MovieChat Forums > Damien (2016) Discussion > Now the devil and the anti-christ are go...

Now the devil and the anti-christ are good guys


After the vegitarian vampires drinking from blood bags not killing people, the werewolfs trying to contain themselves locking themselves away during full moon, now we have the ultimate underdog!
The devil (Lucifer) and the anti-christ (Damien) are good guys with father issues who are falsly blamed for being bad and do not want to bring the Apocalypse.
Uuuuuh what is this trend that has been going on the last years in Hollywood?
Are they trying to make us root for the "monsters", and the villains for some reason?
Let the bad guys be bad guys!

reply

The have been anti-heroes and sympathetic villains for generations, whether supernatural or not. The problem these days (which I don't see in Damien) is that many stories completely take away any element of threat.

reply

You should check out that lame-ass show Once Upon a Time. Every evil character ever becomes redeemed and no one ever stays dead.

Next Seasons A&E lineup:

The Hitler and Pol-Pot Mystery Hour (they are brought back from the dead to solve crimes against the innocent and gain redemption)

The Stalin Chronicles

Ivan the Terrible's Dance Party

Genghis Khan, Fashion Patrol


And just wait until the series finale of Bates Motel next year, when Norman starts drinking green tea to calm himself down and becomes a pacifist florist instead of running the motel.


reply


Ivan the Terrible's Dance Party


There were those old Russian films Ivan the Terrible (parts I and II). They made him seem sympathetic, and there was indeed a lot of dancing in part II, which was the weaker one.

______

I also read a book last year about Genghis Khan, also, which was by an American scholar who has spent a huge amount of time in Mongolia and other parts of Asia studying the conqueror's history. I forget the title. It might have been "Genghis Kahn and the Making of the Modern World." I completely forget the author's name.

There was supposedly a book found in an old Chinese archive which was about his life, but was written in code except for a brief introduction to each section. The code was apparently broken, and the book tells the story of a man whose career as a warrior began as an attempt keep his small tribe which lived in the verge of extinction safe and not starving to death.

Much of the story told in the Chinese book goes along with oral traditions about him and has a certain credibility because the accounts don't make him out to be a superman. It admits that he killed his brother. It records his fear of dogs. He had a deep love and attachment for his mother (like Norman!) and his first wife, which to a modern person seems like a compliment, but could have been seen as unmanly back then.

According to this author, his victories weren't because of great brutality, but because of the skill his people had at archery and horsemanship. Once he acquired enough horses, his whole army was light cavalry and his soldiers used very long-range bows, allowing them to ride around at high speeds showering the enemy with arrows for as long as it took to win (or escaping quickly if necessary, still doing a great deal of damage with few losses).

People from more technologically advanced cultures who sided with him brought knowledge of siege machinery, primitive explosives and flammable liquids making cities easy targets.

The book's controversial premise is that he was in many ways a modern man at heart, instituting paper money, respecting diplomatic immunity, tolerating all religions, promoting trade between Europe and Asia, etc.

While it was a fascinating book, and may have a lot of truth to it, the author seemed kind of obsessed with Genghis Khan, the glory of the empires in China and India founded by his descendants and the need to always portray him positively.

His friendship with Mongolian scholars and cultural figures who are proud of their past might had lead him to always see story from their side and unconvincingly smooth over some really horrible things as well as obvious flaws in their method of empire-building. It's particularly absurd when he tries to put a positive spin on the Mongols' failed attempt to conquer Japan.

But then, the idea of the Khan as evil for evil's sake and lists of atrocities are all people generally know, so it was interesting to see another point of view.

reply

Yeah I've seen it
I liked the last episode where Regina said she is still struggling with the evil inside of her and she hates doing the right thing, but if she gives into the darkness she will lose the people she loves
And I liked it when Rumple said to Belle "well that's me, I am the dark one and I love the power, don't try to change me"
But I agree that it's a lame-ass show

reply

I liked the last episode where Regina said she is still struggling with the evil inside of her and she hates doing the right thing, but if she gives into the darkness she will lose the people she loves
And I liked it when Rumple said to Belle "well that's me, I am the dark one and I love the power, don't try to change me"
But I agree that it's a lame-ass show


fully agree with every word. not everyone is redeemable. patently absurd - this is part of what makes OUAT a children's program. the moments where regina and gold admit their true nature are the few REDEEMING moments. but there's not much fantasy on tv, and Shannara is even worse, so what can fantasy lovers do when GoT's 10 episodes are aired?

reply

i really thought that damien was not the anti-christ untill the last episode. apparently it was required for damien to accept this (and speak the necessary ritual phrase) for him to BECOME the anti-christ. we don't know yet how he will be as the anti-christ.

reply

There would be no point for a show if he wasn't the anti-christ
There will be an internal fight inside him, good versus evil, he wants to do good, but his instincts are evil, plus every time he is threatened somebody gets hurt so he will learn to control that too
Eventualy he will become a good anti-christ and stop the Apocalypse
At least that's what I think will happen
Which is really really lame and funny
I hope I am wrong
I want to see the real anti-christ and s**t my pants, like the original omen movies

reply

There are telling you things are not always black and white. The good guys sometimes go too far and bad guys can sometimes display humanity and compassion.

In bible God is the good guy yet he's destroyed the world with a flood, destroyed entire cities because the inhabitants didn't listen. There are many instances where he has unleashed his wrath because man refuse to heed his warnings.

If these shows make you challenge certain assumptions id say they've done their job

reply

[deleted]

and maybe you feel intelligent when you insult other people so I won't even bother replying

reply

I am not a believer
But yeah, if I see the bible as a fairy tail, God was cruel yes
The god of the old testament not the new one
It's interesting to see some internal fight in the anti-christ too
But I hope that eventually he will give into the darkness
Like in the omen movies
But I don't think that will happen here

reply

Well we can always hope they do the right thing in the end with Damien. After all, it is the same network as Bates Motel, and in the beginning of that series, it seemed like they were sort of making Norman Bates out to be a sympathetic character, but not any more thankfully.

reply

I am not a believer


It doesn't matter if you're not a believer in Him - He's a believer in you! Don't you feel better about everything now?

reply

In other words, everyone gets a trophy, welcome to the world of Entitlement. Next up Pedophiles aren't really bad, they are only misunderstood, followed by Not all Serial Killers are bad, some just want to be liked. We already have transgender/gay is normal and getting poor grades in school is now a disease ADD and kids who aren't special or talented are now gifted. The world is definitely being challenged alright. Now pour some motor oil on them pancakes, yummy.

reply

where in any of the bible does it say the devil is bad ?

"devil" is catholic propaganda and doesnt appear in the bible even once. "shaitan" or satan translation means adversary. the serpent punishes evil doers. the devils biggest sin was giving mankind knowledge (ignorance is bliss) and for this, he is forsaken by humanity? ungrateful peasants.

reply

There's nothing to say the anti-christ was not a good guy to begin with. Yes, in the Bible Satan is mentioned many times as once being one of the highest angels until he was cast out. So he was once a good "guy".
I don't think it's as much as wanting us to root for them as much as understanding them more(that is as much as tv will do that). Plus we love a good villain. Come on, did you not root for Gamera against Godzilla? *this is for those of us old enough to remember the oldies.

reply

To be fair, in Supernatural, Lucifer being evil wasn't his fault, daddy made him that way and made it worst by being a deadbeat dad. So Satan isn't evil, he just has daddy issues.

reply

I couldn't agree more! The Antichrist struggling through moral issues had me laughing my head off. Just let the guy be evil! That's his job!

reply