, a gang is defined as:
3.a group of people with compatible tastes or mutual interests who gather together for social reasons:
4.a group of persons working together; squad; shift:
5.a group of persons associated for some criminal or other antisocial purpose:

The show intro, the book title, wikipedia and online descriptions, government and even AMA labels them as gangs, more specifically: OMG (Outlaw Motorcycle Gang). A "club" wouldn't teach me "a hard lesson if your lucky" because what you stated is a contradiction if they have to resort to violence. Especially if they're trying to break away from their historically correct definition #5, which considering themselves a club presently implies. Maybe if you think in terms of relative differentiation in comparison to more serious gangs like those dominating prisons or by degree of violence to how the biker/ rider lifestyle is more relaxed; that could slide. Just to give you another perspective, Tupac considered the police depts, FBI, CIA etc. all gangs. Conventional clubs like country clubs, golf/ local sport clubs, book clubs, bridge/ bingo/ senior citizen clubs, chess/ school clubs don't go around enforcing themselves through violence or taking part in criminal activities on the side. And in another definition, anybody who needs more than 2 people to jump 1 person is effectively "ganging" up on said person, like you yourself implied with your "hard lesson if your lucky" statement.

reply

Solaris
Your question is about deviation from fact into fiction regarding falco book and dramatization on History channel? Well I haven't read the book...read Billy queens book, Jay Dobyns book on getting railroaded by ATF.
I will say the show is harder to do even with advisors onset because it's just 50 minutes to tell a story that takes months.
But...it's pure bovine scatology fiction. You mention infiltration and that happens in every organization, so? Yes these guys are sloppy but come on...it's a TV drama.
There is no truth to history...only the words which are retold as truth.
Your point about me personally is incorrect, I don't hold any rebel notions like a young Marlon
brando on his bike reliving glory days...I just call out bs when it's in my face.
As for "gang" you are playing semantics and I'm just saving you dental bills if you happen to frequent biker bars or run your mouth as much as on this thread (haha), but it is disrespectful to publicly address a patch holder as such and by hard lesson I meant having someone embarrass you or worse "call you out".
By "lucky" you will not end up getting physically educated for the insult.
Also understand that when some men drink, liquid courage wants to prove he can take a biker on and it's a scene repeated over and over. Unless he is buzzed slightly he will end up in the hospital because it's a different world with different rules and when thresholds are crossed after warnings, it's not a game.
I watched this episode tonight and laughed at the "prison" episode. First everyone knows any time over 1 year is served in a Prison...anytime served under 1 year or cases still open are served in County Jail.Nope sorry fail.
Going inside with a cut makes you a bona-fide respected inmate. People will not mess with you and trustees make sure everyone knows who you run with.
beefs are squashed inside, "woods" are peckerwoods white , blacks and brown(mexican or hispanic) and
that's it. And "rock spiders" or pedos have accidents and don't make it on mainline inside...but then again nature has a way of disposing of waste.
The stereotypes will always be there as with everything people don't get; but one thing about a true blue biker is this. His word is his bond...and his bond is his life. A brother will be there when chips are down (some guys have regular lives and jobs just as you do), don't break any big laws (speeding maybe ) and if you ever break down guess who will pull over and help if you look lost? Yup a biker...

reply

Could you please define or elaborate on what a "true biker" is?

reply

Movie bandit...sure but this is subjective. A true blue biker..rides his bike to Sturgis (doesn't trailer queen it) , he knows his bike and how to repair it if he breaks down on some isolated road. If challenged by a threat he doesn't ever back down and follows a code long lost since metrosexual generation came along. He is head of household, his wife and children respect him not out if fear but by wisdom and rational thought. He lives in the moment as riding requires that frame of mind. He believes in freedom to express his rights whether 2nd amendment, speech religion. Etc.
He doesn't wait for 911 or police to show up if he sees a crime in progress but runs to it while others are running away. Since there are many POSUERS out there who just had a midlife crisis and now decide on a hog instead of the corvette. ..it's easy to slot the wannabes Rolex riders who like to talk big in bars and ride with cuts of their local HOG chapter....joke. a old school biker can be a lone wolf or part of a club but he doesnt try and impress anyone, doesn't care what you think of him. A true blue biker is the last representation of an in your face outlaw. (Not in the criminal) sense. One thing about a man like this is, he will respect you if you have respect. Stupid questions get ignored, if he is a 3 piece club member don't wave...he won't wave back at you. While general public sees this as rude or criminal, remember there is a world microcosm in the lifestyle that adheres to adheres strict moral code..break it and there are consequences. Freedom to ride and enjoy t he experience and knowledge of the mmachine your riding and how to maintain it is the definition of a true blue biker.

reply

I've ridden motorcycles for 30 years, Harleys for 15. I've owned shovels, evos and fatheads. I used to worry about what 'bikers' thought...it seems one has the choice to look 'too much' like a biker (i.e. wannabe), which brings scorn, or like a 'wannabe rolex' weekend warrior, which also brings scorn. I no longer care, wear what I want, and don't care what anyone thinks. But by your last sentence i guess i'm a true blue biker after all.

reply

Ricky Roger that...you got my vote (for what it's worth) shiny side up rubber down....

reply

[deleted]

There you go again, I kept it civil and intellectual, and you want to act tough like a manchild. I originally asked a valid question relevant to the thread and made a simple observation. You replied with your tough guy patronizing act and I still elaborated with respect and without running my mouth but with reasoning and logic. I wasn't sure before if your first post's tone was just your general demeanor or not but that "running my mouth" line in your last post was the last straw. What "bs" was in my original post exactly that made you come at me with attitude? It doesn't matter now and you'll know why by the time you're done reading this one.

The original context of the amount of deviation from the true account is irrelevant now because you can't seem to differentiate between a true account book->TV representation of mostly criminal bikers versus a true biker, one who lives for the road and its freedom and you yourself defined above. You're talking about two different types of people, unless the same guys who'll teach me a lesson are going to be pulling over to lend me a hand with my car troubles while committing crimes on the side.

A brother will be there when chips are down (some guys have regular lives and jobs just as you do), don't break any big laws (speeding maybe ) and if you ever break down guess who will pull over and help if you look lost? Yup a biker...


This show wasn't about that type of brother, only ones that were or came close were the old timer OG with the shop, Kid and ultimately Falco, ironically. And no its not just semantics, its different types of behaviors that define you and criminal is not always synonymous with biker, so which one are you defending exactly? The criminal element that one would actually despise if they were really a true biker because it insults what it purely entails? Again, I'm not talking about the true old/ new school biker but the criminal lowlifes that happen to be bikers that you don't seem to want to acknowledge exist, unless you were one at some point in which case it would all make sense. Only one I see running their mouth here is you, taking personal offense to a niche segment of a group's portrayal to the point of nitpicking details.

By "lucky" you will not end up getting physically educated for the insult.
While you consider that an insult, I consider that calling it like it is. If you were truly as adamant as standing behind that principle, you would've recognized that. If you were able to call out bs, you would've agreed with me for doing the same.

reply

@ dsatchmo, nailed it buddy. Except for one thing. My dude is a P and showers twice a day, at least...LOL But, yes, he's a rarity.

reply

This is awesome and you definitely nailed it on each talking point. I read the book and know for a fact that it is filled with half truths and some flat out lies. The really sad part is that people believe everything shown on TV and take it as gospel.

#6 on your list is especially true. I won't say what club members actually say about it but no way in hell is an old lady going to give members names and other info out to a stranger in a bar. NOT GONNA HAPPEN

reply

Right on...good to know there are other guys out there with half a brain and knkw the difference between fiction and the real world

reply

Wow. Mr negative. This show is looking really good considering their are only a few characters in it. I hope they bring more real people into it as it seems strange the rest of the gang are treated like random extras.

I had high hopes for this after the disappointing end of SOA. It's good they've gone for a gritty more believable approach. try having an imagination and losing yourself in the show a bit. No story is complete without our own imagination immersing itself into that universe. You seem to be lacking that!

reply

Dangleros,
I'm all for entertainment, if I take the kids to Disneyland I signed up for that experience.
If I turn on a daytime soap opera that's what I expect to see and (my imagination can run free) haha...
But- when a cable network calling itself "HISTORY" channel decides to to do a re-enactment of an undercover operation which a snitch saves himself by conjuring up half truths and save serves it up to me telling me it's FACT...yeah I have a problem with that.
Contrary to your beliefs, some people don't need the "fantasy" you describe, they just create and live their lives.
Suggestions...Google the aging rebel if you really want to know the truth about "the life". And as it goes...you treat me well...I'll treat you better.

reply

It's Sergeant at Arms, not Sergeant of Arms.

reply

Now I haven't finished watching the show, but I did read his book (along with Jay Dobbins, Billy Queens and a couple books about the Hells Angels in BC and Quebec). Some of the things that happen seem a little incredulous. The biggest thing is the ATF even wanting him to go under and try and infiltrate the Vagos. If he was such a drug kingpin as he claims, you would think a) the DEA would find him more useful in the drug world and b) he is unbelievable as a biker.

I happen to know real 1%ers and the actor playing Falco looks nothing like them. I think History is trying to attract the female audience that watched Sons of Anarchy rather than look like Charles Falco, which this guy playing him is too clean cut compared to the real guy.

Now from what I read in the book, it is true to Falco's version of the details (whether true or not is another story) that he was made a prospect without a bike. Though if I remember right, the book had his prospecting to not become official until he got a bike.

I realize it is true in 1% MCs that you have to sew the rockers, logos and flashes on your cut yourself. But the guys I happen to know, I doubt they could sew. It always amuses me on biker shows that they can easily sew. The ones I know would probably take a stapler to it and then get their old lady to sew it on for them.

All the same, despite some of the screwiness of the story, isn't bad. Really, had this aired before Sons of Anarchy ever aired, it would be just fine as a television show. The problem is everyone now compares every show about outlaw bikers to SOA. It is like comparing a nice painting to the Mona Lisa. Of course it will pale in comparison, but on its own merits it isn't bad.

If you're looking for a show that seemed quite realistic, though not rooted in any true story, I would check out a CBC production from around 2002 called the Last Chapter. From the stories I read about the Quebec Rock Machine/Hells Angels wars, this one is fairly accurate.

reply

I love shows like this, if only to read the threads and inevitable ridiculous comments. While I can ride, I'm no biker; but I did have a housemate in Orlando for a few years who was an Outlaw, and he'd get a kick out of these threads.

I know exactly what he'd say about some of these Billy Bad*** internet tough guy clowns and all the "snitch" comments; he'd call them obvious poseurs... he just wouldn't say it that politely.

There are more inaccurate statements in these threads than on the entire show; but countering them all would be tiresome, and worse, a waste of time... know-it-alls never own up.

Anyway, pretty entertaining show if you don't get too wrapped up in all the details.

reply

Yeah, I read Queen's book too. Really interesting.
I agree with the OP. That does not mean I didnt like the show. But most of the OP's points were valid.

I think he meant the points to be more humorous than critical. I, mean, you just got to laugh, right?

reply